Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

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Anonymous User
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Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:31 pm

Had my midsummer review on Wednesday. Wasn't great - more than one minor complaint from supervising attorneys. Was framed as constructive criticism. I don't want to get too specific, but I'm wondering how bad this is likely to be. Firm has 100% offer rate pretty much every year, medium summer class. Should I assume this is the first step to a no offer, constructive feedback, or what?

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Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:Had my midsummer review on Wednesday. Wasn't great - more than one minor complaint from supervising attorneys. Was framed as constructive criticism. I don't want to get too specific, but I'm wondering how bad this is likely to be. Firm has 100% offer rate pretty much every year, medium summer class. Should I assume this is the first step to a no offer, constructive feedback, or what?


Big firm attorney who has written summer reviews here:

Don't fret about what you can't control or the past. Internalize the feedback and use it as a chance to improve. Surely full time offers have gone to 'most improved' type SAs in the past.

Having said that, it is concerning news.

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Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Had my midsummer review on Wednesday. Wasn't great - more than one minor complaint from supervising attorneys. Was framed as constructive criticism. I don't want to get too specific, but I'm wondering how bad this is likely to be. Firm has 100% offer rate pretty much every year, medium summer class. Should I assume this is the first step to a no offer, constructive feedback, or what?


Big firm attorney who has written summer reviews here:

Don't fret about what you can't control or the past. Internalize the feedback and use it as a chance to improve. Surely full time offers have gone to 'most improved' type SAs in the past.

Having said that, it is concerning news.
Does it matter if the complaints seemed to be minor, albeit multiple? How common are such complaints? Are most midsummer reviews all positive?

I am working on improving, obviously, though it doesn't help that we went straight to a day off afterward, but I can't shake the nerves that came from it.

anonmyuos
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Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby anonmyuos » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:00 am

You're anonymous. Post a general summary of the feedback you received. There's a significant difference between "Didn't find exactly what I wanted and missed a few cases I thought should be found" versus "Unusable work product and gave it to me two days late." Without a summary, it's really hard to tell whether you're overreacting.

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Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:15 am

anonmyuos wrote:You're anonymous. Post a general summary of the feedback you received. There's a significant difference between "Didn't find exactly what I wanted and missed a few cases I thought should be found" versus "Unusable work product and gave it to me two days late." Without a summary, it's really hard to tell whether you're overreacting.
No work product or deadline issues - I think those were good to good+. That's why it's hard to say without being too obvious.

Something like this: Reviewer says that one partner complained that you were too friendly with him, and a couple associates said that you don't have enough of a corporate look or presentation.

The reviewer kind of took those to form a general view of my demeanor (which is fairly accurate, but I've been working hard and I'm happy to continue adapting for the rest of the summer and if I get an offer) and made a point of saying that even if I don't think it's important, it's important to the clients and it's important to the firm, so I should be aware of it going forward and I should adapt.

I went back and apologized to the partner, and he was very reasonable, saying things like it's not a big deal to me personally and one incident is not a big deal at all, but the point of the summer program is to learn this kind of thing, etc. And of course, I'm being more careful with my presentation and formality generally.

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Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Had my midsummer review on Wednesday. Wasn't great - more than one minor complaint from supervising attorneys. Was framed as constructive criticism. I don't want to get too specific, but I'm wondering how bad this is likely to be. Firm has 100% offer rate pretty much every year, medium summer class. Should I assume this is the first step to a no offer, constructive feedback, or what?


Big firm attorney who has written summer reviews here:

Don't fret about what you can't control or the past. Internalize the feedback and use it as a chance to improve. Surely full time offers have gone to 'most improved' type SAs in the past.

Having said that, it is concerning news.


Not to insult your experience as I am merely a summer, but if the amount of summers I've spoken to with "mediocre" reviews were all no offered, my firm with a historical 100% offer rate would be dropping down to like 50% this year. I'm not saying don't work to correct the criticisms. I'm just saying that from my limited anecdotal experience it seems that reviews of 5 weeks of work can be bullshit based on factors outside of the summer's control, and reviewers know this. Seems to me the only way it's "concerning news" is if you know for a fact you're the only one who heard something negative (which I really doubt is the case) or the negativity was extreme (which from your description does not seem to be the case).

joetheplumber
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Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby joetheplumber » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:
anonmyuos wrote:You're anonymous. Post a general summary of the feedback you received. There's a significant difference between "Didn't find exactly what I wanted and missed a few cases I thought should be found" versus "Unusable work product and gave it to me two days late." Without a summary, it's really hard to tell whether you're overreacting.
No work product or deadline issues - I think those were good to good+. That's why it's hard to say without being too obvious.

