Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

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Anonymous User
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Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:01 pm

I'm a recent grad who is going to be starting at a big law firm in NYC paying 160k and I'm having a significantly hard time finding an apartment in the city ahead of my start date in late Sept.

I've looked at a few places and applied at 2 places and have been rejected at both. The places I'm looking at are roughly 2750-3k/month in rent and I qualify for income since I make 40x monthly rent, but the rental places don't like the fact that I don't have much in my bank account (~5k). Furthermore, I can't get a guarantor as I don't know anyone who makes 80-120x monthly rent and willing to sign for me.

The rental places are willing to rent only if I can come up with 6 months rent up front. My credit score isn't necessarily the problem either. I'm high 600's which is maybe slightly above average, though not necessarily very good.

Any suggestions? I'm also out like $500 in NY apartment application fees so I'm hoping to resolve this quickly.

09042014
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:19 pm

I'd ask for the money back if they are just going to deny you for bullshit, tickey tac reasons.

timbs4339
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:25 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I'd ask for the money back if they are just going to deny you for bullshit, tickey tac reasons.


lol they don't play that way.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a recent grad who is going to be starting at a big law firm in NYC paying 160k and I'm having a significantly hard time finding an apartment in the city ahead of my start date in late Sept.

I've looked at a few places and applied at 2 places and have been rejected at both. The places I'm looking at are roughly 2750-3k/month in rent and I qualify for income since I make 40x monthly rent, but the rental places don't like the fact that I don't have much in my bank account (~5k). Furthermore, I can't get a guarantor as I don't know anyone who makes 80-120x monthly rent and willing to sign for me.

The rental places are willing to rent only if I can come up with 6 months rent up front. My credit score isn't necessarily the problem either. I'm high 600's which is maybe slightly above average, though not necessarily very good.

Any suggestions? I'm also out like $500 in NY apartment application fees so I'm hoping to resolve this quickly.


Why do you need such high rent? Are you looking only at luxury apartments?

09042014
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:28 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I'd ask for the money back if they are just going to deny you for bullshit, tickey tac reasons.


lol they don't play that way.



Threaten to sue them for fraud or something. You don't actually have to do it. Totally bullshit unless their contract was litearlly, you give me 500 dollars and I can reject you for any tiny reason I want. And even then you can still threaten to sue because it was in bad faith. Doesn't even matter if you can or not.

Alternatively, ask to use their bathroom and upper deck them.

Themaddh
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby Themaddh » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:31 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I'd ask for the money back if they are just going to deny you for bullshit, tickey tac reasons.


lol they don't play that way.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a recent grad who is going to be starting at a big law firm in NYC paying 160k and I'm having a significantly hard time finding an apartment in the city ahead of my start date in late Sept.

I've looked at a few places and applied at 2 places and have been rejected at both. The places I'm looking at are roughly 2750-3k/month in rent and I qualify for income since I make 40x monthly rent, but the rental places don't like the fact that I don't have much in my bank account (~5k). Furthermore, I can't get a guarantor as I don't know anyone who makes 80-120x monthly rent and willing to sign for me.

The rental places are willing to rent only if I can come up with 6 months rent up front. My credit score isn't necessarily the problem either. I'm high 600's which is maybe slightly above average, though not necessarily very good.

Any suggestions? I'm also out like $500 in NY apartment application fees so I'm hoping to resolve this quickly.


Why do you need such high rent? Are you looking only at luxury apartments?


First of all you should absolutely be able to get those application fees back especially if you were up front with your financials (which you should always be). I have gotten numerous fees back on failed apartment applications after excuses like the one you've mentioned. Just be clear to them that they cannot take your money when they know they are going to turn you down, or if they are going to take multiple applications at the same time for the same apartment. The guy directly above me is right, take his approach. Also, which companies are you dealing with?

You should also look into Insurent and other guarantor services.

Also, 6 months rent up front is entirely absurd, and you should not pay it under any circumstances.

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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:34 pm

Well, I guess I don't really need a 2750-3k/month apartment. It really isn't a luxury building. It's a relatively small 1 bedroom near my work. Has a doorman, but not a gym or pool or anything like that. I didn't think getting a 3k/month apartment would be difficult off of 160k so I guess I figured that would be in the budget. I have loans, but not sticker-type loans (more like ~110-125 so the loan repayments not going to be as income-diminishing.

I guess what I'm asking is are the two landlords I've tried to use par for the course or are they outliers and most places will accept my rental application on income alone?

Themaddh
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby Themaddh » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Well, I guess I don't really need a 2750-3k/month apartment. It really isn't a luxury building. It's a relatively small 1 bedroom near my work. Has a doorman, but not a gym or pool or anything like that. I didn't think getting a 3k/month apartment would be difficult off of 160k so I guess I figured that would be in the budget. I have loans, but not sticker-type loans (more like ~110-125 so the loan repayments not going to be as income-diminishing.

