Networking Emails

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sparty99
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Networking Emails

Postby sparty99 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:19 pm

What do you say in a networking/random email to a former alum or someone you want to have lunch with? Has anyone done this? Did they respond? Who paid for the lunch? How do you handle that part?

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superbloom
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby superbloom » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:28 pm


dell
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby dell » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:29 pm

sparty99 wrote:What do you say in a networking/random email to a former alum or someone you want to have lunch with? Has anyone done this? Did they respond? Who paid for the lunch? How do you handle that part?



viewtopic.php?f=3&t=210883

this thread has a good sample email...used it to email about 10 alums got responses from like 8 i think

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=210735


Edit: scooped on the first thread
this link takes care of the who pays question

$$$$$$
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby $$$$$$ » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:30 pm

Tip 1: Get started on this now if it is for OCI

Email:

Dear XXXXX,

I am a rising 2L at XXX Law School that is very interested in building a XXX practice in XXX city upon my graduation in XX of 2015. I will be in XXX area all summer working for _______ and would appreciate the opportunity to speak with you about XXX firm and XXX practice. I may be reached at ########## or EMAIL. Thank you for your time and consideration, I look forward to hearing back from you.

-- This format got me probably 25-35 information sessions in person and at least another 30 phone calls, leading from everywhere to nothing all the way to automatic callbacks with firms I had no reason to be in the building for. --

Tip 2: They will definitely pay for the lunch if they take you, or they could just ask you to come into the firm and talk with them there, in that case, no one pays for anything.

Tip 3: Be affable and be yourself. About half my time was spent asking about their practice, why they like it, how they got there (emphasis on THEY - people love talking about themselves). Ask questions that show you understand a little but of what they do. If they do M&A, look at the companies they represent. If they do 144A offerings, learn what it is at least so you can ask about. The other half was spent just shooting the shit and showing that I was a likable person that was easy to get along with. In real interviews you want to sell yourself hard, but here, you want to come across as confident, cool and collected. Walking into a partner's office in a confident way, ready to talk about anything will do more wonders than you would believe.

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Lwoods
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby Lwoods » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:47 pm

I've sent plenty.

Subject: this needs to be something that will make them open the email. If someone else told you to reach out to them, you should drop that name here ("referred by [x]"). If you're reaching out to an alumnus of your law school, include that connection here, but try not to act too spammy.

Salutation: this is a matter of personal preference. I personally go with "Good [morning/afternoon] [attorney's first name]" for practicing attorneys but might use more formalities with a judge or professor.

Body:
Introduce yourself briefly (rising 2L at [x] law school). If you notice you have something specific in common with the attorney (like if he was on LR and you are, too, or if you went to the same undergrad), you can identify yourself with that characteristic, too.

Next, briefly state what you're seeking and why. The "what" is usually lunch or coffee. The "why" should be something related to the person you're contacting and usually has to do with either their practice area or the city where they practice. The "what" should not be a job...even if that's what you really want...because if you open with that, and the attorney doesn't have that power, isn't on the recruiting committee, is at a firm that isn't hiring, then your email may be ignored or your request denied. If you're just seeking a conversation, though, you're more likely to get a response. You have a conversation, hopefully make a connection, and gain another person in your corner rooting for you to get a job you want.

Close with a proposed general time period ("the last week in July" "within the next month") for lunch or coffee as well as presumptive niceties ("I look forward to meeting you!").

Closing: whatever you prefer, probably nothing overly formal ("Very truly yours"). I usually go with "Best," or "Thank you." Sign your full name. Signature blocks are controversial. I don't use one as a student.


They usually respond, though I've had maybe 2 or 3 who didn't put of a dozen or more sent. It'll always feel a little awkward because it feels like a secret admirer note. But after you meet, it becomes much easier. I think it's a good idea to be prepared to pay, but in my experience the attorney always has. Just do the reach for the wallet, but don't fight it when they offer to pay. The exception might be if you clearly come from money / have a greater net worth than the person you're meeting with. Typically Peggy Post would probably advise that the person doing the inviting pay, but in the ASW of a working attorney and a starving student, the student usually licks out.

