No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

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rad lulz
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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:41 am

Nah nystate is legit

That was a pretty good and heartfelt poast

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Stanford4Me
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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby Stanford4Me » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:51 am

rad lulz wrote:Nah nystate is legit

That was a pretty good and heartfelt poast

Yeah, I appreciated the post. Definitely a perspective I never really considered.

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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby NYstate » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:03 am

TheFactor wrote:
NYstate wrote:@Stanford4me

Thanks for your post. Good luck. I think this professions focus on status and defining tourself by your career is a huge part of the problem and part of the reason people get so down on themselves. A biglaw career should really be thought of as acting. People expect to struggle and aren't ashamed if they don't make it.


But I want to suggest something from an insiders look at biglaw. You were a "marked man" from the minute your connections left the firm. Don't assume it was solely your work product at work here. I'm not saying your work was perfect. I'm saying that the way people viewed you was "tainted" by your association with people who left the firm. The first assignment just seems off- why did no one talk to you before giving this project to someone else. The second assignment sounds like you didn't get proper direction and support you needed to do the work.
Yes, perhaps your work could and should have been better. Missing a deadline is a huge error and I don't know why that happened But don't forget you had an x on your back. Maybe not all the blame is on you.

I tried to get this point across earlier. There are many dynamics at work in a firm environment. Many of them you may not be aware of. Firms do seemingly random things for random reasons. Maybe people like to believe that getting an offer is solely in their control so that if they don't get one, they made big errors.

But see the post above where a person got no offered for making one offhand comment and offending the wrong person. Things tend to be far more random and petty at the end of the day than SAs want to admit. Of course the people that get offers assume it is because they
are so good they deserve it and it is all in their control. But it just isn't. There is the action of luck and working with the right people, etc.

Maybe you have to work a couple of years to understand this.

Do you have any idea how vapid, douchey, and unhelpful that was?


Maybe not well- written. My point was that people get no- offered for reasons that don't entirely depend on them. People can blame themselves for decisions that are based at least in part on politics they know nothing about. Every firm has politics. It can be impossible for summers to pick up on the nuances of politics that have been going on for years.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby Stanford4Me » Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:10 am

NYstate wrote:
Maybe not well- written. My point was that people get no- offered for reasons that don't entirely depend on them. People can blame themselves for decisions that are based at least in part on politics they know nothing about. Every firm has politics. It can be impossible for summers to pick up on the nuances of politics that have been going on for years.


Personally, I appreciated the post. Thanks for the advice.

I recently talked to people I summer with who will be working there and they were telling me about their concerns because apparently a greater-than-usual number of partners and associates have moved to other firms.

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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby TheFactor » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:17 am

i apologize then. clearly i was wrong. carry on.

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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:55 am

Appreciate everyone's stories ITT. Got no-offered this afternoon and feeling pretty down. I'll share mine when I'm not so depressed/drunk. Fellow no-offereds (the forsaken ones) . . . just remember there are billions of people who have it billions of times worse than us. . . I know it doesn't help a lot but it puts things in perspective for me. . . Good luck and you're not alone.

rad lulz
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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:Appreciate everyone's stories ITT. Got no-offered this afternoon and feeling pretty down. I'll share mine when I'm not so depressed/drunk. Fellow no-offereds (the forsaken ones) . . . just remember there are billions of people who have it billions of times worse than us. . . I know it doesn't help a lot but it puts things in perspective for me. . . Good luck and you're not alone.

Condolences brother

First thing I did when hearing the news was going to the bar

No shame; hope you feel better tomorrow

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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:41 pm

Ditto to NYState. We'd like to think that everything is based on merit, but sometimes getting a no-offer or getting laid off is also partly based on randomness, luck, and not pissing off the wrong person on the wrong day.

One of my friends worked at a firm (smaller sized) and one of the name partners got pissed off at a new hire because the new hire threw away his paper coffee cup in the trash can while it was still half full. It was in the pantry area and the partner saw it and just got pissed off and found out who did it. The new hire was eventually fired because of essentially throwing away his coffee in the wrong way. The poor senior associates who had to give the new hire the bad news couldn't really say why the new hire was being fired either.

Random stupid stuff can happen. So don't ever feel like it was necessarily on you. I mean, be self-reflective and see if there's anything you could've done to improve, but sometimes, if you can't find an answer, it just might not be there.

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romothesavior
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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby romothesavior » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:47 pm

rad lulz wrote:Good luck on the bar and good luck in your interview my dude

I've know you now for like 3 years and I really hope now is your time

Ditto. Good luck bro.

