I Want to QUIT

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NYstate
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Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am

Re: I Want to QUIT

Postby NYstate » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:28 pm

Yea, OP, I didn't mean to pressure you I to looking to report your boss for ethical violations. I see no way in which doing so benefits you. I meant to only provide a resource if you felt you needed one.

I do not think you should report your employer.

johndhi
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Re: I Want to QUIT

Postby johndhi » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:25 pm

NYstate wrote:Yea, OP, I didn't mean to pressure you I to looking to report your boss for ethical violations. I see no way in which doing so benefits you. I meant to only provide a resource if you felt you needed one.

I do not think you should report your employer.


Not trying to derail this thread, but can't let this post just sit here. Whether or not you see reporting a serious ethical violation as a personal benefit, lawyers who know another lawyer has committed an ethical violation have an obligation to report that violation when the violation raises a "substantial question as to that lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness or fitness as a lawyer in other respects."

(http://www.americanbar.org/groups/profe ... nduct.html)

That's somewhat qualified - maybe OP doesn't know this is happening, or maybe it isn't quite so serious (or maybe the information is client-confidential and protected from disclosure, see the third part of the rule) - but it's still an obligation, and you have committed an ethical violation if you don't report it.

Just wanted to set the record straight. We're the ones regulating our own profession and the only way it's going to stay that way is if we actually know and follow the rules.

Sorry to derail OP's thread. OP, I've been in a similar situation before and it can cause you to wonder whether the problem is with you (am I not a hard worker? am I a bad employee?) etc. But that isn't the case. It's probably less of an issue at this point for you - you already went to law school and know you're a hard worker - but just want to warn you of the potential pitfall of thinking it's somehow your fault. Maybe while you're looking for another job, another thing you could do is try to get work from another partner and try to wean yourself off of this guy?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: I Want to QUIT

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:35 pm

Of course, as we all learned in professional responsibility or whatever class you took, there's morals, and there's professional ethics, and they're not the same. OP may well be seeing activities that don't sit well with his/her personal sense of how to treat clients, but aren't ethical violations.

NYstate
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Re: I Want to QUIT

Postby NYstate » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:54 pm

johndhi wrote:
NYstate wrote:Yea, OP, I didn't mean to pressure you I to looking to report your boss for ethical violations. I see no way in which doing so benefits you. I meant to only provide a resource if you felt you needed one.

I do not think you should report your employer.


Not trying to derail this thread, but can't let this post just sit here. Whether or not you see reporting a serious ethical violation as a personal benefit, lawyers who know another lawyer has committed an ethical violation have an obligation to report that violation when the violation raises a "substantial question as to that lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness or fitness as a lawyer in other respects."

(http://www.americanbar.org/groups/profe ... nduct.html)

That's somewhat qualified - maybe OP doesn't know this is happening, or maybe it isn't quite so serious (or maybe the information is client-confidential and protected from disclosure, see the third part of the rule) - but it's still an obligation, and you have committed an ethical violation if you don't report it.

Just wanted to set the record straight. We're the ones regulating our own profession and the only way it's going to stay that way is if we actually know and follow the rules.

Sorry to derail OP's thread. OP, I've been in a similar situation before and it can cause you to wonder whether the problem is with you (am I not a hard worker? am I a bad employee?) etc. But that isn't the case. It's probably less of an issue at this point for you - you already went to law school and know you're a hard worker - but just want to warn you of the potential pitfall of thinking it's somehow your fault. Maybe while you're looking for another job, another thing you could do is try to get work from another partner and try to wean yourself off of this guy?


I was going off OP saying he didn't think his employer committed malpractice. I trust OPs instincts in this.

I know this is derailing: but do you honestly believe lawyers are reporting their employers for stuff that isn't clearly a violation? I mean, doctors make errors all the time and don't get reported by their peers. I don't believe that people report lawyers they work for unless they feel they are going to be caught up in an ethics scandal themselves. Maybe after they have found another job, they will report, but not while they are still working for the person. Do you really think that lawyers do a good job of policing this profession? I don't.

Anonymous User
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Re: I Want to QUIT

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:31 am

OP.

Ethics are a sticky issue - I think that not all attorneys are clear on what is and is not in violation of an express rule, though we all have our hunches. I have friends who work with alcoholics (allegedly) and don't say anything to anyone. Certain firms in my market have reputations for highly unethical methods of winning, but those firms are still doing well financially. Because you can have a hunch that what someone is doing is "wrong," but there may not come the thought of, oh, the legal community should be informed of this.

All that aside, my boss's lack of morals (from my POV, whether by the books or not) is not the primary reason for my misery here at work (though it is a reason). It's him. It's being berated constantly. Living in fear all of the time because he is hostile day in and day out. It's being thrown under the bus every time anything doesn't go his way. And I work my tail off, I really do, because at the end of the day, I do like making clients happy. The abusive environment just makes me so, so down.

I'm pushing hard for another job. I just don't know what to do, what I will do when I reach the end of my rope. Will I burst out crying here and then get fired? Will I get up and walk out and never come back? I am afraid of these possibilities. I'm still hoping the chance to move on amicably comes before it reaches a much worse end.

Still praying every day, every night. Sigh.

NYstate
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Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am

Re: I Want to QUIT

Postby NYstate » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP.