Something like this: Reviewer says that one partner complained that you were too friendly with him, and a couple associates said that you don't have enough of a corporate look or presentation.

The reviewer kind of took those to form a general view of my demeanor (which is fairly accurate, but I've been working hard and I'm happy to continue adapting for the rest of the summer and if I get an offer) and made a point of saying that even if I don't think it's important, it's important to the clients and it's important to the firm, so I should be aware of it going forward and I should adapt.

I went back and apologized to the partner, and he was very reasonable, saying things like it's not a big deal to me personally and one incident is not a big deal at all, but the point of the summer program is to learn this kind of thing, etc. And of course, I'm being more careful with my presentation and formality generally.


I'm confused. What does the partner mean when you are too friendly with him? What did you say/do? Its kind of weird that being too friendly is a bad thing unless you were being a total suck-up and thats what he means. Also, do you know what is wrong with your presentation? Are you too shy, always asking for help, nervous, scared, etc. What does not enough of a corporate look mean? You need more stache on your face?
You should find out what exactly they mean and improve on that.

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Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby Lasers » Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:12 am

joetheplumber wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
anonmyuos wrote:You're anonymous. Post a general summary of the feedback you received. There's a significant difference between "Didn't find exactly what I wanted and missed a few cases I thought should be found" versus "Unusable work product and gave it to me two days late." Without a summary, it's really hard to tell whether you're overreacting.
No work product or deadline issues - I think those were good to good+. That's why it's hard to say without being too obvious.

Something like this: Reviewer says that one partner complained that you were too friendly with him, and a couple associates said that you don't have enough of a corporate look or presentation.

The reviewer kind of took those to form a general view of my demeanor (which is fairly accurate, but I've been working hard and I'm happy to continue adapting for the rest of the summer and if I get an offer) and made a point of saying that even if I don't think it's important, it's important to the clients and it's important to the firm, so I should be aware of it going forward and I should adapt.

I went back and apologized to the partner, and he was very reasonable, saying things like it's not a big deal to me personally and one incident is not a big deal at all, but the point of the summer program is to learn this kind of thing, etc. And of course, I'm being more careful with my presentation and formality generally.


I'm confused. What does the partner mean when you are too friendly with him? What did you say/do? Its kind of weird that being too friendly is a bad thing unless you were being a total suck-up and thats what he means. Also, do you know what is wrong with your presentation? Are you too shy, always asking for help, nervous, scared, etc. What does not enough of a corporate look mean? You need more stache on your face?
You should find out what exactly they mean and improve on that.

haha, i found that oddly humorous.

either you were getting too chummy and said something inappropriate, or your firm is full of lawyers with sticks up their asses.

also, not looking "corporate" enough? really? what does that even mean? are you wearing pants to work? i think that could be an issue if you weren't.

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englawyer
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Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby englawyer » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:
anonmyuos wrote:You're anonymous. Post a general summary of the feedback you received. There's a significant difference between "Didn't find exactly what I wanted and missed a few cases I thought should be found" versus "Unusable work product and gave it to me two days late." Without a summary, it's really hard to tell whether you're overreacting.
No work product or deadline issues - I think those were good to good+. That's why it's hard to say without being too obvious.

Something like this: Reviewer says that one partner complained that you were too friendly with him, and a couple associates said that you don't have enough of a corporate look or presentation.

The reviewer kind of took those to form a general view of my demeanor (which is fairly accurate, but I've been working hard and I'm happy to continue adapting for the rest of the summer and if I get an offer) and made a point of saying that even if I don't think it's important, it's important to the clients and it's important to the firm, so I should be aware of it going forward and I should adapt.

I went back and apologized to the partner, and he was very reasonable, saying things like it's not a big deal to me personally and one incident is not a big deal at all, but the point of the summer program is to learn this kind of thing, etc. And of course, I'm being more careful with my presentation and formality generally.


this seems like stuff you can fix. buy new clothes etc. that better fit into the firm's corporate culture and you should be fine. try to figure out what styles and brands other people are wearing and copy it.

NYstate
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Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby NYstate » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:07 am

Dude: you need a new look right away- like today. Go to a good hair salon and get an expensive haircut. Get new shoes and keep them polished. Go to a store that has a personal shopper or Brooks Brothers and tell them that you need to look professional now. Spend what you need to. Tell them your job depends on it.

