How much does a 1L SA help?

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Anonymous User
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How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:29 am

Does it help at all in landing a 2L job, even if you are ranked near the median after 1L? Thank you all.

DMXdawg
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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby DMXdawg » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:46 am

Yes, it does help.

What level of firm did you 1L SA at? What school do you go to? What level of firms are you aiming for?

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unlicensedpotato
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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby unlicensedpotato » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:52 am

Does it actually help? I would think that getting a 1L SA was generally a result of having high grades, and the high grades would also benefit you in OCI. Do firms really think you get more substantive experience at a firm as a 1L summer than in other positions?

The most I could see is that, if you have an offer to come back, at least one firm has already shown they can stand you after 8 weeks.

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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:55 am

Midlaw NYC, Attend a TTT, and grades are not that great but I have recommendations from EPs, Non-EPs, and Associates. My goal is actually not so much to jump to a bigger firm, but possibly inhouse or something.

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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:57 am

Offer to come back is already on the table, I just don't enjoy the work that much.

unlicensedpotato wrote:Does it actually help? I would think that getting a 1L SA was generally a result of having high grades, and the high grades would also benefit you in OCI. Do firms really think you get more substantive experience at a firm as a 1L summer than in other positions?

The most I could see is that, if you have an offer to come back, at least one firm has already shown they can stand you after 8 weeks.

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hephaestus
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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby hephaestus » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:59 am

Anonymous User wrote:Midlaw NYC, Attend a TTT, and grades are not that great but I have recommendations from EPs, Non-EPs, and Associates. My goal is actually not so much to jump to a bigger firm, but possibly inhouse or something.

If you are at a TTT and have a 1L SA, I'd hold on tight. Many in house positions do not offer full time positions, even if they have a summer internship program.

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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:02 pm

thank you, I guess I need to change the way I am looking at it.

ImNoScar wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Midlaw NYC, Attend a TTT, and grades are not that great but I have recommendations from EPs, Non-EPs, and Associates. My goal is actually not so much to jump to a bigger firm, but possibly inhouse or something.

If you are at a TTT and have a 1L SA, I'd hold on tight. Many in house positions do not offer full time positions, even if they have a summer internship program.

sparty99
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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby sparty99 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does it help at all in landing a 2L job, even if you are ranked near the median after 1L? Thank you all.


I was ranked below-median and had a 1L job. I don't think it helped too much as I didn't get a lot of firm interviews. Had three call backs, no offers. Waitlisted at a firm. Got an in-house gig.

Your grades will matter the most unless you go to a T14 where firms will dip a little lower. I go to a T30. You will at least be able to talk about what its like at a firm, what you enjoyed about it, and that your transition to ZYZ firm will be smooth, since you have done it. You will also sound more credible. "I really enjoyed contracts or litigation or transactional work." blah blah blah.

sparty99
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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby sparty99 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Midlaw NYC, Attend a TTT, and grades are not that great but I have recommendations from EPs, Non-EPs, and Associates. My goal is actually not so much to jump to a bigger firm, but possibly inhouse or something.


WHy do you want to work in-house? You know they basically don't hire law school graduates directly?

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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:07 pm

Thank you, I was waitlisted and then turned down by a T14 this week. I am hoping to break into T30 and should be receiving the rest of the decisions soon. I wonder what the policy is regarding transferring credits and GPA etc.

sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does it help at all in landing a 2L job, even if you are ranked near the median after 1L? Thank you all.


I was ranked below-median and had a 1L job. I don't think it helped too much as I didn't get a lot of firm interviews. Had three call backs, no offers. Waitlisted at a firm. Got an in-house gig.

Your grades will matter the most unless you go to a T14 where firms will dip a little lower. I go to a T30. You will at least be able to talk about what its like at a firm, what you enjoyed about it, and that your transition to ZYZ firm will be smooth, since you have done it. You will also sound more credible. "I really enjoyed contracts or litigation or transactional work." blah blah blah.

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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:07 pm

Not a big fan of the billable hour race, although I broke the quota my first month as an SA.

sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Midlaw NYC, Attend a TTT, and grades are not that great but I have recommendations from EPs, Non-EPs, and Associates. My goal is actually not so much to jump to a bigger firm, but possibly inhouse or something.


WHy do you want to work in-house? You know they basically don't hire law school graduates directly?

sparty99
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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby sparty99 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thank you, I was waitlisted and then turned down by a T14 this week. I am hoping to break into T30 and should be receiving the rest of the decisions soon. I wonder what the policy is regarding transferring credits and GPA etc.

sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does it help at all in landing a 2L job, even if you are ranked near the median after 1L? Thank you all.


