Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

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Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:37 pm

Hey so I am a transfer student who just had to throw away all of my prep work for my old schools OCI (gladly!). What is everyone doing to prepare? I just got access to B-Line, so I am going through the process of researching firms and fine tuning my resume. Do we need cover letters to bid on the firm? I know it is all lottery-based, but I would love some more clarification on how the process works. I have explored the EIW website, but would like to know what you all are doing Thanks!

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Re: Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hey so I am a transfer student who just had to throw away all of my prep work for my old schools OCI (gladly!). What is everyone doing to prepare? I just got access to B-Line, so I am going through the process of researching firms and fine tuning my resume. Do we need cover letters to bid on the firm? I know it is all lottery-based, but I would love some more clarification on how the process works. I have explored the EIW website, but would like to know what you all are doing Thanks!


Hey, I'm another transfer student at Boalt. I'm working on making my bidlist by going through last year's EIW results (looking at numbers of bids, interviews, offers, etc.). I'm from CA and planning to target the Bay Area while including some LA/OC firms and a few NY firms.

To be perfectly frank...
Image

Edit: I think firms will say whether or not they want a cover letter in the instructions section. Otherwise, it seems like you just submit your resume and it's sent to them shortly before the interview. As far as strategy goes with regards to the lottery system, you'll want to place the firms that you're most interested in and are most heavily bid near the top and work your way down.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:13 pm

Awesome, that's exactly what I'm doing. Putting everything in a spreadsheet and hopefully sorting it out somehow later on. At my old school, the interviews were pre-screened so we had to make a cover letter for each firm we placed bids for. What a nightmare. Reason enough to transfer out.

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Re: Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Awesome, that's exactly what I'm doing. Putting everything in a spreadsheet and hopefully sorting it out somehow later on. At my old school, the interviews were pre-screened so we had to make a cover letter for each firm we placed bids for. What a nightmare. Reason enough to transfer out.


My old school's OCI was wholly pre-screened, as well. Although I was dreading making cover letters for every firm I bid on, at least the process was straightforward. The lottery system is more confusing and I don't know how high to set my sights as a transfer... I don't want to end up in an interview where it's readily apparent that we're all wasting our time. I know the general consensus is that they look at your grades in light of your school you were at when you got them (which makes sense) and that you should go after firms you could have gotten from your old school, but my old school was in a different region and a lot of these firms weren't going to be at our OCI. I was at the top of my class, though, so I'm hoping I can reach pretty high.

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Re: Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Awesome, that's exactly what I'm doing. Putting everything in a spreadsheet and hopefully sorting it out somehow later on. At my old school, the interviews were pre-screened so we had to make a cover letter for each firm we placed bids for. What a nightmare. Reason enough to transfer out.


My old school's OCI was wholly pre-screened, as well. Although I was dreading making cover letters for every firm I bid on, at least the process was straightforward. The lottery system is more confusing and I don't know how high to set my sights as a transfer... I don't want to end up in an interview where it's readily apparent that we're all wasting our time. I know the general consensus is that they look at your grades in light of your school you were at when you got them (which makes sense) and that you should go after firms you could have gotten from your old school, but my old school was in a different region and a lot of these firms weren't going to be at our OCI. I was at the top of my class, though, so I'm hoping I can reach pretty high.


I've been told that sometimes employers look at a transfer student positively because he/she has the ambition to transfer to another school and go through everything that comes with that. It also could show that you're invested to that region, which may be an incentive to take you on.

I don't necessarily think that you should only focus on firms that you could have gotten at your old school. That is one of the benefits of being at a better school. Take advantage of it and don't fall back on the idea that you're a transfer student and didn't deserve to be at the school you're at now a year ago. I'd go into the process with the mindset that your new school missed out on you the first go around and made a mistake. It took you killing 1L for them to figure it out, but you're glad they did and you're there to take full advantage of the new opportunities.

Also, many of the T14 either don't have grades or have the HH/H/P system, so employers may actually enjoy seeing all A's over some weird combination of H/P/HP etc. etc.

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Re: Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:58 pm

Any idea whether someone transferring in from a T50 with straight As would have a shot at firms like Irell, Arnold & Porter, Kirkland, or other notoriously grade-selective firms in CA?

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Re: Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Any idea whether someone transferring in from a T50 with straight As would have a shot at firms like Irell, Arnold & Porter, Kirkland, or other notoriously grade-selective firms in CA?


Wondering this myself as I am in the same situation...

