2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms) Forum

[Anonymous User]

I found last year's thread really useful when I was going through OCI. Now since I'm just a bored SA, I thought I'd see if any rising 2Ls have questions about the process. For starters, here's some background info on Texas firms, and a few personal tips. Others please feel free to disagree and/or chime in.

Largest Firms in Texas*
*Based on # of attorneys in Texas, not firm-wide
1. Fulbright Jaworksi (or Norton Rose Fulbright, whatever)
2. Vinson & Elkins
3. Baker Botts
4. Haynes and Boone
5. Jackson Walker
6. Andrews Kurth
7. Bracewell Guiliani
8. Locke Lord
9. Winstead
10. Thompson Knight
11. Gardere
12. Strasburger & Price
13. Jones Day
14. Akin Gump
15. Kelly Hart & Hallman

2013/2012 Summer Associate Hiring:
Firm - # of 2013 SAs / # of 2012 SAs. Note, these are Texas-wide numbers. Office specific numbers should be available through NALP.
1. Fulbright Jaworksi - 56 / 66
2. Vinson & Elkins - 76 / 87
3. Baker Botts - 66 / 80
4. Haynes and Boone - 46 / 47
5. Jackson Walker - 23 / 20
6. Andrews Kurth 40 / 43
7. Bracewell Guiliani - 46 / 37
8. Locke Lord - 44 / 42
9. Winstead - 15 / 12
10. Thompson Knight - 17 / 18
11. Gardere - 7 / 10
12. Strasburger & Price - 12 / 8
13. Jones Day - no info
14. Akin Gump - 11 / 14
15. Kelly Hart & Hallman - 8 / 5

In regards to these numbers, they reflect some of the current hiring trends. You'll notice some of firms had much smaller classes even though the firm itself is larger (for example Fulbright and Jackson Walker vs. Locke Lord and Bracewell). While Texas firms have traditionally split summer, more firms are moving towards only having 1st half classes. Additionally, many of those firms that have typically had a large # of SAs are starting to take smaller classes (ex: Baker Botts going from 80 to 66). That reflects a shift in some firms' decision-making process. They're becoming more selective on the front-end, taking smaller classes, and maintaining high offer rates. I'm sure people can debate about that more in-depth but I just wanted to initially address some of those trends.

2012 2L Offer Rates
Firm: # of 2012 SAs/# of offers given - 2012 Offer Rate / 2011 Offer Rate
1. Fulbright Jaworksi: 49/40 - 81.6% / 90%
2. Vinson & Elkins: 71/65 - 91.5% / 94.7%
3. Baker Botts: 67/59 - 88.1% / 89.8%
4. Haynes and Boone: 41/38 - 92.7% / 75%
5. Jackson Walker: 17/14 - 82.4% / 75%
6. Andrews Kurth: 32/30 - 93.8% / 84%
7. Bracewell Guiliani: 27/24 - 88.9% / 78.6%
8. Locke Lord: 25/23 - 92% / 88.2%
9. Winstead: 12/10 - 83.3% / 71.4%
10. Thompson Knight: 18/14 - 77.8% / 77.8%
11. Gardere: 10/5 - 50% / 100%
12. Strasburger & Price: no info
13. Jones Day: 26/26 - 100% / 87%
14. Akin Gump: 11/10 - 90.9% / 92.9%
15. Kelly Hart & Hallman: 5/4 - 80% / N/A

Note: The prior table includes 1L SAs, one of the reasons why the numbers might not match up.