I was ranked below-median and had a 1L job. I don't think it helped too much as I didn't get a lot of firm interviews. Had three call backs, no offers. Waitlisted at a firm. Got an in-house gig.

Your grades will matter the most unless you go to a T14 where firms will dip a little lower. I go to a T30. You will at least be able to talk about what its like at a firm, what you enjoyed about it, and that your transition to ZYZ firm will be smooth, since you have done it. You will also sound more credible. "I really enjoyed contracts or litigation or transactional work." blah blah blah.


Law school is not worth it at a T30, unless, assuming, you received a full-ride. I would retake and go to a T-14.

Anonymous User
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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:49 pm

In my experience, a 1L SA did not matter. People were competitive at the firms that their school/grades would indicate.

That said, you can get a 2L SA from your 1L firm and that can take the pressure off and make OCI easier.

envisciguy
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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby envisciguy » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:05 pm

sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Thank you, I was waitlisted and then turned down by a T14 this week. I am hoping to break into T30 and should be receiving the rest of the decisions soon. I wonder what the policy is regarding transferring credits and GPA etc.

sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does it help at all in landing a 2L job, even if you are ranked near the median after 1L? Thank you all.


I was ranked below-median and had a 1L job. I don't think it helped too much as I didn't get a lot of firm interviews. Had three call backs, no offers. Waitlisted at a firm. Got an in-house gig.

Your grades will matter the most unless you go to a T14 where firms will dip a little lower. I go to a T30. You will at least be able to talk about what its like at a firm, what you enjoyed about it, and that your transition to ZYZ firm will be smooth, since you have done it. You will also sound more credible. "I really enjoyed contracts or litigation or transactional work." blah blah blah.


Law school is not worth it at a T30, unless, assuming, you received a full-ride. I would retake and go to a T-14.


Did you read the OP's post? He's already in law school.

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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:31 pm

Any possibility that it might hurt to have a 1L SA when going more for "elite" firms for 2L SA (as opposed to doing gov 1L year or something?)

E.g. If the 1L firm did different work, or was less prestigious?

Maybe firms at OCI think you're a flight risk for bailing on the 1L firm?

Or is this just crazy?

Anonymous User
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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Any possibility that it might hurt to have a 1L SA when going more for "elite" firms for 2L SA (as opposed to doing gov 1L year or something?)

E.g. If the 1L firm did different work, or was less prestigious?

Maybe firms at OCI think you're a flight risk for bailing on the 1L firm?

Or is this just crazy?

No 1L job is 'prestigious.' They might consider you a flight risk if you split, though usually firms aren't bothered by people who go back to their 1L firms. They know you want them because you are interviewing with them. Overall it's not a big deal at all.

sparty99
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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby sparty99 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Any possibility that it might hurt to have a 1L SA when going more for "elite" firms for 2L SA (as opposed to doing gov 1L year or something?)

E.g. If the 1L firm did different work, or was less prestigious?

Maybe firms at OCI think you're a flight risk for bailing on the 1L firm?

Or is this just crazy?


This is real life. You shouldn't give a F*ck about prestige. Find a place where you can grow and build skills that will help you develop a career.

MoonDreamer
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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby MoonDreamer » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:13 pm

sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any possibility that it might hurt to have a 1L SA when going more for "elite" firms for 2L SA (as opposed to doing gov 1L year or something?)

E.g. If the 1L firm did different work, or was less prestigious?

Maybe firms at OCI think you're a flight risk for bailing on the 1L firm?

Or is this just crazy?


This is real life. You shouldn't give a F*ck about prestige. Find a place where you can grow and build skills that will help you develop a career.


What??? Prestige matters.

sparty99
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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby sparty99 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:17 am

MoonDreamer wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any possibility that it might hurt to have a 1L SA when going more for "elite" firms for 2L SA (as opposed to doing gov 1L year or something?)

E.g. If the 1L firm did different work, or was less prestigious?

Maybe firms at OCI think you're a flight risk for bailing on the 1L firm?

Or is this just crazy?


This is real life. You shouldn't give a F*ck about prestige. Find a place where you can grow and build skills that will help you develop a career.


What??? Prestige matters.