Anonymous User
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:48 pm

If a networking contact said to cc them when applying to the firm, but the firm is coming to OCI, do you let the not working contact know you are applying through OCI or what?

rad lulz
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby rad lulz » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:If a networking contact said to cc them when applying to the firm, but the firm is coming to OCI, do you let the not working contact know you are applying through OCI or what?

Sure shoot em an email

Say that you enjoyed the interview of something like that

$$$$$$
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby $$$$$$ » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:If a networking contact said to cc them when applying to the firm, but the firm is coming to OCI, do you let the not working contact know you are applying through OCI or what?


Just let them know that they are coming to campus and that you really want to interview with the firm either before or during OCI. They could set up interviews before they come to campus or make sure you get your name put at the top during OCI.

sparty99
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby sparty99 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:07 pm

$$$$$$ wrote:Tip 1: Get started on this now if it is for OCI

Email:

Dear XXXXX,

I am a rising 2L at XXX Law School that is very interested in building a XXX practice in XXX city upon my graduation in XX of 2015. I will be in XXX area all summer working for _______ and would appreciate the opportunity to speak with you about XXX firm and XXX practice. I may be reached at ########## or EMAIL. Thank you for your time and consideration, I look forward to hearing back from you.

-- This format got me probably 25-35 information sessions in person and at least another 30 phone calls, leading from everywhere to nothing all the way to automatic callbacks with firms I had no reason to be in the building for. --

Tip 2: They will definitely pay for the lunch if they take you, or they could just ask you to come into the firm and talk with them there, in that case, no one pays for anything.

Tip 3: Be affable and be yourself. About half my time was spent asking about their practice, why they like it, how they got there (emphasis on THEY - people love talking about themselves). Ask questions that show you understand a little but of what they do. If they do M&A, look at the companies they represent. If they do 144A offerings, learn what it is at least so you can ask about. The other half was spent just shooting the shit and showing that I was a likable person that was easy to get along with. In real interviews you want to sell yourself hard, but here, you want to come across as confident, cool and collected. Walking into a partner's office in a confident way, ready to talk about anything will do more wonders than you would believe.


Thanks...This is exactly what I was looking for.

sparty99
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby sparty99 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:48 pm

Hey! I got a meeting with a Partner at his office. What type of questions should I ask?

fadedsunrise
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby fadedsunrise » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:22 pm

Apologies for piggy-backing on this thread to ask another question but:

Should we be trying to email the partners whenever possible, or email everyone? I've tried doing the emailing thing with associates (both junior and mid-level) but at the end of the conversation they usually very nicely tell me something like "good luck, but I can't really help you" or something along those lines. The senior level people I end up connecting with work in-house and have been doing so for too long, so they say something along the lines of "I don't really remember how it goes, but you should probably ask CSO." This has mostly been from going to networking events and collecting cards in person though, after having a good 5-10 minute conversation.

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AllDangle
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby AllDangle » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:40 pm

Tag

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Lwoods
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby Lwoods » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:41 pm

fadedsunrise wrote:Apologies for piggy-backing on this thread to ask another question but:

Should we be trying to email the partners whenever possible, or email everyone? I've tried doing the emailing thing with associates (both junior and mid-level) but at the end of the conversation they usually very nicely tell me something like "good luck, but I can't really help you" or something along those lines. The senior level people I end up connecting with work in-house and have been doing so for too long, so they say something along the lines of "I don't really remember how it goes, but you should probably ask CSO." This has mostly been from going to networking events and collecting cards in person though, after having a good 5-10 minute conversation.