Maybe find an etiquette book of how to be professional. This is your boss not your buddy. And don't swear or tell inappropriate jokes.

There is no point in being so frugal that you get no offered. If you stand out this much you are already in trouble. I can easily see someone getting no offered if they look sloppy to the clients.

You can fix this but go in on Monday with a whole new look. Look like a grown up professional. Get a professional looking bag for your work related stuff. Don't use a backpack.

I'm being completely serious. You have one foot out the door. Spend the money you are earning. Go shopping this weekend and come in Monday looking like a lawyer people would spend a lot of money to hire .

Ps. You aren't the guy who was considering buying reversible pants are you?

NYstate
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Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby NYstate » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:22 am

Anonymous User wrote:
anonmyuos wrote:You're anonymous. Post a general summary of the feedback you received. There's a significant difference between "Didn't find exactly what I wanted and missed a few cases I thought should be found" versus "Unusable work product and gave it to me two days late." Without a summary, it's really hard to tell whether you're overreacting.
No work product or deadline issues - I think those were good to good+. That's why it's hard to say without being too obvious.

Something like this: Reviewer says that one partner complained that you were too friendly with him, and a couple associates said that you don't have enough of a corporate look or presentation.

The reviewer kind of took those to form a general view of my demeanor (which is fairly accurate, but I've been working hard and I'm happy to continue adapting for the rest of the summer and if I get an offer) and made a point of saying that even if I don't think it's important, it's important to the clients and it's important to the firm, so I should be aware of it going forward and I should adapt.

I went back and apologized to the partner, and he was very reasonable, saying things like it's not a big deal to me personally and one incident is not a big deal at all, but the point of the summer program is to learn this kind of thing, etc. And of course, I'm being more careful with my presentation and formality generally.



The fact that they think you don't see this as important is even more troubling. You have to change right away.

I have seen SAs no offered if the firm doesn't think they can be trusted with clients. You have to understand that a ton of people can do this work. You have to be the whole package or they can find someone else very easily.

Show them that you think this is important. Change, grow up, whatever it is you need to do. Don't turn into a nervous wreck just aim for quietly confident to tone down your careless ways.

I think you can turn this around if you make a dramatic improvement. But this isn't something to " continue to work on." This is your final wake-up call and you don't have a long time to fix it.

This is serious. You have to take it seriously. Not only are you hurting your chances of this job, you are hurting your chances at getting a good recommendation if you get no offered.

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Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:57 am

NYstate wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
anonmyuos wrote:You're anonymous. Post a general summary of the feedback you received. There's a significant difference between "Didn't find exactly what I wanted and missed a few cases I thought should be found" versus "Unusable work product and gave it to me two days late." Without a summary, it's really hard to tell whether you're overreacting.
No work product or deadline issues - I think those were good to good+. That's why it's hard to say without being too obvious.

Something like this: Reviewer says that one partner complained that you were too friendly with him, and a couple associates said that you don't have enough of a corporate look or presentation.

The reviewer kind of took those to form a general view of my demeanor (which is fairly accurate, but I've been working hard and I'm happy to continue adapting for the rest of the summer and if I get an offer) and made a point of saying that even if I don't think it's important, it's important to the clients and it's important to the firm, so I should be aware of it going forward and I should adapt.

I went back and apologized to the partner, and he was very reasonable, saying things like it's not a big deal to me personally and one incident is not a big deal at all, but the point of the summer program is to learn this kind of thing, etc. And of course, I'm being more careful with my presentation and formality generally.



The fact that they think you don't see this as important is even more troubling. You have to change right away.

I have seen SAs no offered if the firm doesn't think they can be trusted with clients. You have to understand that a ton of people can do this work. You have to be the whole package or they can find someone else very easily.

Show them that you think this is important. Change, grow up, whatever it is you need to do. Don't turn into a nervous wreck just aim for quietly confident to tone down your careless ways.

I think you can turn this around if you make a dramatic improvement. But this isn't something to " continue to work on." This is your final wake-up call and you don't have a long time to fix it.

This is serious. You have to take it seriously. Not only are you hurting your chances of this job, you are hurting your chances at getting a good recommendation if you get no offered.
I didn't mean to say I don't think it's important. I was paraphrasing the feedback, which I understood to mean "even though you might think that the important thing is substance, you need to understand that this is just s important."