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Re: Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:18 pm

Hey transfers - rising 2L here. Be sure to check out the CDO page for EIW. It includes a useful page on bidding strategy (the same page lists the spreadsheet OP mentioned), written guides, and videos from past presentations. You should also write to the career counselors with your bid lists and grades. They're responsive and should be able to help.

I do agree the lottery is a bit of shot in the dark. Still trying to figure it out myself.

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Re: Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hey transfers - rising 2L here. Be sure to check out the CDO page for EIW. It includes a useful page on bidding strategy (the same page lists the spreadsheet OP mentioned), written guides, and videos from past presentations. You should also write to the career counselors with your bid lists and grades. They're responsive and should be able to help.

I do agree the lottery is a bit of shot in the dark. Still trying to figure it out myself.



Awesome, thanks for the tips. I have a phone interview with someone from the CDO and I have already sent my resume in to be inspected/critiqued.

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Re: Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any idea whether someone transferring in from a T50 with straight As would have a shot at firms like Irell, Arnold & Porter, Kirkland, or other notoriously grade-selective firms in CA?


Wondering this myself as I am in the same situation...


Irell might be a stretch (unsure how they like transfers) but A&P and K&E will love it. A&P's DC office takes a good number of tippy top non-T14 kids each year, and K&E isn't quite as grade-selective as you'd think. I think MoFo and some of the other "grade-conscious" firms are definitely in play with straight-A grades from your former school and a Boalt transfer. Congrats on killing it.

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Re: Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:47 am

Where can you tell the selectivity and "grade-consciousness" of some of the big Bay Area firms? Is there one specific resource that has all of this information, or did you glean it by reading these boards?

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Re: Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:09 am

Anonymous User wrote:Where can you tell the selectivity and "grade-consciousness" of some of the big Bay Area firms? Is there one specific resource that has all of this information, or did you glean it by reading these boards?


I've been trying to sort through the information CSO provides and I'm piecing together which firms are more/less selective based on the Excel spreadsheet that lists the data from last year's EIW. The firms that had the most bids but fewest offers are, I'm assuming, the most selective. As for grade-consciousness, most of that has just come from reading TLS.

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Re: Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:43 pm

I can't stand the lottery system. 60 bids is a ridiculous amount of information to try and handle/rank. I have no clue what I'm doing. Plus knowing how many people bid on a firm seems useless if we have no indication of where they bid the firm.

I feel like the lottery system feels a bit...sham-y. If they end up using grades anyways, what's the point? (Yes, I understand it gives people without the grades the opportunity to at least interview and prove grade conscious firms wrong. But, come on....maybe I'm just cranky about it :( ).

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Re: Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:16 pm

The best you can do is to try and bid efficiently.

Last year, the CDO had historic bid stats for various firms. Something along the lines of a chart that showed how many people bid on a particular firm, and how many people got an interview. From that, you can get some rough ratios to work with.

I think your next step should be to figure out what market you want to focus on, and what market is your back-up. Anecdotally, S.F. and D.C. are the "tougher" primary markets because it seems everybody wants to go to those two markets. This may seem obvious, but if you want either of those markets, fill up your top twenty with those markets. A lot of people alternated their bids between markets and ended up with less than satisfactory results. L.A. and N.Y. are pretty easy to get from what I remember. I don't know anything about the other markets, and I think splitting between three markets isn't worth it.

Worst case scenario is that you try and scrounge up an interview the day the firm is interviewing. Many people were able to do this successfully.

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Re: Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:The best you can do is to try and bid efficiently.

Last year, the CDO had historic bid stats for various firms. Something along the lines of a chart that showed how many people bid on a particular firm, and how many people got an interview. From that, you can get some rough ratios to work with.

I think your next step should be to figure out what market you want to focus on, and what market is your back-up. Anecdotally, S.F. and D.C. are the "tougher" primary markets because it seems everybody wants to go to those two markets. This may seem obvious, but if you want either of those markets, fill up your top twenty with those markets. A lot of people alternated their bids between markets and ended up with less than satisfactory results. L.A. and N.Y. are pretty easy to get from what I remember. I don't know anything about the other markets, and I think splitting between three markets isn't worth it.

Worst case scenario is that you try and scrounge up an interview the day the firm is interviewing. Many people were able to do this successfully.


I just spoke with the CDO about the spreadsheet of last years bids because, even though they tell you how many people bid on a firm, they don't tell you where people bid that firm. Sure, if a particular firm received a lot of bids it's quite likely that they were bid fairly high, but that's not certain. In any case, they either don't have or can't release where people bid a firm and can only tell us how many people bid a firm. Along those same lines, I was told that if I want an interview with MoFo I had better bid them #1. They also said that every firm you bid, regardless of whether or not you get an interview, is given a notification that you did bid them (but not how high or low you bid them). So, if you don't get a screener with a firm you wanted, you should email them right away and say that you bid them (they'll know) and that you weren't able to get the interview but would like one outside of EIW.