I guess what I'm asking is are the two landlords I've tried to use par for the course or are they outliers and most places will accept my rental application on income alone?


Very hard to tell, I haven't been in your situation. 40x is the norm, I don't know of any norms requiring money in the bank. Be upfront with landlords to save both parties time and money. Look into guarantor services they usually cost about a month's rent.

timbs4339
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:02 pm

Themaddh wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I'd ask for the money back if they are just going to deny you for bullshit, tickey tac reasons.


lol they don't play that way.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a recent grad who is going to be starting at a big law firm in NYC paying 160k and I'm having a significantly hard time finding an apartment in the city ahead of my start date in late Sept.

I've looked at a few places and applied at 2 places and have been rejected at both. The places I'm looking at are roughly 2750-3k/month in rent and I qualify for income since I make 40x monthly rent, but the rental places don't like the fact that I don't have much in my bank account (~5k). Furthermore, I can't get a guarantor as I don't know anyone who makes 80-120x monthly rent and willing to sign for me.

The rental places are willing to rent only if I can come up with 6 months rent up front. My credit score isn't necessarily the problem either. I'm high 600's which is maybe slightly above average, though not necessarily very good.

Any suggestions? I'm also out like $500 in NY apartment application fees so I'm hoping to resolve this quickly.


Why do you need such high rent? Are you looking only at luxury apartments?


First of all you should absolutely be able to get those application fees back especially if you were up front with your financials (which you should always be). I have gotten numerous fees back on failed apartment applications after excuses like the one you've mentioned. Just be clear to them that they cannot take your money when they know they are going to turn you down, or if they are going to take multiple applications at the same time for the same apartment. The guy directly above me is right, take his approach. Also, which companies are you dealing with?

You should also look into Insurent and other guarantor services.

Also, 6 months rent up front is entirely absurd, and you should not pay it under any circumstances.


He should definitely try, but don't be surprised if they turn you down. There are some sketchy management companies there- they do not care about their reputation or Yelp reviews and people threaten to sue them all the time.

timbs4339
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Well, I guess I don't really need a 2750-3k/month apartment. It really isn't a luxury building. It's a relatively small 1 bedroom near my work. Has a doorman, but not a gym or pool or anything like that. I didn't think getting a 3k/month apartment would be difficult off of 160k so I guess I figured that would be in the budget. I have loans, but not sticker-type loans (more like ~110-125 so the loan repayments not going to be as income-diminishing.

I guess what I'm asking is are the two landlords I've tried to use par for the course or are they outliers and most places will accept my rental application on income alone?


This really does seem like bad luck even for NYC. 6 months is excessive. But you usually need to come up with first/security deposit or first/last/security deposit. I'm not sure 5K will cut it.

You need to get the terms up front, and don't be afraid to negotiate.

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NYC2012
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby NYC2012 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:06 pm

+1 for the Insurent suggestion. NYC Slumlords are awful.

NanaP
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby NanaP » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote: 2750-3k/month



Am I the only one who thinks this is absurd for someone straight out if law school? Save your money, and you also have over $100k in loans?....get a cheaper apartment, those guys did you a favor by denying you......you could also try getting a roommate....no way you should pay that much right out of law school, even if you're making 160k....

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:22 pm

NanaP wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: 2750-3k/month



Am I the only one who thinks this is absurd for someone straight out if law school? Save your money, and you also have over $100k in loans?....get a cheaper apartment, those guys did you a favor by denying you......you could also try getting a roommate....no way you should pay that much right out of law school, even if you're making 160k....

I agree, but OP isn't looking for financial advice.

OP: You probably have done this already, but just in case you haven't — get your firm to provide a letter with your start date and salary.

Also, get future landlords, agents, whoever you deal with, to tell you explicitly before you apply that it's no problem that you haven't started working yet. Don't apply if they won't tell you this. Getting application fees back is probably not going to happen; they're usually pretty clear that they're nonrefundable regardless of whether you are approved, which is bullshit, but standard in NYC. Whether or not it's legally enforceable, they're probably not gonna just hand you back your cash.

09042014
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:26 pm

NanaP wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: 2750-3k/month



Am I the only one who thinks this is absurd for someone straight out if law school? Save your money, and you also have over $100k in loans?....get a cheaper apartment, those guys did you a favor by denying you......you could also try getting a roommate....no way you should pay that much right out of law school, even if you're making 160k....


Just do "top 2% of income earners but living with some guy you met on Craigslist who leaves his pizza boxes on your stove."