Ethics are a sticky issue - I think that not all attorneys are clear on what is and is not in violation of an express rule, though we all have our hunches. I have friends who work with alcoholics (allegedly) and don't say anything to anyone. Certain firms in my market have reputations for highly unethical methods of winning, but those firms are still doing well financially. Because you can have a hunch that what someone is doing is "wrong," but there may not come the thought of, oh, the legal community should be informed of this.

All that aside, my boss's lack of morals (from my POV, whether by the books or not) is not the primary reason for my misery here at work (though it is a reason). It's him. It's being berated constantly. Living in fear all of the time because he is hostile day in and day out. It's being thrown under the bus every time anything doesn't go his way. And I work my tail off, I really do, because at the end of the day, I do like making clients happy. The abusive environment just makes me so, so down.

I'm pushing hard for another job. I just don't know what to do, what I will do when I reach the end of my rope. Will I burst out crying here and then get fired? Will I get up and walk out and never come back? I am afraid of these possibilities. I'm still hoping the chance to move on amicably comes before it reaches a much worse end.

Still praying every day, every night. Sigh.



No one can work well when they are being berated. Is there a way to talk to your boss in a calmer moment and tell him you do better work with constructive criticism?
Otherwise, make it a game in your head. Or create a bingo game with his favorite phrases. Find a way to expect it and ignore it because he always talks this way. Or else find a way to let it roll off your back.
You need to come up with a good plan to cope with this treatment and not let it undermine you and your self-confidence. People have learned to cope with this kind of treatment. It isn't easy but I think you can do it.

RodneyRuxin
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Re: I Want to QUIT

Postby RodneyRuxin » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:07 pm

+1 to all of NYstate's post.

There are ways to put up with a shitty environment while you search for a new job--and I think everyone's done it.

Do you have friends in the office?

I've been in this situation and I just turned everything into a game and stayed above it all (no matter how arrogant it sounds). Just know that you know better, and kind of pity your boss for exactly what he is.

I think you're smart enough to not let this come off in your interactions with him, but know, in your mind, that you're on your way out of this shithole and that your boss is out of his mind.

It kind of reminds me of The Art of War. Here's a quote:

“Engage people with what they expect; it is what they are able to discern and confirms their projections. It settles them into predictable patterns of response, occupying their minds while you wait for the extraordinary moment — that which they cannot anticipate.”

Anonymous User
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Re: I Want to QUIT

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:55 pm

I'm still at my firm.

I have tried to remain positive about the job as I look for other work - I am getting legal experience and I can eat and make rent - but I've hit a really bad bout of insomnia lately and am considering therapy to help me deal with the anxiety I face working in this environment.

I have applied to all openings I see in my area. It is just so hard to get an interview - I forgot how bad the legal market was, but those memories from last year are coming back. It kind of makes me feel worthless, if no one else wants to interview me. My academic credentials are not bad, either, so I just don't know what's going on.

I know I am lucky to have a job and feel selfish wanting another one.

Has anyone used therapy in my situation with success (meaning, could remain in abusive work environment but maintain mental health)? I don't want to emotionally fall apart and lose my mind or slip into serious depression because of this job.

I just don't know what to do from here on both the job search and the therapy front.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Edit - and thank you, above responders, for the kind advice. I do have friends in the office. One is like me (it's an unspoken understanding), but he was let go not too long ago. It has made this situation less bearable. The other has been here a while and seems immune to everything and letting any yelling or berating slide and has gotten good at just caving to all demands all the time (as have I if I have to be honest).

I am working on keeping the mental distance - there is me as a person and there is this job and they are separate. That's really how I am trying to view it lately.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NYstate
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Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am

Re: I Want to QUIT

Postby NYstate » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:58 pm

You are entitled to a job where you are treated with respect.
I think therapy is a great idea. You need emotional and psychological support.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: I Want to QUIT

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:36 pm

I agree - therapy can be really helpful; it can be really nice just to have a professional tell you what you're experiencing is completely normal. Even though what you're experiencing is situational, help coping with that is totally credited.

(Also, if you try therapy and don't click with the first therapist, keep looking - not all therapists work for all people, and it's not uncommon for the first therapist not to be a great fit. Doesn't mean it can't be helpful for you.)

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: I Want to QUIT

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:49 pm

This thread reminded me of this for some reason: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNQPLewGR9k&t=00m31s

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20160810
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Re: I Want to QUIT

Postby 20160810 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:55 pm

Just quit tomorrow. Seriously. You'll figure something else out. Go on umnemployment if you have to.

Void
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Re: I Want to QUIT

Postby Void » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:29 pm

SBL wrote:Just quit tomorrow. Seriously. You'll figure something else out. Go on umnemployment if you have to.


This. Your current emotional situation is only going to hurt your job search, and it might even get worse over time. Get yourself out of that nightmare and re-center yourself. Your mental health and self respect aren't worth whatever you're earning. You'll look back in 2 years and wonder why the hell you stayed this long.

NYstate
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Re: I Want to QUIT

Postby NYstate » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:31 pm

Void wrote:
SBL wrote:Just quit tomorrow. Seriously. You'll figure something else out. Go on umnemployment if you have to.


This. Your current emotional situation is only going to hurt your job search, and it might even get worse over time. Get yourself out of that nightmare and re-center yourself. Your mental health and self respect aren't worth whatever you're earning. You'll look back in 2 years and wonder why the hell you stayed this long.


I agree. This job is not worth what it is doing to you.




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