Generic advice:
- Make sure you've got your suits/clothes squared away before hand. Take inventory and make sure everything fits, matches, etc. Get a haircut. Little details go a long way to making a good first impression. You don't want to be the person who forgot their good tie or who didn't realize their dress shirt was stained until 2 min. before your first interview.
- Print extra copies of your resume, transcript, writing sample, anything you may possibly want to give them. Maybe your interviewer lost their copy of your resume. Maybe they didn't originally request a writing sample. Maybe they just want to see how prepared you are.
- If you worked at a firm, judicial internship, or did any sort of hands-on litigation work during your 1L summer, make a case list that you can give them. 2L OCI isn't really the time to ask about conflicts but just it case, it shows that you're prepared. Better yet, it gives you a chance to show off some of your work/knowledge. I only got to use mine three times over the course of two weeks but it was worth the 5 minutes it took to prepare and print.
- This might be a bit too late but review your writing samples. If yours is anything like mine, it's crap. Mine was the memo from my 1L fall and when I read back over it the following July I was embarrassed (but hey, you had 2 months of law school when you wrote that, what do yo expect?). If it's too late to get another writing sample then just do a quick edit of your old one. Again, you probably won't need it if they haven't asked for it yet, but it's better to be prepared.
- DO YOUR RESEARCH. Use ChamberAssociates, Vault, Lexis litigation profiles, anything you can. You don't want to be the jerkoff asking the generic questions that your interviewers have heard four times in the past hour. Researcher your interviewers. If you have a common interest or outside connection, find a way to bring it up (but of course avoid saying "So I was stalking you online and saw...").

More Texas-specific advice:
Texas ties:
- If you have them, stress them. You love Texas, it's your home and you can't wait to get back to Dallas/Houston/San Antonio and start your family there. You didn't even know there were law offices north of the Red River. What the hell is "New York"? Go Cowboys/Texans/Spurs.
- If you don't have Texas ties, then find them. You have family here (doesn't matter that it's your second cousin living in El Paso). You came to UT because you want to live in Texas forever, and swore you'd never go back to your home state. Go Cowboys/Texans/Spurs.
Receptions:
- This was the subject that caused the most stress for me last year just because I didn't know the set-up. Generally, the large firms will have a reception either the evening before or after their interviews. Most are just general receptions; they'll probably be more students than attorneys. Keep your suit on. Stay long enough to talk to at least a couple attorneys, try to find the ones who interviewed you to make sure they remember you. Keep the conversation light, the interviewers just spent 6 hours talking to law students, they don't want your take on punitive damages, they'd rather talk about college football or reality tv.
- In terms of manners, just use overall common sense. Don't get too drunk.
- DO stay out. If the attorneys are going out after the reception and invite you along, go with them. For many attorneys these recruiting trips are a chance to have a good time on the firm's dime. You want them to remember you as someone who they can have a good time with, not just the man/woman in the 2:15-2:30 interview slot. I don't care that you have another interview tomorrow morning at 8:30. No excuses, play like a champion.
- Obviously, don't go to receptions for firms that you didn't have an interview with. However, if there is a general reception, just because your interviewer doesn't expressly mention it or tell you to come doesn't mean you should skip it. I had a friend last year who wouldn't go to a reception unless the interviewer expressly invited him themselves, bad idea. If you're unsure, call the recruiting coordinator and check.
- On that note, be nice to the recruiting coordinators. This will vary from firm to firm, but often times the recruiting coordinator is the person at the firm that you'll have the most direct contact with. You're stupid if you think you can be rude to them and it won't come up before the hiring committee.
- Dinners: Some firms will have invitation-only events. These may be based on grades (top 10% only, TLR only, etc.), or just on them extending invitations to people they like. Obviously, if you're not invited, don't go. That said, if you aren't invited it's not the end of the world. I know multiple people who ended up getting offers from firms that hadn't invited them to a private dinner the night before.

Lastly: OCI is an incredibly stressful and emotional process for many law students. When you experience failure, reach out to someone. I had one interview last year in particular that made me want to quit. Call a parent or loved one and talk it out, you'll get through it. Keep things in perspective, this isn't the last step to a job offer, there are plenty more opportunities to slip up or catch up. When you experience success, keep it to yourself, you don't need to rub it in the faces of fellow students. Just be there for each other. The other people at the receptions and outside interview rooms may seem like your competition for right now, but you're going to have to spend the next 2 years with them so don't be an asshole. Actually that's pretty good advice for all things OCI-related. Don't be an asshole.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for this. The data is great and the advice seems very sound.

I don't mean to derail the thread right off the bat, buuttt....