Question for you. Why should we not be splitting multiple markets? I keep reading about how splitting multiple markets is a recipe for disaster and likely to lead to a strike-out, but no-one says why. Maybe there's an obvious answer, but I don't get it...

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Re: Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The best you can do is to try and bid efficiently.

Last year, the CDO had historic bid stats for various firms. Something along the lines of a chart that showed how many people bid on a particular firm, and how many people got an interview. From that, you can get some rough ratios to work with.

I think your next step should be to figure out what market you want to focus on, and what market is your back-up. Anecdotally, S.F. and D.C. are the "tougher" primary markets because it seems everybody wants to go to those two markets. This may seem obvious, but if you want either of those markets, fill up your top twenty with those markets. A lot of people alternated their bids between markets and ended up with less than satisfactory results. L.A. and N.Y. are pretty easy to get from what I remember. I don't know anything about the other markets, and I think splitting between three markets isn't worth it.

Worst case scenario is that you try and scrounge up an interview the day the firm is interviewing. Many people were able to do this successfully.


I just spoke with the CDO about the spreadsheet of last years bids because, even though they tell you how many people bid on a firm, they don't tell you where people bid that firm. Sure, if a particular firm received a lot of bids it's quite likely that they were bid fairly high, but that's not certain. In any case, they either don't have or can't release where people bid a firm and can only tell us how many people bid a firm. Along those same lines, I was told that if I want an interview with MoFo I had better bid them #1. They also said that every firm you bid, regardless of whether or not you get an interview, is given a notification that you did bid them (but not how high or low you bid them). So, if you don't get a screener with a firm you wanted, you should email them right away and say that you bid them (they'll know) and that you weren't able to get the interview but would like one outside of EIW.

Question for you. Why should we not be splitting multiple markets? I keep reading about how splitting multiple markets is a recipe for disaster and likely to lead to a strike-out, but no-one says why. Maybe there's an obvious answer, but I don't get it...


It probably has to do with getting the most "bang for your buck" bid wise. If everyone is shooting for SF and you are splitting high bids between SF (everyone is frontloading) and LA (for example, which no one would front load) you'd probably get plenty of LA interviews but be very disappointed in your SF interview numbers. In a sense, you have to follow the crowd if your interest align with the crowds.

Between you and me--I hate the system. If firms are really as grade conscious as TLS makes them out to seem, then so much of this system feels like a waste of time. If they are going to be making determinations based off grades anyways, might as well let them do that in advance rather than on the spot.

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Re: Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The best you can do is to try and bid efficiently.

Last year, the CDO had historic bid stats for various firms. Something along the lines of a chart that showed how many people bid on a particular firm, and how many people got an interview. From that, you can get some rough ratios to work with.

I think your next step should be to figure out what market you want to focus on, and what market is your back-up. Anecdotally, S.F. and D.C. are the "tougher" primary markets because it seems everybody wants to go to those two markets. This may seem obvious, but if you want either of those markets, fill up your top twenty with those markets. A lot of people alternated their bids between markets and ended up with less than satisfactory results. L.A. and N.Y. are pretty easy to get from what I remember. I don't know anything about the other markets, and I think splitting between three markets isn't worth it.

Worst case scenario is that you try and scrounge up an interview the day the firm is interviewing. Many people were able to do this successfully.


I just spoke with the CDO about the spreadsheet of last years bids because, even though they tell you how many people bid on a firm, they don't tell you where people bid that firm. Sure, if a particular firm received a lot of bids it's quite likely that they were bid fairly high, but that's not certain. In any case, they either don't have or can't release where people bid a firm and can only tell us how many people bid a firm. Along those same lines, I was told that if I want an interview with MoFo I had better bid them #1. They also said that every firm you bid, regardless of whether or not you get an interview, is given a notification that you did bid them (but not how high or low you bid them). So, if you don't get a screener with a firm you wanted, you should email them right away and say that you bid them (they'll know) and that you weren't able to get the interview but would like one outside of EIW.

Question for you. Why should we not be splitting multiple markets? I keep reading about how splitting multiple markets is a recipe for disaster and likely to lead to a strike-out, but no-one says why. Maybe there's an obvious answer, but I don't get it...


