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AreJay711
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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby AreJay711 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:25 am

Jimbo_Jones wrote:I just think it's funny that many attorneys will complain about not having a life outside of work because they're in the office until 8-9PM every night. Well, if you got into the office at 7AM, you could get out at 5-6PM and still have plenty of time for family/life after work.

Obviously this is all dependent upon the normal business hours your employer and clients require you to keep.


If you have shit to do, sure. In a transactional practice where you are waiting for the client or the other counsel to get a draft back to you or you need to get on the phone to hammer some shit out before you start work, getting in early won't help. After some experience, you could probably make getting in early work for you, but you'd have to know how long things will take which was hard as a summer.

In litigation, it would probably be easier.

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nsideirish
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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby nsideirish » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:34 am

Jimbo_Jones wrote:I just think it's funny that many attorneys will complain about not having a life outside of work because they're in the office until 8-9PM every night. Well, if you got into the office at 7AM, you could get out at 5-6PM and still have plenty of time for family/life after work.

Obviously this is all dependent upon the normal business hours your employer and clients require you to keep.


Yes, getting in early will make a difference when a partner pops his head in your office at 5:30 and asks you to stick around for a while because "he might need you".

Then, hours pass and he decides he doesn't need you. Well, now it's 8 p.m. and your night is shot.

Anonymous User
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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:02 pm

Supposedly an average workday at my backwoods "regional biglaw" firm is 8-6, with weekends as needed depending on the way that the winds of litigation are blowing.

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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:26 am

nsideirish wrote:
Jimbo_Jones wrote:I just think it's funny that many attorneys will complain about not having a life outside of work because they're in the office until 8-9PM every night. Well, if you got into the office at 7AM, you could get out at 5-6PM and still have plenty of time for family/life after work.

Obviously this is all dependent upon the normal business hours your employer and clients require you to keep.


Yes, getting in early will make a difference when a partner pops his head in your office at 5:30 and asks you to stick around for a while because "he might need you".

Then, hours pass and he decides he doesn't need you. Well, now it's 8 p.m. and your night is shot.


This has never happened, and I don't really hear of it happening to others.

I've been slammed with work and had to stay late, but I can't think of a single day where I would sit and wait for work. I am also able to
Plan out my week reasonably well. Litigation is chock full of deadlines-which some people hate, but it provides a lot of clarity of what you work on each week.

I have heard of this happening at firms, and it would suck.

itbdvorm
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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby itbdvorm » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:
nsideirish wrote:
Jimbo_Jones wrote:I just think it's funny that many attorneys will complain about not having a life outside of work because they're in the office until 8-9PM every night. Well, if you got into the office at 7AM, you could get out at 5-6PM and still have plenty of time for family/life after work.

Obviously this is all dependent upon the normal business hours your employer and clients require you to keep.


Yes, getting in early will make a difference when a partner pops his head in your office at 5:30 and asks you to stick around for a while because "he might need you".

Then, hours pass and he decides he doesn't need you. Well, now it's 8 p.m. and your night is shot.


This has never happened, and I don't really hear of it happening to others.

I've been slammed with work and had to stay late, but I can't think of a single day where I would sit and wait for work. I am also able to
Plan out my week reasonably well. Litigation is chock full of deadlines-which some people hate, but it provides a lot of clarity of what you work on each week.

I have heard of this happening at firms, and it would suck.


This happens all the time.

But as a junior associate you can often bill that time at least.

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homestyle28
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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby homestyle28 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:33 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:Biglaw in NY =/= Biglaw in Chicago. There's a WORLD of difference between billing 2000 and billing 2500+ as far as quality of life.


Factoring in some inefficiency, we are talking nearly 2 hours extra work M-Sat, 50 weeks a year.


The difference between 7 hours of sleep and 5
The difference between getting to the gym or not
The difference between having dinner with your family or not

etc.

Anonymous User
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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:36 pm

On average, how many weekends do you work each month? I just calculated the number of weekends that I work at my current job - curious to see how much heavier/lighter the weekend workload is in biglaw. Also, is it looked down upon if you work from home on the weekends rather than coming into the office?

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guano
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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby guano » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
nsideirish wrote:
Jimbo_Jones wrote:I just think it's funny that many attorneys will complain about not having a life outside of work because they're in the office until 8-9PM every night. Well, if you got into the office at 7AM, you could get out at 5-6PM and still have plenty of time for family/life after work.

Obviously this is all dependent upon the normal business hours your employer and clients require you to keep.


Yes, getting in early will make a difference when a partner pops his head in your office at 5:30 and asks you to stick around for a while because "he might need you".

Then, hours pass and he decides he doesn't need you. Well, now it's 8 p.m. and your night is shot.


This has never happened, and I don't really hear of it happening to others.

I've been slammed with work and had to stay late, but I can't think of a single day where I would sit and wait for work. I am also able to
Plan out my week reasonably well. Litigation is chock full of deadlines-which some people hate, but it provides a lot of clarity of what you work on each week.