There's a difference between mass mailing to try to get a job and networking. I think it's important to make networking an ongoing process. You're building a network. These people might not be able to help you immediately, but if you can make and maintain a connection, when an opportunity comes along, that contact will want to help you.

fadedsunrise
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby fadedsunrise » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:53 pm

Lwoods wrote:
fadedsunrise wrote:Apologies for piggy-backing on this thread to ask another question but:

Should we be trying to email the partners whenever possible, or email everyone? I've tried doing the emailing thing with associates (both junior and mid-level) but at the end of the conversation they usually very nicely tell me something like "good luck, but I can't really help you" or something along those lines. The senior level people I end up connecting with work in-house and have been doing so for too long, so they say something along the lines of "I don't really remember how it goes, but you should probably ask CSO." This has mostly been from going to networking events and collecting cards in person though, after having a good 5-10 minute conversation.


There's a difference between mass mailing to try to get a job and networking. I think it's important to make networking an ongoing process. You're building a network. These people might not be able to help you immediately, but if you can make and maintain a connection, when an opportunity comes along, that contact will want to help you.


I guess my problem is that no one likes me then, partner or otherwise haha. For most people I never actually even hinted that I am trying to get a job out of them, but I guess they thought I was hopeless after I...I don't know, couldn't discuss their practice with them in detail? Didn't have above median grades? Something else? I ask open ended questions, try to ask follow-up questions if they give me any details in their responses, and generally smiles pleasantly and react with interest.

After the initial meeting with anyone I cold-emailed, they don't return any further emails I send them. When do you assume that someone you met is trying to brush you off by deleting your emails?

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Lwoods
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby Lwoods » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:09 pm

This is going to read as snarky, but I promise it's not my intent...

Do you find it difficult to make friends generally or are your difficulties specific to networking?

Networking an making friends are typically similar exercises, so if it's the latter, just treat it like you're making a new friend (while keeping the conversation PG-rated / workplace PC). I think a lot of people, particularly if they don't have a ton of W/E, can be their own worst enemy in being too serious or stiff when networking. Lawyers are just people. They want to like you.

If you have difficulty making friends in general, that's trickier. I think people generally like those with whom they share common interests. So maybe instead of (or in addition to) starting by reaching out to attorneys, get involved in activities that interest you. Make friends there, and ask if they have friends who are attorneys. On a short timeline, I know that seems tedious, but like I said, it's a continuous process.

LgllyBlnde
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby LgllyBlnde » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:46 pm

Rising 3L here. When I was interviewing for summer positions, I interviewed with this guy and because I had a pending offer, he made his decision quickly. He informed me I was his second choice, strongly implying the person that was ultimately chosen had some sort of personal connection to the firm. After exchanging a few emails, he told me to keep in touch because he thought I would be a good fit with the firm (frustrating at the time because why not just give me the position, but whatever).

My current internship, in-house, does not typically hire right out of law school, so I'm going to be that 3L looking for a job. My question is, how do I email this guy to "keep in touch" without coming off like I'm begging for a job?

sparty99
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby sparty99 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:00 pm

LgllyBlnde wrote:Rising 3L here. When I was interviewing for summer positions, I interviewed with this guy and because I had a pending offer, he made his decision quickly. He informed me I was his second choice, strongly implying the person that was ultimately chosen had some sort of personal connection to the firm. After exchanging a few emails, he told me to keep in touch because he thought I would be a good fit with the firm (frustrating at the time because why not just give me the position, but whatever).

My current internship, in-house, does not typically hire right out of law school, so I'm going to be that 3L looking for a job. My question is, how do I email this guy to "keep in touch" without coming off like I'm begging for a job?


That's funny. I'm in the exact same boat.

aliens
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby aliens » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:03 am

sparty99 wrote:
LgllyBlnde wrote:Rising 3L here. When I was interviewing for summer positions, I interviewed with this guy and because I had a pending offer, he made his decision quickly. He informed me I was his second choice, strongly implying the person that was ultimately chosen had some sort of personal connection to the firm. After exchanging a few emails, he told me to keep in touch because he thought I would be a good fit with the firm (frustrating at the time because why not just give me the position, but whatever).