I appreciate the advice in this thread. Of course I am trying to improve on those issues. My question really is "how fucked", if I do make good progress on this; i.e. if people have given or gotten similar feedback, how much it was constructive feedback that is meant to turn me into a good lawyer, and how much it's just a prelude to a no offer. Also, if there is anything else I should be doing, like going to people whom I think liked working with me and asking them to be as positive as possible in reviews. Is that a good idea, or a terrible one?

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Georgia Avenue
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Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby Georgia Avenue » Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:Also, if there is anything else I should be doing, like going to people whom I think liked working with me and asking them to be as positive as possible in reviews. Is that a good idea, or a terrible one?


yeah this is a pretty bad idea

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Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:14 am

I didn't mean to say I don't think it's important. I was paraphrasing the feedback, which I understood to mean "even though you might think that the important thing is substance, you need to understand that this is just s important."

I appreciate the advice in this thread. Of course I am trying to improve on those issues. My question really is "how fucked", if I do make good progress on this; i.e. if people have given or gotten similar feedback, how much it was constructive feedback that is meant to turn me into a good lawyer, and how much it's just a prelude to a no offer. Also, if there is anything else I should be doing, like going to people whom I think liked working with me and asking them to be as positive as possible in reviews. Is that a good idea, or a terrible one?


Can you try to be more specific as to what they mean by your "demeanor"? Are you too relaxed? Not relaxed enough? Dress poorly? Are you not addressing people the right way? Slouching? Picking your nose?

Some things are harder to change than others. If you try to list them here, we can help you better, and you can realize better yourself what you're doing that's problematic.

anon168
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Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby anon168 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
anonmyuos wrote:You're anonymous. Post a general summary of the feedback you received. There's a significant difference between "Didn't find exactly what I wanted and missed a few cases I thought should be found" versus "Unusable work product and gave it to me two days late." Without a summary, it's really hard to tell whether you're overreacting.
No work product or deadline issues - I think those were good to good+. That's why it's hard to say without being too obvious.

Something like this: Reviewer says that one partner complained that you were too friendly with him, and a couple associates said that you don't have enough of a corporate look or presentation.

The reviewer kind of took those to form a general view of my demeanor (which is fairly accurate, but I've been working hard and I'm happy to continue adapting for the rest of the summer and if I get an offer) and made a point of saying that even if I don't think it's important, it's important to the clients and it's important to the firm, so I should be aware of it going forward and I should adapt.

I went back and apologized to the partner, and he was very reasonable, saying things like it's not a big deal to me personally and one incident is not a big deal at all, but the point of the summer program is to learn this kind of thing, etc. And of course, I'm being more careful with my presentation and formality generally.


Are you male or female?

I ask because this is a really weird review, esp. the way you've described it.

If you're a guy, what does partner mean by you were too "friendly" to him?? How is one too friendly without, um, coming on to a person? Are you speaking code for being gay? Not that there's anything wrong with it (cuz there's not), but some workplaces, firms included, really aren't all that receptive to gays (despite all the progress we've made in society in that respect).

Now, if you're a girl, were you coming on to the partner? Again, nothing wrong with that, but just need to be a bit more inconspicuous, I guess.

Anonymous User
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Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
I didn't mean to say I don't think it's important. I was paraphrasing the feedback, which I understood to mean "even though you might think that the important thing is substance, you need to understand that this is just s important."

I appreciate the advice in this thread. Of course I am trying to improve on those issues. My question really is "how fucked", if I do make good progress on this; i.e. if people have given or gotten similar feedback, how much it was constructive feedback that is meant to turn me into a good lawyer, and how much it's just a prelude to a no offer. Also, if there is anything else I should be doing, like going to people whom I think liked working with me and asking them to be as positive as possible in reviews. Is that a good idea, or a terrible one?


Can you try to be more specific as to what they mean by your "demeanor"? Are you too relaxed? Not relaxed enough? Dress poorly? Are you not addressing people the right way? Slouching? Picking your nose?

Some things are harder to change than others. If you try to list them here, we can help you better, and you can realize better yourself what you're doing that's problematic.
Honestly, I can't be more specific without literally saying what they told me. It wasn't that they had ten complaints about my demeanor always being terrible. It was two or three comments, each relatively minor on its own, that can be taken together to form a theme.

