Litigation Lateral

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MoonDreamer
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Litigation Lateral

Postby MoonDreamer » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:50 pm

anon168 wrote:
MoonDreamer wrote:
bdubs wrote:
MoonDreamer wrote:I don't understand. Why do firms care about my transcript and GPA from law school? A firm of similar quality decided to hire, retain, and invest in me. Isn't that enough? I was bottom 30% of a tier 3 so that's not going to look good.


They will probably be very skeptical of why the firm hired you in the first place and why they (or you) want you out the door. Particularly if you're asking how soon you can bail. Short tenure + bad grades sounds like a ticking time bomb that no one will want to touch.


Great personality? People skills?


Look, you can try and rationalize it however you want but the bottom line is firms are going to care about your grades and your law school pedigree.

It is what it is. There's nothing you can really do to change that.

You decided to go to a T3 and then didn't get good grades.

Just be happy you have a job.


For what it's worth my school used to be a Tier 2 when I joined. Also I went to an elite college. Does that matter?

TheZoid
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:07 pm

Re: Litigation Lateral

Postby TheZoid » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:15 am

No, it doesn't matter at all. You're not getting the fact that you're credentials just aren't very good. In fact, bottom third at a T3 is basically atrocious by big law standards, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that you're not particularly marketable.

ETA- just to give some context, bottom third might struggle to get big law at a T-14, and the T-14 and T3 are in totally different leagues.

MoonDreamer
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Litigation Lateral

Postby MoonDreamer » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:22 am

TheZoid wrote:No, it doesn't matter at all. You're not getting the fact that you're credentials just aren't very good. In fact, bottom third at a T3 is basically atrocious by big law standards, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that you're not particularly marketable.

ETA- just to give some context, bottom third might struggle to get big law at a T-14, and the T-14 and T3 are in totally different leagues.


Just so I'm clear. I have biglaw now. Does this make a difference?

TheZoid
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:07 pm

Re: Litigation Lateral

Postby TheZoid » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:28 am

I'm not in big law so it would make more sense for someone who is to give you some input, but based on the responses you're getting, apparently it doesn't. It's a really tough market and there are tons of qualified people out there, so it shouldn't be a shocker that this will be a tough road.

MoonDreamer
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Litigation Lateral

Postby MoonDreamer » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:30 am

Sounds like I better stay where I am or else I'm f-d

anon168
Posts: 920
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:36 pm

Re: Litigation Lateral

Postby anon168 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:34 am

MoonDreamer wrote:Sounds like I better stay where I am or else I'm f-d


Talk to a headhunter.

99% of the people have no idea what they're talking about. The other 1% are just lying.

MoonDreamer
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Litigation Lateral

Postby MoonDreamer » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:36 am

anon168 wrote:
MoonDreamer wrote:Sounds like I better stay where I am or else I'm f-d


Talk to a headhunter.

99% of the people have no idea what they're talking about. The other 1% are just lying.


I'm so confused. Ok.

heartbreaker
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:53 pm

Re: Litigation Lateral

Postby heartbreaker » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:54 am

Are you trying to lateral to another big law firm or to a litigation boutique? If big law, what's the point of transferring to another big law firm after a year? If a boutique, lateraling after one year is too soon. The less prestigious boutiques care less about schools/pedigree and more about litigation experience, which you just won't have after a year at big law. In the future, if you develop worthwhile skills and have people backing you, you may be an attractive candidate. The elite litigation shops similarly do not care about your one year at big law, and for those firms, it will never happen, as a federal clerkship (which nowadays is a proxy for school/grades) is a prerequisite in NYC/DC.

MoonDreamer
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Litigation Lateral

Postby MoonDreamer » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:10 am

heartbreaker wrote:Are you trying to lateral to another big law firm or to a litigation boutique? If big law, what's the point of transferring to another big law firm after a year? If a boutique, lateraling after one year is too soon. The less prestigious boutiques care less about schools/pedigree and more about litigation experience, which you just won't have after a year at big law. In the future, if you develop worthwhile skills and have people backing you, you may be an attractive candidate. The elite litigation shops similarly do not care about your one year at big law, and for those firms, it will never happen, as a federal clerkship (which nowadays is a proxy for school/grades) is a prerequisite in NYC/DC.


yep, you're a heartbreaker.

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A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22887
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Litigation Lateral

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:55 am

MoonDreamer wrote:how will they actually know what kind of work i've done? People don't put "wrote motions, drafted rogs" on their resumes.

Why wouldn't they put that on their resume? What do you put on your resume?

MoonDreamer
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Litigation Lateral

Postby MoonDreamer » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:12 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
MoonDreamer wrote:how will they actually know what kind of work i've done? People don't put "wrote motions, drafted rogs" on their resumes.

Why wouldn't they put that on their resume? What do you put on your resume?


"pre-trial litigation"

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22887
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Litigation Lateral

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:22 pm

MoonDreamer wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
MoonDreamer wrote:how will they actually know what kind of work i've done? People don't put "wrote motions, drafted rogs" on their resumes.

Why wouldn't they put that on their resume? What do you put on your resume?


"pre-trial litigation"

Well, if you want people to know what kind of work you've done (which would have some utility), why not be more specific?

MoonDreamer
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Litigation Lateral

Postby MoonDreamer » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:26 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
MoonDreamer wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
MoonDreamer wrote:how will they actually know what kind of work i've done? People don't put "wrote motions, drafted rogs" on their resumes.

Why wouldn't they put that on their resume? What do you put on your resume?


"pre-trial litigation"

Well, if you want people to know what kind of work you've done (which would have some utility), why not be more specific?


I just figure everyone does the same stuff.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22887
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Litigation Lateral

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:42 pm

MoonDreamer wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Well, if you want people to know what kind of work you've done (which would have some utility), why not be more specific?


I just figure everyone does the same stuff.

If they did, you wouldn't have to ask how people would know what you've actually done. Except the point was that no, not everyone does the same stuff:

It really depends on the type of work you do. If you spend your entire first and second years doing doc review, no one is going to want you as a third year. If you've taken depos, written motions, worked with experts, etc., then you'll be much more marketable no matter what your year is.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273582
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Litigation Lateral

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:22 pm

OP, how were you able to swing a big firm job from the bottom of a T3 in the first place?

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Litigation Lateral

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:24 pm

anon168 wrote:
MoonDreamer wrote:What is the minimum amount of time required to be able to feasibly lateral as a litigation associate? I'm at a great firm but I got crappy grades in law school. Been there for about a year now. A lot of posting want law school transcripts, which is absurd.

Advice would be appreciated.


Sorry to break it to you, but 90% (or more) of the firms out there will always want transcripts and if your resume doesn't already have your GPA, it should.


Do small firms specializing in areas like family or immigration law ask for transcripts if you've been several years outta law school?

anon168
Posts: 920
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:36 pm

Re: Litigation Lateral

Postby anon168 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
anon168 wrote:
MoonDreamer wrote:What is the minimum amount of time required to be able to feasibly lateral as a litigation associate? I'm at a great firm but I got crappy grades in law school. Been there for about a year now. A lot of posting want law school transcripts, which is absurd.

Advice would be appreciated.


Sorry to break it to you, but 90% (or more) of the firms out there will always want transcripts and if your resume doesn't already have your GPA, it should.


Do small firms specializing in areas like family or immigration law ask for transcripts if you've been several years outta law school?


Probably not, but it would help if you had prior experience in family or immigration law.




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