My current internship, in-house, does not typically hire right out of law school, so I'm going to be that 3L looking for a job. My question is, how do I email this guy to "keep in touch" without coming off like I'm begging for a job?


That's funny. I'm in the exact same boat.


Follow up with him to send an article relevant to his practice area or to his firm. Or send him an updated resume with a note about your employment situation following graduation. Anything that keeps you in his mind. I send e-mails all the time that "reiterate my continued interest in the firm" if I talked to the person about a potential job and e-mails about current events in law if it was just a networking connection. If the attorney knows I'm job searching, I'll send them updates on that too. Like if they referred me to firm X and I get an interview with firm X, I'm e-mailing to tell them that. I also have a long list of people to e-mail when I find a job because they helped me in some way and I will say thank you to them and update them.

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Ohiobumpkin
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby Ohiobumpkin » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:04 am

tag. Thanks for this great thread.

fadedsunrise
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby fadedsunrise » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:50 pm

Lwoods wrote:This is going to read as snarky, but I promise it's not my intent...

Do you find it difficult to make friends generally or are your difficulties specific to networking?

Networking an making friends are typically similar exercises, so if it's the latter, just treat it like you're making a new friend (while keeping the conversation PG-rated / workplace PC). I think a lot of people, particularly if they don't have a ton of W/E, can be their own worst enemy in being too serious or stiff when networking. Lawyers are just people. They want to like you.

If you have difficulty making friends in general, that's trickier. I think people generally like those with whom they share common interests. So maybe instead of (or in addition to) starting by reaching out to attorneys, get involved in activities that interest you. Make friends there, and ask if they have friends who are attorneys. On a short timeline, I know that seems tedious, but like I said, it's a continuous process.


Nah, at this point I'm so cynical about the law school process that nothing comes off as snarky or judgmental.

I think I've had difficulties making friends since law school started. I consider myself a terrific listener at the expense of having nothing to contribute-I am good at getting someone's story but don't usually share anything coherent about myself because I find that there is nothing coherent or interesting TO share. I should try to get more workplace PC interests I guess.

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Lwoods
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby Lwoods » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:13 pm

fadedsunrise wrote:
Lwoods wrote:This is going to read as snarky, but I promise it's not my intent...

Do you find it difficult to make friends generally or are your difficulties specific to networking?

Networking an making friends are typically similar exercises, so if it's the latter, just treat it like you're making a new friend (while keeping the conversation PG-rated / workplace PC). I think a lot of people, particularly if they don't have a ton of W/E, can be their own worst enemy in being too serious or stiff when networking. Lawyers are just people. They want to like you.

If you have difficulty making friends in general, that's trickier. I think people generally like those with whom they share common interests. So maybe instead of (or in addition to) starting by reaching out to attorneys, get involved in activities that interest you. Make friends there, and ask if they have friends who are attorneys. On a short timeline, I know that seems tedious, but like I said, it's a continuous process.


Nah, at this point I'm so cynical about the law school process that nothing comes off as snarky or judgmental.

I think I've had difficulties making friends since law school started. I consider myself a terrific listener at the expense of having nothing to contribute-I am good at getting someone's story but don't usually share anything coherent about myself because I find that there is nothing coherent or interesting TO share. I should try to get more workplace PC interests I guess.


Actually, getting the other person to talk more can be really good. It's something we often tried to do during sorority recruitment (ages ago, when i was in undergrad) because people who get to talk about themselves a lot tend to come away feeling positive about the interaction. So asking good questions and getting the other person to talk is good.

You still don't want them to be clueless about you, though, so when you're listening, find points where you can connect. Even if it's something you don't have to say a ton on, as long as it's genuine, it'll come pretty easily. For example, say the lawyer is talking about how he just got back from a family vacation where they went whitewater rafting. Now you've never been whitewater rafting, but you think it seems interesting an you used to go camping by a lake with friends. Ask him about rafting which inserting your only tangentially related outdoor experience while expressing interest in beginner rafting ("That sounds exciting! I sometimes go camping with friends out by Lake [ ] and have enjoyed still-water boating. Whitewater must be such an adrenaline rush, though. You said it was a family vacation, righ? How old are your kids? How does a beginner get involved in it?"). That way you still open the door to let him talk more but give a little insight to yourself, giving him more fuel to ask questions if he'd like.