- Dinners: Some firms will have invitation-only events. These may be based on grades (top 10% only, TLR only, etc. ), or just on them extending invitations to people they like. .

Am I the only one who finds this practice obnoxious? It's one thing if they interviewed everyone during the day and then only invite those out later who they liked. It's quite another thing to essentially cut off access to your attorneys/recruiting for 80-90% of the class, based solely on grades, prior to any interview or reception at all. What seems particularly perverse about it is that top 10%/TLR are the exact students who need the least help securing employment. I wish the school would fight for its lower ranked students by pressuring employers to stop this practice. For what it's worth, I'm incoming TLR/top 10%.

[Mce252]

Thanks for this. The data is great and the advice seems very sound.

I don't mean to derail the thread right off the bat, buuttt....

- Dinners: Some firms will have invitation-only events. These may be based on grades (top 10% only, TLR only, etc. ), or just on them extending invitations to people they like. .

Am I the only one who finds this practice obnoxious? It's one thing if they interviewed everyone during the day and then only invite those out later who they liked. It's quite another thing to essentially cut off access to your attorneys/recruiting for 80-90% of the class, based solely on grades, prior to any interview or reception at all. What seems particularly perverse about it is that top 10%/TLR are the exact students who need the least help securing employment. I wish the school would fight for its lower ranked students by pressuring employers to stop this practice. For what it's worth, I'm incoming TLR/top 10%.

You're angry at the firm for giving attention to the highest ranked students with the best resumes? To be frank, any firm with a decent reputation couldn't care less about who needs help securing employment. It would make no sense economically to do otherwise.

[Anonymous User]

That 2013 number for Baker Botts firmwide is incorrect. There were 89 of us firmwide.

[Anonymous User]

That 2013 number for Baker Botts firmwide is incorrect. There were 89 of us firmwide.

OP here: those numbers are from Texas Lawyer/ALM and I believe it only includes the Texas offices. Does your 89 figure include out of state offices?

Am I the only one who finds this practice obnoxious? It's one thing if they interviewed everyone during the day and then only invite those out later who they liked. It's quite another thing to essentially cut off access to your attorneys/recruiting for 80-90% of the class, based solely on grades, prior to any interview or reception at all. What seems particularly perverse about it is that top 10%/TLR are the exact students who need the least help securing employment. I wish the school would fight for its lower ranked students by pressuring employers to stop this practice. For what it's worth, I'm incoming TLR/top 10%.

I don't think those interviews are intended as an opportunity for law students to appeal to the firm. It's a chance for the firm to recruit the top students.

[Anonymous User]

That 2013 number for Baker Botts firmwide is incorrect. There were 89 of us firmwide.

OP here: those numbers are from Texas Lawyer/ALM and I believe it only includes the Texas offices. Does your 89 figure include out of state offices?

Those numbers are firmwide SAs. For at least a few big firms.

[Anonymous User]

That 2013 number for Baker Botts firmwide is incorrect. There were 89 of us firmwide.

OP here: those numbers are from Texas Lawyer/ALM and I believe it only includes the Texas offices. Does your 89 figure include out of state offices?

Those numbers are firmwide SAs. For at least a few big firms.

Then take it up with ALM. Or provide correct numbers and I'll update the original.

[Anonymous User]

BB Anon here again. You said that the numbers you posted were firmwide. My figure is the firmwide number for 2013. If you meant just Texas you should probably edit your post.

Seems like a good thread though.

ETA: If you want just Texas numbers. Austin - 9; Houston - 40; Dallas - 17

[Anonymous User]

Ahh I see what you're saying now. Edit made, thanks for the catch.

[Nova]

Checking in

[Anonymous User]

Ouch, that Gardere offer rate. I remember their previous year's offer rate being something similarly awful.