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BVest
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby BVest » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:30 pm

Ask at the firm if they have an agent they recommend for new hires. You can't be the first new hire they've had who didn't have $20k before their first paycheck. It may well mean that you end up paying a commission, so be sure you like the apt enough to stay there beyond the term of the initial lease to get your money's worth.

timbs4339
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:34 pm

NanaP wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: 2750-3k/month



Am I the only one who thinks this is absurd for someone straight out if law school? Save your money, and you also have over $100k in loans?....get a cheaper apartment, those guys did you a favor by denying you......you could also try getting a roommate....no way you should pay that much right out of law school, even if you're making 160k....


As someone who lives in one of those cheaper apartments (a 2K a month studio with roaches for roommates), no, it's not. Unwise, maybe (OP should look a bit more), but not absurd for this city.
Last edited by timbs4339 on Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:35 pm

On rereading this, OP... you're gonna have to come up with more money no matter what. Six months is bogus but you will need at least first month, security, and probably a broker's fee, and that's more than you have in your savings.

If you can't come up with the cash before starting work, then sublet on Craigslist for a couple months.

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FlanAl
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby FlanAl » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:39 pm

I thought I heard somewhere that firms usually help associates find places to live, is that just for summers?

Anonymous User
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:47 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
NanaP wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: 2750-3k/month



Am I the only one who thinks this is absurd for someone straight out if law school? Save your money, and you also have over $100k in loans?....get a cheaper apartment, those guys did you a favor by denying you......you could also try getting a roommate....no way you should pay that much right out of law school, even if you're making 160k....


Just do "top 2% of income earners but living with some guy you met on Craigslist who leaves his pizza boxes on your stove."



In NYC? More like medianpwned.

imchuckbass58
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby imchuckbass58 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:50 pm

Look at equity apartments. They're a bit on the steep side, but depending what neighborhoods you're looking at they have stuff in your price range. When I leased from them I didn't have to prove income or provide a bank statement. Just wrote down what I was making and they ran a credit check and I was approved on the spot. My credit score is 780+ though - not sure if that makes a difference.

http://www.equityapartments.com/new-yor ... ments.aspx

Also, if you move away from corporate landlords, you'll get more leniency on the income requirements. But virtually every landlord will require first month's rent + security deposit, so you're going to be cutting it close with only $5k in the bank.

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sundance95
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby sundance95 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:52 pm

Have you thought about requesting an advance? Not ideal, I know, but might help.

NanaP
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby NanaP » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:16 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
NanaP wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: 2750-3k/month



Am I the only one who thinks this is absurd for someone straight out if law school? Save your money, and you also have over $100k in loans?....get a cheaper apartment, those guys did you a favor by denying you......you could also try getting a roommate....no way you should pay that much right out of law school, even if you're making 160k....


As someone who lives in one of those cheaper apartments (a 2K a month studio with roaches for roommates), no, it's not. Unwise, maybe (OP should look a bit more), but not absurd for this city.



I completely understand that....but I mean right out of school, he/she can't find a classmate who will work in the city to go in on an apt?...at least for the first year until settled in?

timbs4339
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:28 pm

NanaP wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
NanaP wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: 2750-3k/month



Am I the only one who thinks this is absurd for someone straight out if law school? Save your money, and you also have over $100k in loans?....get a cheaper apartment, those guys did you a favor by denying you......you could also try getting a roommate....no way you should pay that much right out of law school, even if you're making 160k....


As someone who lives in one of those cheaper apartments (a 2K a month studio with roaches for roommates), no, it's not. Unwise, maybe (OP should look a bit more), but not absurd for this city.



I completely understand that....but I mean right out of school, he/she can't find a classmate who will work in the city to go in on an apt?...at least for the first year until settled in?


No idea what OPs situation is, but when coming from out-of-state (especially a non-T14) it's not inconceivable to not know a single person who fits the bill that you feel comfortable living with. Roommate situations (especially when all are working stressful jobs) can quickly turn acrimonious, even if you know and are friends with the person, and are a risk that way.

aces
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby aces » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:38 pm

Most firms seem to be willing to offer a salary advance. I would ask your recruiting office; even if your firm doesn't advertise an advance, I imagine they might be willing to do so upon request.

michaelbluth
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby michaelbluth » Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:18 am

I started to type, then realized that dixiecupdrinking said everything I was about to say. The NYC housing market is a miserable, miserable place and the amount of cash required for move-in to a permanent place is insane. Subletting can suck, but it may be your best option if your firm can't advance you enough to get your own place.

Just be careful that it's legitimately a sublet, and not a bait-and-switch situation. "I am/my roommate is moving out of the city and I need someone to take my/his room until the lease is up in 3 months" can quickly turn into a situation where the remaining roommate or landlord demands that you sign for a full year. (I'm not sure that it's legal, but I've seen it done.) You may be better off looking to sublet from someone who will be out of town for a while than taking over the lease from someone who's leaving for good.

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Reinhardt
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Re: Trouble securing NY Apartment on income alone

Postby Reinhardt » Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:25 am

OP might be married, in which case he or she already has a roommate.




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