I have heard of this happening at firms, and it would suck.

From the other side, I've contacted our attorneys to let them know XYZ for a deal was coming some time later that evening and needed a quick turnaround (AKA don't leave your desk until it's done)... and then ended up waiting hours before I had what I needed to send it through.
But generally if work gets sent after dark I wouldn't expect it done before daybreak - those are exceptions, not the norm

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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:54 pm

As someone about to enter a large litigation practice, all of this both comforts and concerns me.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:22 pm

homestyle28 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:Biglaw in NY =/= Biglaw in Chicago. There's a WORLD of difference between billing 2000 and billing 2500+ as far as quality of life.


Factoring in some inefficiency, we are talking nearly 2 hours extra work M-Sat, 50 weeks a year.


The difference between 7 hours of sleep and 5
The difference between getting to the gym or not
The difference between having dinner with your family or not

etc.

You really think the guys at Kaye Scholer are billing 500+ more per year than the guys at K&E Chicago? How about the guys at K&E NY vs. K&E Chicago?

09042014
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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:23 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:Biglaw in NY =/= Biglaw in Chicago. There's a WORLD of difference between billing 2000 and billing 2500+ as far as quality of life.


Factoring in some inefficiency, we are talking nearly 2 hours extra work M-Sat, 50 weeks a year.


The difference between 7 hours of sleep and 5
The difference between getting to the gym or not
The difference between having dinner with your family or not

etc.

You really think the guys at Kaye Scholer are billing 500+ more per year than the guys at K&E Chicago? How about the guys at K&E NY vs. K&E Chicago?


KE Chicago is considered an outlier in Chicago. Whether that's true or not, who knows.

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homestyle28
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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby homestyle28 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:41 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:You really think the guys at Kaye Scholer are billing 500+ more per year than the guys at K&E Chicago? How about the guys at K&E NY vs. K&E Chicago?


KE Chicago is considered an outlier in Chicago. Whether that's true or not, who knows.


Obviously most of this stuff is anecdotal and K&E and Skadden are outliers in Chicago. But from what I've heard otherwise from associates in both Chicago and NY, yes to stay on the partner train in NYC you've gotta hit those 2500+ years, repeatedly and that's not the case at most Chicago firms.

09042014
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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:47 pm

homestyle28 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:You really think the guys at Kaye Scholer are billing 500+ more per year than the guys at K&E Chicago? How about the guys at K&E NY vs. K&E Chicago?


KE Chicago is considered an outlier in Chicago. Whether that's true or not, who knows.


Obviously most of this stuff is anecdotal and K&E and Skadden are outliers in Chicago. But from what I've heard otherwise from associates in both Chicago and NY, yes to stay on the partner train in NYC you've gotta hit those 2500+ years, repeatedly and that's not the case at most Chicago firms.


Partnership is a shitboomer flame. Nobody is going to make you a millionare equity holder in their business because you bill so hard muhfuckas wanna fine ya.

Well, at least outside of lockstep elite firms.

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20160810
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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby 20160810 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:10 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:Biglaw in NY =/= Biglaw in Chicago. There's a WORLD of difference between billing 2000 and billing 2500+ as far as quality of life.


Factoring in some inefficiency, we are talking nearly 2 hours extra work M-Sat, 50 weeks a year.


The difference between 7 hours of sleep and 5
The difference between getting to the gym or not
The difference between having dinner with your family or not

etc.

You really think the guys at Kaye Scholer are billing 500+ more per year than the guys at K&E Chicago? How about the guys at K&E NY vs. K&E Chicago?

I don't know poo about K&E NY or Chicago, but I have plenty of anecdotal reports of people moving to different offices and seeing the workload change drastically. NYC is consistently ranked as worse than everywhere else in terms of hours.

Anonymous Associate
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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby Anonymous Associate » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:On average, how many weekends do you work each month? I just calculated the number of weekends that I work at my current job - curious to see how much heavier/lighter the weekend workload is in biglaw. Also, is it looked down upon if you work from home on the weekends rather than coming into the office?


I am sure this various firm to firm. I am working about 1 weekend a month on average. At least where I am am, no one expects you to come in on the weekend. When I have, it is a ghost-town. I have never come in on the weekend unless I had a meeting, witness prep, or a depo.

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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:43 pm

Y'all got pretty nice hours. There's no norm at my firm, but it seems like people are regularly there past 8 or 9, often working later when on a deal or busy meeting a litigation deadline. From what I've seen and worked as a NYC V20 SA

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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:Y'all got pretty nice hours. There's no norm at my firm, but it seems like people are regularly there past 8 or 9, often working later when on a deal or busy meeting a litigation deadline. From what I've seen and worked as a NYC V20 SA


When do things get moving in the morning? Some groups I've rotated through start up around 8:00 am. Others are dead until 10.

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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:Supposedly an average workday at my backwoods "regional biglaw" firm is 8-6, with weekends as needed depending on the way that the winds of litigation are blowing.