It probably has to do with getting the most "bang for your buck" bid wise. If everyone is shooting for SF and you are splitting high bids between SF (everyone is frontloading) and LA (for example, which no one would front load) you'd probably get plenty of LA interviews but be very disappointed in your SF interview numbers. In a sense, you have to follow the crowd if your interest align with the crowds.

Between you and me--I hate the system. If firms are really as grade conscious as TLS makes them out to seem, then so much of this system feels like a waste of time. If they are going to be making determinations based off grades anyways, might as well let them do that in advance rather than on the spot.


I agree. I think that the pre-select system is great for this industry (assuming, of course, that grades get your foot in the door). While it may seem awesome for the guy with a lackluster 1L performance to be able to land a screener with Cravath, it's a waste of everybody's time and comes at the expense of someone who might have actually had a shot. I'm all for letting the firms weed out the candidates based on grades and then, from the pool of those they'd give serious consideration to, look for those who would make the best "fit."

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Re: Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
I agree. I think that the pre-select system is great for this industry (assuming, of course, that grades get your foot in the door). While it may seem awesome for the guy with a lackluster 1L performance to be able to land a screener with Cravath, it's a waste of everybody's time and comes at the expense of someone who might have actually had a shot. I'm all for letting the firms weed out the candidates based on grades and then, from the pool of those they'd give serious consideration to, look for those who would make the best "fit."


I think they should have just done it like BADCF. Allow a certain % to pre-select and then have the remaining interviews be through a lottery system. It's a win-win.

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Re: Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The best you can do is to try and bid efficiently.

Last year, the CDO had historic bid stats for various firms. Something along the lines of a chart that showed how many people bid on a particular firm, and how many people got an interview. From that, you can get some rough ratios to work with.

I think your next step should be to figure out what market you want to focus on, and what market is your back-up. Anecdotally, S.F. and D.C. are the "tougher" primary markets because it seems everybody wants to go to those two markets. This may seem obvious, but if you want either of those markets, fill up your top twenty with those markets. A lot of people alternated their bids between markets and ended up with less than satisfactory results. L.A. and N.Y. are pretty easy to get from what I remember. I don't know anything about the other markets, and I think splitting between three markets isn't worth it.

Worst case scenario is that you try and scrounge up an interview the day the firm is interviewing. Many people were able to do this successfully.


I just spoke with the CDO about the spreadsheet of last years bids because, even though they tell you how many people bid on a firm, they don't tell you where people bid that firm. Sure, if a particular firm received a lot of bids it's quite likely that they were bid fairly high, but that's not certain. In any case, they either don't have or can't release where people bid a firm and can only tell us how many people bid a firm. Along those same lines, I was told that if I want an interview with MoFo I had better bid them #1. They also said that every firm you bid, regardless of whether or not you get an interview, is given a notification that you did bid them (but not how high or low you bid them). So, if you don't get a screener with a firm you wanted, you should email them right away and say that you bid them (they'll know) and that you weren't able to get the interview but would like one outside of EIW.

Question for you. Why should we not be splitting multiple markets? I keep reading about how splitting multiple markets is a recipe for disaster and likely to lead to a strike-out, but no-one says why. Maybe there's an obvious answer, but I don't get it...


It probably has to do with getting the most "bang for your buck" bid wise. If everyone is shooting for SF and you are splitting high bids between SF (everyone is frontloading) and LA (for example, which no one would front load) you'd probably get plenty of LA interviews but be very disappointed in your SF interview numbers. In a sense, you have to follow the crowd if your interest align with the crowds.

Between you and me--I hate the system. If firms are really as grade conscious as TLS makes them out to seem, then so much of this system feels like a waste of time. If they are going to be making determinations based off grades anyways, might as well let them do that in advance rather than on the spot.


Originally quoted anon here. Yeah, I think the "bang for your buck" thing is right. And yes, you won't know what priority people bid, but it's good for a rough indicator of popularity. On a somewhat related note, I think it's better to get a scheduled interview than an ad-hoc one because the latter seems to be of more form than function. The interviewers are only human, and after a day of interviews, they're looking to go home/drink, not ask someone "why us?" again. I don't know how off-campus screeners go, because I never had one, nor do I know of anyone who did.

As for whether to bid the supposedly "grade-conscious" firms: when in doubt, bid 'em. The worst that can happen is you practice your interviewing skills for twenty minutes. This assumes, of course, that you actually ended up with more than just three screeners with grade-conscious firms and you also only have straight P's. I think more H's than P's is worth a long shot.

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Re: Berkeley EIW 2013 Prep

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:47 pm

Hope everyone here did well with their bidding and landed the interviews they wanted. How's everyone holding up now that EIW is right around the corner?




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