You want to compare, not contrast (or at least compare far more than contrast). My 1L year, a 3L tried to hit on me. If his interview skills resemble his pick-up skills, it's no surprise he was jobless. I mentioned I was a vegetarian; he said he likes meat. I told him I have a fashion degree; he responded with the obvious observation that he's not particularly fashionable. He kept asking me questions, but then kept responding with how we have nothing in common. Don't be dishonest, but just try to find connections where you can. And where there are glaring differences, maybe keep those to yourself unless you've already established a rapport (like after discussing your mutual love of baseball, you can tell the Yankee fan you're meeting with that you're a Boston fan...in a congenial way, of course).

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gonewiththewind
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Re: Networking Emails

Postby gonewiththewind » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:32 pm

Lwoods wrote:
fadedsunrise wrote:
Lwoods wrote:This is going to read as snarky, but I promise it's not my intent...

Do you find it difficult to make friends generally or are your difficulties specific to networking?

Networking an making friends are typically similar exercises, so if it's the latter, just treat it like you're making a new friend (while keeping the conversation PG-rated / workplace PC). I think a lot of people, particularly if they don't have a ton of W/E, can be their own worst enemy in being too serious or stiff when networking. Lawyers are just people. They want to like you.

If you have difficulty making friends in general, that's trickier. I think people generally like those with whom they share common interests. So maybe instead of (or in addition to) starting by reaching out to attorneys, get involved in activities that interest you. Make friends there, and ask if they have friends who are attorneys. On a short timeline, I know that seems tedious, but like I said, it's a continuous process.


Nah, at this point I'm so cynical about the law school process that nothing comes off as snarky or judgmental.

I think I've had difficulties making friends since law school started. I consider myself a terrific listener at the expense of having nothing to contribute-I am good at getting someone's story but don't usually share anything coherent about myself because I find that there is nothing coherent or interesting TO share. I should try to get more workplace PC interests I guess.


Actually, getting the other person to talk more can be really good. It's something we often tried to do during sorority recruitment (ages ago, when i was in undergrad) because people who get to talk about themselves a lot tend to come away feeling positive about the interaction. So asking good questions and getting the other person to talk is good.

You still don't want them to be clueless about you, though, so when you're listening, find points where you can connect. Even if it's something you don't have to say a ton on, as long as it's genuine, it'll come pretty easily. For example, say the lawyer is talking about how he just got back from a family vacation where they went whitewater rafting. Now you've never been whitewater rafting, but you think it seems interesting an you used to go camping by a lake with friends. Ask him about rafting which inserting your only tangentially related outdoor experience while expressing interest in beginner rafting ("That sounds exciting! I sometimes go camping with friends out by Lake [ ] and have enjoyed still-water boating. Whitewater must be such an adrenaline rush, though. You said it was a family vacation, righ? How old are your kids? How does a beginner get involved in it?"). That way you still open the door to let him talk more but give a little insight to yourself, giving him more fuel to ask questions if he'd like.

You want to compare, not contrast (or at least compare far more than contrast). My 1L year, a 3L tried to hit on me. If his interview skills resemble his pick-up skills, it's no surprise he was jobless. I mentioned I was a vegetarian; he said he likes meat. I told him I have a fashion degree; he responded with the obvious observation that he's not particularly fashionable. He kept asking me questions, but then kept responding with how we have nothing in common. Don't be dishonest, but just try to find connections where you can. And where there are glaring differences, maybe keep those to yourself unless you've already established a rapport (like after discussing your mutual love of baseball, you can tell the Yankee fan you're meeting with that you're a Boston fan...in a congenial way, of course).


Sometimes opposites attract. Maybe that's what he was going for?




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