I don't deny that the theme is an accurate observation, and I'm working on improving on it, by making sure my clothing is pressed, my emails and meetings all err on the side of formality, and I don't come across as tired at work but it's not like the whole firm is saying, "who's that guy in jeans who emailed a racist joke to the partner"? The five attorneys who didn't make such comments would probably be surprised to hear about them. That's why my question is more, "how fucked" if I put my head down and continue to improve than "can I include smilies in an email to a judge".

ETA: It seems that I'm generating a lot of confusion by this "too friendly" phrase. I meant too informal.

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.

Postby Myself » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:49 pm

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Last edited by Myself on Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.

NotMyRealName09
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Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:01 pm

I'll just second whats been alluded to - something tells me you somehow don't know how to act like a professional, and they are afraid to have you interact with clients. That is very bad. And if you didn't realize this until your mid-summer review and have just 5 more weeks of your SA, that is difficult to correct that first perception in so little time. I don't know how you fix this - it's a little strange. others above have good advice. But, you seem to need a wholesale image and attitude correction. Like in a movie where they take the "ugly" girl and teach her to be a princess or something. Good luck.

NYstate
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Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby NYstate » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:
NYstate wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
anonmyuos wrote:You're anonymous. Post a general summary of the feedback you received. There's a significant difference between "Didn't find exactly what I wanted and missed a few cases I thought should be found" versus "Unusable work product and gave it to me two days late." Without a summary, it's really hard to tell whether you're overreacting.
No work product or deadline issues - I think those were good to good+. That's why it's hard to say without being too obvious.

Something like this: Reviewer says that one partner complained that you were too friendly with him, and a couple associates said that you don't have enough of a corporate look or presentation.

The reviewer kind of took those to form a general view of my demeanor (which is fairly accurate, but I've been working hard and I'm happy to continue adapting for the rest of the summer and if I get an offer) and made a point of saying that even if I don't think it's important, it's important to the clients and it's important to the firm, so I should be aware of it going forward and I should adapt.

I went back and apologized to the partner, and he was very reasonable, saying things like it's not a big deal to me personally and one incident is not a big deal at all, but the point of the summer program is to learn this kind of thing, etc. And of course, I'm being more careful with my presentation and formality generally.



The fact that they think you don't see this as important is even more troubling. You have to change right away.

I have seen SAs no offered if the firm doesn't think they can be trusted with clients. You have to understand that a ton of people can do this work. You have to be the whole package or they can find someone else very easily.

Show them that you think this is important. Change, grow up, whatever it is you need to do. Don't turn into a nervous wreck just aim for quietly confident to tone down your careless ways.

I think you can turn this around if you make a dramatic improvement. But this isn't something to " continue to work on." This is your final wake-up call and you don't have a long time to fix it.

This is serious. You have to take it seriously. Not only are you hurting your chances of this job, you are hurting your chances at getting a good recommendation if you get no offered.
I didn't mean to say I don't think it's important. I was paraphrasing the feedback, which I understood to mean "even though you might think that the important thing is substance, you need to understand that this is just s important."

I appreciate the advice in this thread. Of course I am trying to improve on those issues. My question really is "how fucked", if I do make good progress on this; i.e. if people have given or gotten similar feedback, how much it was constructive feedback that is meant to turn me into a good lawyer, and how much it's just a prelude to a no offer. Also, if there is anything else I should be doing, like going to people whom I think liked working with me and asking them to be as positive as possible in reviews. Is that a good idea, or a terrible one?



I think it depends on the firm. They are giving you solid, constructive criticism so the best and only thing you can do is respond to it and change your behavior. Don't go around begging for positive reviews. That is very weird. Even talking to the partner about what he said was a little weird, as he didn't bring it up to you directly. If you ask people to give you good reviews, they are probably going to report that to whoever is in charge of summers very quickly.

If you don't change, I think you are getting no offered. But I don't know the firm. If you do change, you probably have a chance. Even if you had no chance left at that firm, you still need recommendations.


You said they were correct in describing you, so the criticism isn't off base.
You don't have to be making racist jokes to be inappropriate. There are invisible boundaries if behavior and the difference might seem subtle to you, but it is obviously a big deal to them.

My suggestions were extreme based on guesses about what you might be doing. As you don't want to share, which is fine, you can only get our best guess on what is going wrong.

NYstate
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Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby NYstate » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
I didn't mean to say I don't think it's important. I was paraphrasing the feedback, which I understood to mean "even though you might think that the important thing is substance, you need to understand that this is just s important."

