State clerkship v. Shit law firm

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Anonymous User
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State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:21 pm

Haggadah HHFA
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby rad lulz » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:29 pm

.
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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:32 pm

Hugh h hbh
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champ33
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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby champ33 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:35 pm

I'd go w the shit law firm. That is a pretty good salary and from what I can tell, the purpose of doing a NJ state clerkship is to make yourself more marketable to firms similar to the one you already presumably have an offer at. On the other hand maybe you could have a shot at an area of law you are more interested in after the clerkship. Best of luck.

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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:37 pm

I want biglaw. Can I lateral?
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Bronte
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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby Bronte » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:37 pm

I assume this ID firm does not offer the option of deferring for a year while you do the state clerkship? Could be worth asking.

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Nova
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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby Nova » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:38 pm

I would take the job

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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby Nova » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I want biglaw. Can I lateral?

from what I understand, odds would be greatly stacked against you

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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:40 pm

They have ex biglaw ppl there though if that matters. Along with many t14 grads and its not all Low end id but not biglaw

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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:41 pm

Maybe better to do the clerkship and hope for biglaw then

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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:43 pm

Nova wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I want biglaw. Can I lateral?

from what I understand, odds would be greatly stacked against you


Why?

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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby 20160810 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:46 pm

I would take the clerkship, and it wouldn't be a particularly hard choice. There are always going to be shitlaw ID mills out there needing warm bodies, so it's not as if this is your first, last, and only chance for a gig like this. But once you take it, you're going to be doing tons of really unchallenging, uninteresting work and you will learn nothing. A clerkship like this might have a preftige factor of 0, but that's OK, because you're going to learn a bunch and improve your writing skills, and that has value. Take the year, focus on learning as much as you can and adding as much value as possible to your skill set, network like crazy, and see if a better job pops up.

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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:55 pm

SBL wrote:I would take the clerkship, and it wouldn't be a particularly hard choice. There are always going to be shitlaw ID mills out there needing warm bodies, so it's not as if this is your first, last, and only chance for a gig like this. But once you take it, you're going to be doing tons of really unchallenging, uninteresting work and you will learn nothing. A clerkship like this might have a preftige factor of 0, but that's OK, because you're going to learn a bunch and improve your writing skills, and that has value. Take the year, focus on learning as much as you can and adding as much value as possible to your skill set, network like crazy, and see if a better job pops up.


Any firm that does work where an insurance co pays the bill is shitty?

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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
SBL wrote:I would take the clerkship, and it wouldn't be a particularly hard choice. There are always going to be shitlaw ID mills out there needing warm bodies, so it's not as if this is your first, last, and only chance for a gig like this. But once you take it, you're going to be doing tons of really unchallenging, uninteresting work and you will learn nothing. A clerkship like this might have a preftige factor of 0, but that's OK, because you're going to learn a bunch and improve your writing skills, and that has value. Take the year, focus on learning as much as you can and adding as much value as possible to your skill set, network like crazy, and see if a better job pops up.


Any firm that does work where an insurance co pays the bill is shitty?

It totally depends on the kind of work, I suppose, but often this kind of stuff doesn't pay especially well so they make up for it by being super high-volume. A lot of the actual work is incredibly rote and unchallenging (plugging shit into templates all diggity day loooong), and you end up feeling like you work in a coal mine. Same thing with foreclosure mills that have associates filing relief from stay motions 24/7/365.

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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby rad lulz » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
SBL wrote:I would take the clerkship, and it wouldn't be a particularly hard choice. There are always going to be shitlaw ID mills out there needing warm bodies, so it's not as if this is your first, last, and only chance for a gig like this. But once you take it, you're going to be doing tons of really unchallenging, uninteresting work and you will learn nothing. A clerkship like this might have a preftige factor of 0, but that's OK, because you're going to learn a bunch and improve your writing skills, and that has value. Take the year, focus on learning as much as you can and adding as much value as possible to your skill set, network like crazy, and see if a better job pops up.


Any firm that does work where an insurance co pays the bill is shitty?

Speaking in generalities:

ID places are generally mills where the work is the same crap over and over and over and insurance cos. are stingy as hell making your work hard.

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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby Bronte » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
SBL wrote:I would take the clerkship, and it wouldn't be a particularly hard choice. There are always going to be shitlaw ID mills out there needing warm bodies, so it's not as if this is your first, last, and only chance for a gig like this. But once you take it, you're going to be doing tons of really unchallenging, uninteresting work and you will learn nothing. A clerkship like this might have a preftige factor of 0, but that's OK, because you're going to learn a bunch and improve your writing skills, and that has value. Take the year, focus on learning as much as you can and adding as much value as possible to your skill set, network like crazy, and see if a better job pops up.


Any firm that does work where an insurance co pays the bill is shitty?


No. Insurance defense is a term of art that refers to specific type of practice. The firms are on contract to handle small claims that insurance companies don't want to settle. They're the attorneys on the other side of slip and falls. Major insurance litigation, e.g., litigation between an insurer and a reinsurer for $200 million, is handled by big law firms.

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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby stillwater » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:01 pm

Bronte wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
SBL wrote:I would take the clerkship, and it wouldn't be a particularly hard choice. There are always going to be shitlaw ID mills out there needing warm bodies, so it's not as if this is your first, last, and only chance for a gig like this. But once you take it, you're going to be doing tons of really unchallenging, uninteresting work and you will learn nothing. A clerkship like this might have a preftige factor of 0, but that's OK, because you're going to learn a bunch and improve your writing skills, and that has value. Take the year, focus on learning as much as you can and adding as much value as possible to your skill set, network like crazy, and see if a better job pops up.


Any firm that does work where an insurance co pays the bill is shitty?