This is what I have noticed summering at my regional SA as well. I was here until 11pm once (I was out the door before 5:30 just about every other day this summer). I went out at 6 to grab dinner and there were 3 cars in the parking lot when I came back. When I left at 11, there were none. Pretty much everyone leaves early and at sane hours.

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20160810
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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby 20160810 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Y'all got pretty nice hours. There's no norm at my firm, but it seems like people are regularly there past 8 or 9, often working later when on a deal or busy meeting a litigation deadline. From what I've seen and worked as a NYC V20 SA

What are you doing there past 8 or 9 as a summer? You should be sailing with a scotch in your hand by that hour.

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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Y'all got pretty nice hours. There's no norm at my firm, but it seems like people are regularly there past 8 or 9, often working later when on a deal or busy meeting a litigation deadline. From what I've seen and worked as a NYC V20 SA


When do things get moving in the morning? Some groups I've rotated through start up around 8:00 am. Others are dead until 10.


9:30 - 10.

Anonymous User
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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:08 pm

SBL wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Y'all got pretty nice hours. There's no norm at my firm, but it seems like people are regularly there past 8 or 9, often working later when on a deal or busy meeting a litigation deadline. From what I've seen and worked as a NYC V20 SA

What are you doing there past 8 or 9 as a summer? You should be sailing with a scotch in your hand by that hour.


I worked a lot of hours for around a month. I was on a deal that was closing. I'd walk around at 9 or 10 PM and see a good number of people still there. Some associates I was in touch with at the firm were regularly there past midnight. No complaints though. Good to see they didn't handhold the summers.

Anonymous User
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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:28 pm

first-year in a V30- patent litigation only.

1) When you wake up and leave for work?

Wake up at 7:15 am; leave home around 7:45am.

2) When you get out?

8:30pm usually; sometimes 10pm or 11pm.

3) How long do you spend working intensely vs how long you socialize/have lunch/surf the web?

I have a lot of a writer's blocks. Most of the time, it's not-billable when you're staring at your laptop and can't put a word on paper.
In general, I had 70% utilization rate, on a good day. 50% utilization rate on a bad day.
I usually bill 9-10 hours a day with 13-14 hours in the office.
I do a lot of writing, rather than doc review. I wish I can have more doc review- easier hours . . . .

4) How often do you work on weekends and for how many hours?

Every Saturday - just like any normal work day. 10-12 hours in the office
Sunday - it depends - usually 3-5 hours in the office; but not every Sunday.

5) How many hours do you work after you get home?

I try not to work at home.

6) ... any other relevant data points

I think it really depends on what kind of assignment you're working on. For doc review, it's just billing time. Every minute you spend on the documents counts. For writing/motion practices/reports/contentions, you have to think, and very often you won't bill the thinking time, since you aren't doing anything. But without the thinking time, you get no writing done. Hard to say.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:first-year in a V30- patent litigation only.

1) When you wake up and leave for work?

Wake up at 7:15 am; leave home around 7:45am.

2) When you get out?

8:30pm usually; sometimes 10pm or 11pm.

3) How long do you spend working intensely vs how long you socialize/have lunch/surf the web?

I have a lot of a writer's blocks. Most of the time, it's not-billable when you're staring at your laptop and can't put a word on paper.
In general, I had 70% utilization rate, on a good day. 50% utilization rate on a bad day.
I usually bill 9-10 hours a day with 13-14 hours in the office.
I do a lot of writing, rather than doc review. I wish I can have more doc review- easier hours . . . .

4) How often do you work on weekends and for how many hours?

Every Saturday - just like any normal work day. 10-12 hours in the office
Sunday - it depends - usually 3-5 hours in the office; but not every Sunday.

5) How many hours do you work after you get home?

I try not to work at home.

6) ... any other relevant data points

I think it really depends on what kind of assignment you're working on. For doc review, it's just billing time. Every minute you spend on the documents counts. For writing/motion practices/reports/contentions, you have to think, and very often you won't bill the thinking time, since you aren't doing anything. But without the thinking time, you get no writing done. Hard to say.

Thanks for chiming in. It sounds like you're on pace to bill close to 3000 hours. Is this normal at your firm? What city?

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unlicensedpotato
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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby unlicensedpotato » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:34 pm

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Last edited by unlicensedpotato on Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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AreJay711
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Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?

Postby AreJay711 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:39 pm

unlicensedpotato wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
I think it really depends on what kind of assignment you're working on. For doc review, it's just billing time. Every minute you spend on the documents counts. For writing/motion practices/reports/contentions, you have to think, and very often you won't bill the thinking time, since you aren't doing anything. But without the thinking time, you get no writing done. Hard to say.


Why don't you bill the thinking time?
Meaning, start the timer when you start thinking to write the document. It's not like you stop the timer when you stop typing to think of another sentence. To me, it seems like this is what would be expected?


Maybe thinking about the case but not writer's block thinking. I'd still bill it and let that shit get lowered by the partner or billing coordinator, but whatever.




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