I appreciate the advice in this thread. Of course I am trying to improve on those issues. My question really is "how fucked", if I do make good progress on this; i.e. if people have given or gotten similar feedback, how much it was constructive feedback that is meant to turn me into a good lawyer, and how much it's just a prelude to a no offer. Also, if there is anything else I should be doing, like going to people whom I think liked working with me and asking them to be as positive as possible in reviews. Is that a good idea, or a terrible one?


Can you try to be more specific as to what they mean by your "demeanor"? Are you too relaxed? Not relaxed enough? Dress poorly? Are you not addressing people the right way? Slouching? Picking your nose?

Some things are harder to change than others. If you try to list them here, we can help you better, and you can realize better yourself what you're doing that's problematic.
Honestly, I can't be more specific without literally saying what they told me. It wasn't that they had ten complaints about my demeanor always being terrible. It was two or three comments, each relatively minor on its own, that can be taken together to form a theme.

I don't deny that the theme is an accurate observation, and I'm working on improving on it, by making sure my clothing is pressed, my emails and meetings all err on the side of formality, and I don't come across as tired at work but it's not like the whole firm is saying, "who's that guy in jeans who emailed a racist joke to the partner"? The five attorneys who didn't make such comments would probably be surprised to hear about them. That's why my question is more, "how fucked" if I put my head down and continue to improve than "can I include smilies in an email to a judge".

ETA: It seems that I'm generating a lot of confusion by this "too friendly" phrase. I meant too informal.


You still seem to be minimizing the problem here. Ill just say again that you have to make dramatic improvements quickly more than "continue to work on."

Redfactor
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:52 pm

Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby Redfactor » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:14 am

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Last edited by Redfactor on Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:58 am

Make sure you sign up for 3L oci.

NYstate
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am

Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby NYstate » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:05 am

A poster in the no offered thread suggested applying like now for clerkships of any kind. Having a clerkship helped him when he was no offered. You might want to get on that.

Were you being too informal because you thought the job was already yours?

anonmyuos
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:33 am

Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby anonmyuos » Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:
anonmyuos wrote:You're anonymous. Post a general summary of the feedback you received. There's a significant difference between "Didn't find exactly what I wanted and missed a few cases I thought should be found" versus "Unusable work product and gave it to me two days late." Without a summary, it's really hard to tell whether you're overreacting.
No work product or deadline issues - I think those were good to good+. That's why it's hard to say without being too obvious.

Something like this: Reviewer says that one partner complained that you were too friendly with him, and a couple associates said that you don't have enough of a corporate look or presentation.

The reviewer kind of took those to form a general view of my demeanor (which is fairly accurate, but I've been working hard and I'm happy to continue adapting for the rest of the summer and if I get an offer) and made a point of saying that even if I don't think it's important, it's important to the clients and it's important to the firm, so I should be aware of it going forward and I should adapt.

I went back and apologized to the partner, and he was very reasonable, saying things like it's not a big deal to me personally and one incident is not a big deal at all, but the point of the summer program is to learn this kind of thing, etc. And of course, I'm being more careful with my presentation and formality generally.


Hmm, I thought I would get an easy answer but apparently I was wrong. If this was an isolated complaint, I would say "Who cares?" and tell you to ignore. But you said this is "more than one minor complaint from supervising attorneys." That's disturbing.

There are two answers to this problem. One is for the short-term. One is for the long-term.

In the short-term, you've got to adjust. A personality problem is actually one of the few problems that can lead to a no-offer. Work product, assuming it's not egregiously-bad, I can improve. Personality, I can't. Whatever you need to do to conform and blend in, you should do to get that offer. Look at how others behave, and act accordingly. If in doubt, act conservative. As (someone?) said, "Better to remain silent, and be assumed dumb, than open your mouth, and prove it."

In the long-term, you need to find another place to work. Personality conflicts do not work out in the long-term. You should probably try to adjust, and try to acclimate, in the short-term, just for the sake of work-experience/resume. But you can only hide your true personality for so long. Without passing any judgment whatsoever, it's obvious you have personality clashes with the firm you're at. Whether it's on them, or on you, it exists. And it won't end well. You should aim for the job, but aim to get out. You can't exist at a firm that doesn't accept how you act naturally as a good thing. It just won't work. I don't know who's at fault (you? your firm? the bad partner?) but it's fairly obvious you should be looking to the long-term future to ensure you land softly somewhere. Take care of that first, worry about the rest later.

Redfactor
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:52 pm

Re: Mediocre midsummer review - seeking support, advice

Postby Redfactor » Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:27 am

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Last edited by Redfactor on Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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