[Anonymous User]

BB and V&E's class size and school breakdown can be found here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=205050

[Anonymous User]

Looking forward to Monday's interview release. Do people usually get more interviews the second time the interviews/schedules are released? Do you recommend accepting all of the interviews offered or is there a chance of too many being too draining? (I don't think I'll be in this situation, just curious)

[AFS]

Looking forward to Monday's interview release. Do people usually get more interviews the second time the interviews/schedules are released? Do you recommend accepting all of the interviews offered or is there a chance of too many being too draining? (I don't think I'll be in this situation, just curious)

Yeah, is there a difference between the two releases? I don't think it mentioned anything about this in the PDF they sent out.

[harbin]

I got a few alternates... are those treated any differently than preselects come interview time?

[BVest]

A question about "Alternate" slots:

CSO describes it on their OCI website thusly:

Alternate: you have been selected as an alternate and may be able to receive an interview slot if one becomes available. You can verify that an alternate interview has been awarded by clicking on the [Scheduled Interviews] tab.

So I have an alternate slot and it has a time assigned to it: 1:40 pm - 2:00 pm. Does that mean I actually have the interview lined up, or am I still waiting for something to become available? Mostly I'm confused because we haven't had the first cancellation period. The OCS website is ambiguous.

EDIT: Nevermind. Found this in the PDF, looks like if you have a time listed, then you are scheduled.

If a student is listed as an alternate for an employer, he or she may be scheduled with that employer if space opens up on the employer’s schedule . . . . If you are selected by an employer as an alternate, your status will not change to preselect if you are scheduled for the interview.

[BVest]

Looking forward to Monday's interview release. Do people usually get more interviews the second time the interviews/schedules are released? Do you recommend accepting all of the interviews offered or is there a chance of too many being too draining? (I don't think I'll be in this situation, just curious)

Yeah, is there a difference between the two releases? I don't think it mentioned anything about this in the PDF they sent out.

I think the only difference is that the second release fills the slots opened up by cancellations from the first release.

[blackmooncreeping]

Looking forward to Monday's interview release. Do people usually get more interviews the second time the interviews/schedules are released? Do you recommend accepting all of the interviews offered or is there a chance of too many being too draining? (I don't think I'll be in this situation, just curious)

+1 on wondering whether people usually get more interviews after the first decline period.

Edit: Also, if you have a lottery awarded interview vs. a preselect is it safe to assume that chances are basically zero for a cb?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know what the deal is with 3L OCI? I got a few invites today, applied for the hell of it.

[Longhorn88]

I got a few alternates last year, only 1 I think turned into an interview and that was after OCI had already started. It was towards the very end of the week so I'm guessing there were some in-week cancellations.

As for the lottery/pre-select issue, it's good to be aware of it but it's not hopeless. I got my first-half offer from a lottery interview.

[Anonymous User]

I got a few alternates last year, only 1 I think turned into an interview and that was after OCI had already started. It was towards the very end of the week so I'm guessing there were some in-week cancellations.

As for the lottery/pre-select issue, it's good to be aware of it but it's not hopeless. I got my first-half offer from a lottery interview.

Somehow I've already had 5 of my "alternates" get scheduled down as interviews.

[AFS]

So I noticed I've been scheduled for back-to-back interviews with one being from 9:00-9:20 and then one from 9:20-9:40. How do I handle making sure that I'm not late to the second interview? Is this going to be a problem?

[Longhorn88]

So I noticed I've been scheduled for back-to-back interviews with one being from 9:00-9:20 and then one from 9:20-9:40. How do I handle making sure that I'm not late to the second interview? Is this going to be a problem?

No not really, happens all the time. Just touch base w/ the recruiting coordinators and let them know what's up.

[Anonymous User]

So I noticed I've been scheduled for back-to-back interviews with one being from 9:00-9:20 and then one from 9:20-9:40. How do I handle making sure that I'm not late to the second interview? Is this going to be a problem?

No not really, happens all the time. Just touch base w/ the recruiting coordinators and let them know what's up.

A quick email will suffice. I had several such conflicts last year, and was never late to a single one. That said, you should make sure you prep accordingly: you should have water so that you can talk for 20 minutes, then talk for 20 minutes more.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know what the deal is with Latham Watkins? I've heard they throw out OCIs to nearly everyone and then barely give any call backs. Anyone know if this is true?