This is real life, bro. Go to a firm where you can succeed. That might be Weil Gosthal or some highly ranked Vault firm, but it might not. Those firms might let you go in a heart beat where you are jobless or you don't do work that will let you grow. Or you can choose a firm with strong financials, that has a reputation of treating people well, but isn't a Vault 200 firm, but is known to pay people well and provide good work that lets you grow as a lawyer.

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unlicensedpotato
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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby unlicensedpotato » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:39 am

sparty99 wrote:
This is real life, bro. Go to a firm where you can succeed. That might be Weil Gosthal or some highly ranked Vault firm, but it might not. Those firms might let you go in a heart beat where you are jobless or you don't do work that will let you grow. Or you can choose a firm with strong financials, that has a reputation of treating people well, but isn't a Vault 200 firm, but is known to pay people well and provide good work that lets you grow as a lawyer.


Even by TLS standards, you are very far off OP's topic. Clearly you were going to respond like this regardless of the question. There's no reason to push some anti prestige agenda here. As an aside, it's a very bold claim to say that you have to pass on the 200 "top" firms to find one with strong financials that treats people well.

Anonymous User wrote:Any possibility that it might hurt to have a 1L SA when going more for "elite" firms for 2L SA (as opposed to doing gov 1L year or something?)

E.g. If the 1L firm did different work, or was less prestigious?

Maybe firms at OCI think you're a flight risk for bailing on the 1L firm?

Or is this just crazy?


I can't see how having a 1L SA at a less prestigious firm would prevent you from going after "better" positions later. Firms aren't stupid and know that almost anyone would choose a paid SA over other positions. The only way it might hurt you would be through its location (e.g. if it was in your home market and you had a harder time selling firms in a different city that you really wanted to come there. It might have been easier to do just by taking an unpaid position in the second city).

Anonymous User wrote:Midlaw NYC, Attend a TTT, and grades are not that great but I have recommendations from EPs, Non-EPs, and Associates. My goal is actually not so much to jump to a bigger firm, but possibly inhouse or something.


Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, and I know OP started a new thread with a similar premise. But I would say you are going to be SOL as far as landing an in house gig with those grades at that school. Take the firm position and try to go in house later on. I also can't imagine anyone asking for recommendations based on work you did as a 1L summer.

biglaw99
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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby biglaw99 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:58 am

I appreciate your advice. I am stunned at the transfer process, as I didn't expect them to put so much weight on WE.

unlicensedpotato wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
This is real life, bro. Go to a firm where you can succeed. That might be Weil Gosthal or some highly ranked Vault firm, but it might not. Those firms might let you go in a heart beat where you are jobless or you don't do work that will let you grow. Or you can choose a firm with strong financials, that has a reputation of treating people well, but isn't a Vault 200 firm, but is known to pay people well and provide good work that lets you grow as a lawyer.


Even by TLS standards, you are very far off OP's topic. Clearly you were going to respond like this regardless of the question. There's no reason to push some anti prestige agenda here. As an aside, it's a very bold claim to say that you have to pass on the 200 "top" firms to find one with strong financials that treats people well.

Anonymous User wrote:Any possibility that it might hurt to have a 1L SA when going more for "elite" firms for 2L SA (as opposed to doing gov 1L year or something?)

E.g. If the 1L firm did different work, or was less prestigious?

Maybe firms at OCI think you're a flight risk for bailing on the 1L firm?

Or is this just crazy?


I can't see how having a 1L SA at a less prestigious firm would prevent you from going after "better" positions later. Firms aren't stupid and know that almost anyone would choose a paid SA over other positions. The only way it might hurt you would be through its location (e.g. if it was in your home market and you had a harder time selling firms in a different city that you really wanted to come there. It might have been easier to do just by taking an unpaid position in the second city).

Anonymous User wrote:Midlaw NYC, Attend a TTT, and grades are not that great but I have recommendations from EPs, Non-EPs, and Associates. My goal is actually not so much to jump to a bigger firm, but possibly inhouse or something.


Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, and I know OP started a new thread with a similar premise. But I would say you are going to be SOL as far as landing an in house gig with those grades at that school. Take the firm position and try to go in house later on. I also can't imagine anyone asking for recommendations based on work you did as a 1L summer.

kolokena
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Re: How much does a 1L SA help?

Postby kolokena » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:25 pm

For me personally, I think it helped. My 1L SA was at a boutique lit, so when I was pitching "why lit" during 2L interviews/callbacks my resume corroborated it. With any type of 1L experience, try to make the "link" during 2L interviews/callbacks even if it takes some explanation e.g. what I learned last summer and why it makes me an ideal candidate for X firm this summer.




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