UChicago OCI 2013

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Emma.
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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby Emma. » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:180, LR. All firms are DC except at the bottom.
2 questions: Will I get everything in the top 12? Will I get any of the NY firms?
All advice appreciated. Thanks.



Strong ties to DC?

You'll probably get ~15 of your top 20, but it is tough to know exactly how your top dozen will pan out since bidding is idiosyncratic year to year. If for some reason there's 25 people in your class gunning for DC, you won't necessarily get all of your top 12.

If what you want is DC, you have strong ties there, and you have average-or-above interviewing skills, then with your grades you'll do really well with DC firms and the NY bids won't matter. If you aren't sure that DC is your first choice, I'd bump some of the NY offices up a little.

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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How is this for a top 20, simply for the purposes of maximizing screeners? Anything jump out as too high or too low?

1. Jenner & Block, Chicago, 63 interview slots
2. Mayer Brown, Chicago, 63
3. Sidley, Chicago, 84
4. Kirkland & Ellis, Chicago, 84
5. Skadden, Chicago, 84
6. Katten Muchin, 42
7. Dentons, Chicago, 21
8 Chapman & Cutler, Chicago, 21
9. Vinson & Elkins, Houston, 21
10. Baker Botts, Houston 21
11. Schiff Hardin, Chicago, 21
12. Paul Weiss, NYC, 42
13. Debevoise, NYC, 63
14. Gibson Dunn, NYC, 42
15. Locke Lord, Houston, 21
16. Milbank Tweed, NYC 21
17. Allen & Overy, NYC 21
18 Ropes & Gray, NYC, 42
19. Shearman, NYC, 21
20. Stroock & Stroock, NYC, 21



Grades? This is pretty all over the place when it comes to selectivity. I understand wanting some safeties/reaches, but I'd suggest limiting the number of them (right now it seems like 1/2 are either reaches or safeties).


T25 transfer, top 15%. Not really sure how aggressive to bid..

HoratioHornblower
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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby HoratioHornblower » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:10 pm

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Last edited by HoratioHornblower on Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Emma.
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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby Emma. » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:12 pm

HoratioHornblower wrote:177.5(something) GPA. Secondary journal. K-JD. Midwest brat. Am fine with either New York or Chicago, but would heavily prefer Chicago. Anything seem ridiculous from this list of my top 20?



S&C, K&E, DPW and Cravath are all pretty big reaches for you. You might be bidding a touch too aggressively.

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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:20 pm

Sidley is a bit of a stretch too. Also, if Chicago is a priority, why are 9 of your top 15 bids NY?

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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:23 pm

Emma. wrote:
HoratioHornblower wrote:177.5(something) GPA. Secondary journal. K-JD. Midwest brat. Am fine with either New York or Chicago, but would heavily prefer Chicago. Anything seem ridiculous from this list of my top 20?



S&C, K&E, DPW and Cravath are all pretty big reaches for you. You might be bidding a touch too aggressively.


I think you will miss Paul Hastings, DLA, (maybe) Katten. Jones Day Chicago seems way too high. FF too high. To follow what Emma said, consider dropping Cravath completely and moving Sullcrom down.

Accidental anon, mods feel free to out.

HoratioHornblower
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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby HoratioHornblower » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:27 pm

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Last edited by HoratioHornblower on Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mad Hatter
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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby Mad Hatter » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:30 pm

HoratioHornblower wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Sidley is a bit of a stretch too. Also, if Chicago is a priority, why are 9 of your top 15 bids NY?


Because I don't think I have the grades to make it into the Chicago firms I want (Jenner, Jones Day, and K & E in that order).

I'm anon. If so, why bid on them at all? There are plenty of market-paying Chicago firms that should be up there if Chicago is really a priority.

HoratioHornblower
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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby HoratioHornblower » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:33 pm

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Last edited by HoratioHornblower on Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RodneyRuxin
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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby RodneyRuxin » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:34 pm

Mad Hatter wrote:
HoratioHornblower wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Sidley is a bit of a stretch too. Also, if Chicago is a priority, why are 9 of your top 15 bids NY?