No. Insurance defense is a term of art that refers to specific type of practice. The firms are on contract to handle small claims that insurance companies don't want to settle. They're the attorneys on the other side of slip and falls. Major insurance litigation, e.g., litigation between an insurer and a reinsurer for $200 million, is handled by big law firms.


Insurance defense is a term of art for shitlaw.

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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:07 pm

Bronte wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
SBL wrote:I would take the clerkship, and it wouldn't be a particularly hard choice. There are always going to be shitlaw ID mills out there needing warm bodies, so it's not as if this is your first, last, and only chance for a gig like this. But once you take it, you're going to be doing tons of really unchallenging, uninteresting work and you will learn nothing. A clerkship like this might have a preftige factor of 0, but that's OK, because you're going to learn a bunch and improve your writing skills, and that has value. Take the year, focus on learning as much as you can and adding as much value as possible to your skill set, network like crazy, and see if a better job pops up.


Any firm that does work where an insurance co pays the bill is shitty?


No. Insurance defense is a term of art that refers to specific type of practice. The firms are on contract to handle small claims that insurance companies don't want to settle. They're the attorneys on the other side of slip and falls. Major insurance litigation, e.g., litigation between an insurer and a reinsurer for $200 million, is handled by big
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby 20160810 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:10 pm

I mean trying to figure out whether your firm fits some internet poster's definition of shitlaw is a little silly. If you've looked at the work, looked at what they're willing to pay, and you think it's a good deal, then go for it. Shitlaw is in the eye of the beholder. I think people are just speaking in generalities when they say that ID work sucks.

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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Bronte wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
SBL wrote:I would take the clerkship, and it wouldn't be a particularly hard choice. There are always going to be shitlaw ID mills out there needing warm bodies, so it's not as if this is your first, last, and only chance for a gig like this. But once you take it, you're going to be doing tons of really unchallenging, uninteresting work and you will learn nothing. A clerkship like this might have a preftige factor of 0, but that's OK, because you're going to learn a bunch and improve your writing skills, and that has value. Take the year, focus on learning as much as you can and adding as much value as possible to your skill set, network like crazy, and see if a better job pops up.


Any firm that does work where an insurance co pays the bill is shitty?


No. Insurance defense is a term of art that refers to specific type of practice. The firms are on contract to handle small claims that insurance companies don't want to settle. They're the attorneys on the other side of slip and falls. Major insurance litigation, e.g., litigation between an insurer and a reinsurer for $200 million, is handled by big

Trying to figure out, based in this description, what level firm this is and whether I can move to biglaw from here.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BeautifulSW
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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby BeautifulSW » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:17 pm

A state clerkship will make you a much better writer because you will quickly learn what you, reading for the court, hate.

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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So then what about a midsized firm where there's an employment litigation practice billing like 250 an hour and where the firm usually bills anywhere between 70-150k per case. And obv they represent the insured and the insurance co pays the attys fees and any settlement. Where you know, you engage in whatever litigation needed...extensive motion practice, doc review, experts. No half-adding the case.


I work at a firm like this in a flyover state and it's not shitlaw. We recently hand an employment trial (sexual harassment, retaliation, serious extenuating circumstances with an employee who probably should not have been hired, etc.) and billed like $300K on the thing. LOL. There was zero cut and paste or serial filing of BS motions going on, and it was pretty cool, involving a number of issues of first impression in the state (mostly evidence related).

We also do a significant amount of access disputes for rich people, often funded by title insurance companies. Those too end up billing huge, at least for a firm of ~25-30 attorneys.

There is very, very little attrition and it's almost never forced. If you start and are good, you can stay forever and WILL eventually be a partner making way, way more than the average person in this state (not a million, but way over six figures and you can coach your kids' sports teams). Anyways, this may not be applicable to a question about an ID firm in NJ, but hey, it's something. I might start another thread about this sort of market in flyover states, because no one ever talks about it here.

This, to me at least, is not shitlaw. Bill at full rate and there is little pressure to slave away endlessly on cut and paste bullshit.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:21 pm

BeautifulSW wrote:A state clerkship will make you a much better writer because you will quickly learn what you, reading for the court, hate.

This is so, so, so credited.

After a year of clerking, I can't tell you the number of times I've finished reading someone's motion and supporting pleadings only to be left guessing (1.) what the movant wants and (2.) what the legal basis for the request is.

No one who has clerked in any capacity will ever submit motions like that, at least.

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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby Bronte » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:24 pm

stillwater wrote:
Bronte wrote:No. Insurance defense is a term of art that refers to specific type of practice. The firms are on contract to handle small claims that insurance companies don't want to settle. They're the attorneys on the other side of slip and falls. Major insurance litigation, e.g., litigation between an insurer and a reinsurer for $200 million, is handled by big law firms.


Insurance defense is a term of art for shitlaw.


I didn't say otherwise, but I don't really see how you're adding anything to the discussion.

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Re: State clerkship v. Shit law firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Bronte wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
SBL wrote:I would take the clerkship, and it wouldn't be a particularly hard choice. There are always going to be shitlaw ID mills out there needing warm bodies, so it's not as if this is your first, last, and only chance for a gig like this. But once you take it, you're going to be doing tons of really unchallenging, uninteresting work and you will learn nothing. A clerkship like this might have a preftige factor of 0, but that's OK, because you're going to learn a bunch and improve your writing skills, and that has value. Take the year, focus on learning as much as you can and adding as much value as possible to your skill set, network like crazy, and see if a better job pops up.


Any firm that does work where an insurance co pays the bill is shitty?


No. Insurance defense is a term of art that refers to specific type of practice. The firms are on contract to handle small claims that insurance companies don't want to settle. They're the attorneys on the other side of slip and falls. Major insurance litigation, e.g., litigation between an insurer and a reinsurer for $200 million, is handled by
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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