Because I don't think I have the grades to make it into the Chicago firms I want (Jenner, Jones Day, and K & E in that order).

I'm anon. If so, why bid on them at all? There are plenty of market-paying Chicago firms that should be up there if Chicago is really a priority.



MH, he definitely has a shot at them, but they're reaches and they may be better at whatever prac area he's interested in (or have a better lifestyle [jenner]). If you're trying to dissuade him for personal reasons, realize that almost half the class will get an interview with K&E so this isn't going to help you...

But FWIW, Horatio, bidding NY doesn't make you safer if you bid a bunch of reaches. FF is appropriate but I'm not so sure about DPW, Cravath, Sullcrom.

Consider bigger shops with more SA slots.

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Mad Hatter
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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby Mad Hatter » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:36 pm

RodneyRuxin wrote:
Mad Hatter wrote:
HoratioHornblower wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Sidley is a bit of a stretch too. Also, if Chicago is a priority, why are 9 of your top 15 bids NY?


Because I don't think I have the grades to make it into the Chicago firms I want (Jenner, Jones Day, and K & E in that order).

I'm anon. If so, why bid on them at all? There are plenty of market-paying Chicago firms that should be up there if Chicago is really a priority.



MH, he definitely has a shot at them, but they're reaches and they may be better at whatever prac area he's interested in (or have a better lifestyle [jenner]). If you're trying to dissuade him for personal reasons, realize that almost half the class will get an interview so this isn't going to help you...

But FWIW, Horatio, bidding NY doesn't make you safer if you bid a bunch of reaches. FF is appropriate but I'm not so sure about DPW, Cravath, Sullcrom.

Consider bigger shops with more SA slots.

wtf? personal reasons? I'm not going to post some of the floors mentioned at the lunch talk, but they were comfortably above HH's.

Also, HH, you should be mass mailing all the NY firms with big classes who aren't coming to OCI.

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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:39 pm

Do any former bidders have an idea where the lowest place the V2-10 can to be bid to feel confident about getting all of them?

And then re: the order to bid them, assuming one doesn't eliminate Latham or Weil for layoff reasons, should it be:
Kirkland, Latham, Weil (Low interview slots)
DPW, Simpson, Skadden, Cleary (More interview slots in order of lowest callback selectivity)
SullCrom, Cravath (More selective)


Not saying they need to be bid as a block either, but that is a good chunk of the NY slots right there so I don't want to miss out on any.

RodneyRuxin
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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby RodneyRuxin » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:45 pm

Mad Hatter wrote:'m not going to post some of the floors mentioned at the lunch talk,


Woo said if you're above you will be "comfortable" but telling him not to bid them completely because of less than a point raises some red flags...

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Mad Hatter
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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby Mad Hatter » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:03 pm

RodneyRuxin wrote:
Mad Hatter wrote:'m not going to post some of the floors mentioned at the lunch talk,


Woo said if you're above you will be "comfortable" but telling him not to bid them completely because of less than a point raises some red flags...

1. Sidley is ridiculously popular among law students, and I know a couple people who turned down Kirkland for them. HH will be competing with a tough crowd.

2. If bidding Sidley high means losing an interview with Baker, Greenberg, Katten, etc., no I don't think throwing an early bid their way is wise. As I believe you mentioned at some point, bidding bad early pushes all the firms you have a chance at even lower.

If you want to debate the point, that's fine, but calling someone out for self-dealing? Suspicion always haunts the guilty mind...

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Emma.
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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby Emma. » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:06 pm

Jesus, guys. Chill the fuck out.

But seriously, MH is right in that you should save your top bids for the firms you have the best shot at. Competition for interviews with the less-selective Chi firms can be just as intense (if not more so) than the competition for K&E and Sidley.

HoratioHornblower
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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby HoratioHornblower » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:11 pm

Emma. wrote:Jesus, guys. Chill the fuck out.

But seriously, MH is right in that you should save your top bids for the firms you have the best shot at. Competition for interviews with the less-selective Chi firms can be just as intense (if not more so) than the competition for K&E and Sidley.


You've been very helpful. I really appreciate it. Are there any firms not in my top 15 from Chicago that you think should be there besides Katten?

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Haymarket
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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby Haymarket » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:13 pm

This group has me divided. On the one hand, I want to tell you all to calm down and stop being so agitated. On the other hand, I want you all to be more scared because too many of you are overconfident and, I think, bidding recklessly.

Chill the fuck out.

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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:21 pm

HoratioHornblower wrote:
Emma. wrote:Jesus, guys. Chill the fuck out.

But seriously, MH is right in that you should save your top bids for the firms you have the best shot at. Competition for interviews with the less-selective Chi firms can be just as intense (if not more so) than the competition for K&E and Sidley.


You've been very helpful. I really appreciate it. Are there any firms not in my top 15 from Chicago that you think should be there besides Katten?


Since you all like credentials so much: Recent grad, bid straight chicago, just above median at OCI, no journal

I struck out with the big firms, but that could easily have been my interview nerves. I think a lot of the Chicago firms focus more on fit to differentiate between applicants, so work on your interview skills and you might do better. I would move Schiff and Morgan Lewis up. Consider Dentons and Barrack Ferrazano. Schiff has a different approach to interviewing, so be prepared to answer thinking questions rather than resume/class questions.

RodneyRuxin
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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby RodneyRuxin » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:23 pm

Mad Hatter wrote:


Sorry for calling you out. Dick move.

I agree with Sidley, but the firms he listed (K&E, Jones Day, and Jenner) are much more fit-oriented and I don't think he's necessarily under a grade "floor" to the point where he can't bid them as reaches (as long as safeties are bid as well, which they are).

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Mad Hatter
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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby Mad Hatter » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:23 pm

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as angry or whatever. I just think that this thread becomes a lot less useful as soon as people begin suspecting others of trying to screw them over.

Image

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Xifeng
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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby Xifeng » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:27 pm

If you aren't already, maybe rank firms that have hired Chicago grads recently/in large numbers higher because it shows that they (1) hire us, (2) they're more popular so you'll need to put them higher to get them, and (3) you can talk to a current student to get a better sense of the firm.

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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby RodneyRuxin » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:28 pm

Mad Hatter wrote:I just think that this thread becomes a lot less useful as soon as people begin suspecting others of trying to screw them over.


Drop it? You presented an extreme viewpoint that seemed ridiculous and is likely because you're above the threshold. K&E has 84 slots, if people with HH's grades didn't bid them, they wouldn't fill up. And K&E fills up fast. Most of the SA spots are at the big Chi firms...

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Smumps
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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby Smumps » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:29 pm

the parties are advised to chill

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Xifeng
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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby Xifeng » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:33 pm

RodneyRuxin wrote:
Mad Hatter wrote:I just think that this thread becomes a lot less useful as soon as people begin suspecting others of trying to screw them over.


Drop it? You presented an extreme viewpoint that seemed ridiculous and is likely because you're above the threshold. K&E has 84 slots, if people with HH's grades didn't bid them, they wouldn't fill up. And K&E fills up fast. Most of the SA spots are at the big Chi firms...


Yes, most of the Chicago spots ARE at the big firms. Which are more grade selective. Which is why straight Chicago bidding at or below median isn't a good idea unless you're a special snowflake. Which most people aren't.

And if you two are going to keep waving your dicks at each other, take it to PMs.

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Haymarket
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Re: UChicago OCI 2013

Postby Haymarket » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:37 pm

Xifeng wrote:
RodneyRuxin wrote:
Mad Hatter wrote:I just think that this thread becomes a lot less useful as soon as people begin suspecting others of trying to screw them over.


Drop it? You presented an extreme viewpoint that seemed ridiculous and is likely because you're above the threshold. K&E has 84 slots, if people with HH's grades didn't bid them, they wouldn't fill up. And K&E fills up fast. Most of the SA spots are at the big Chi firms...


Yes, most of the Chicago spots ARE at the big firms. Which are more grade selective. Which is why straight Chicago bidding at or below median isn't a good idea unless you're a special snowflake. Which most people aren't.

And if you two are going to keep waving your dicks at each other, take it to PMs.

Yes. While I enjoy watching two blind people argue about a piece of art as much as the next person, this is annoying.




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