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Re: Guide to Getting No Offered / No Offer Support thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:08 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Which do you guys think is worse, getting no offered after 2L summer, or getting no offered before 2L summer

After 2L summer, no question

3L job market is so bad


I was no offered after 1L summer, but went through OCI and received a handful of offers for 2L, and got an offer after 2L summer. 1L no offers are not really that serious if you can figure out what happened and mitigate that the next time around. Mine was due to bad fit, and I was more careful with my choice of fit and what I said the next summer.

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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:55 pm

I appreciate the support ITT. i got my no-offer earlier this week. it totally blindsided me. now i am a wreck and to be honest, i find myself hiding out in the bathroom at my gf's house and just crying it all out. i think i have a decent back-up plan but man, this really kills your confidence and makes you question what it is that is wrong with you.

I was led on the entire summer that I had an offer and was told at both reviews that my work product was fantastic.

I was told that everyone liked me, but i guess that wasnt true.

i had planned on getting engaged and had this vision of my life in my head where i was earning 160k and had financial freedom. i didnt dream of buying an M3 or mercedes or anything lavish, i just wanted the financial freedom. i came from a poor family and my parents were so proud that i found success. it hurt to tell everyone that it was pulled out from under me. Im crying as a write this (and i'm a pretty tough dude) so pardon any poor grammar.

i already suffer from depression and this took me ten steps back. im not suicidal or anything like that so please don't worry about that. i just find myself crawling into that very deep, dark corner of my mind where I'm alone and fatigued and just want to stay there and cry. I loved my job and the people.

i dont want a pity party, i just wanted to put my thoughts out there. not even looking for advice, just an outlet. thanks everyone.

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romothesavior
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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby romothesavior » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I appreciate the support ITT. i got my no-offer earlier this week. it totally blindsided me. now i am a wreck and to be honest, i find myself hiding out in the bathroom at my gf's house and just crying it all out. i think i have a decent back-up plan but man, this really kills your confidence and makes you question what it is that is wrong with you.

I was led on the entire summer that I had an offer and was told at both reviews that my work product was fantastic.

I was told that everyone liked me, but i guess that wasnt true.

i had planned on getting engaged and had this vision of my life in my head where i was earning 160k and had financial freedom. i didnt dream of buying an M3 or mercedes or anything lavish, i just wanted the financial freedom. i came from a poor family and my parents were so proud that i found success. it hurt to tell everyone that it was pulled out from under me. Im crying as a write this (and i'm a pretty tough dude) so pardon any poor grammar.

i already suffer from depression and this took me ten steps back. im not suicidal or anything like that so please don't worry about that. i just find myself crawling into that very deep, dark corner of my mind where I'm alone and fatigued and just want to stay there and cry. I loved my job and the people.

i dont want a pity party, i just wanted to put my thoughts out there. not even looking for advice, just an outlet. thanks everyone.

I won't sit here and tell you it'll all be okay, you'll bounce back, etc., because honestly, no one can know that for sure.

What I can tell you is that I know people who were no-offered, and many of them bounced back and found strong employment opportunities. It can be a long road, it can make your 3L year miserable, it can make you question the whole idea of going to law school in the first place (if you weren't already), but you can still walk out of law school with a job, with a carer, with the possibility of the financial freedom you're hoping for.

I also would take NYState's posts ITT to heart, and realize that if you were being told you were fantastic, and people liked you, then it's very possible it came down to financial problems, politics, luck, or a whole host of other things that aren't indicative of who you are and the type of lawyer you can be. So don't beat yourself up.

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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby FeelTheHeat » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:32 pm

NYstate wrote:I tried to get this point across earlier. There are many dynamics at work in a firm environment. Many of them you may not be aware of. Firms do seemingly random things for random reasons. Maybe people like to believe that getting an offer is solely in their control so that if they don't get one, they made big errors.

But see the post above where a person got no offered for making one offhand comment and offending the wrong person. Things tend to be far more random and petty at the end of the day than SAs want to admit. Of course the people that get offers assume it is because they are so good they deserve it and it is all in their control. But it just isn't. There is the action of luck and working with the right people, etc.


This is stupidly credited. We'd go crazy if we truly realized how little control we have over our future.

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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I appreciate the support ITT. i got my no-offer earlier this week. it totally blindsided me. now i am a wreck and to be honest, i find myself hiding out in the bathroom at my gf's house and just crying it all out. i think i have a decent back-up plan but man, this really kills your confidence and makes you question what it is that is wrong with you.

I was led on the entire summer that I had an offer and was told at both reviews that my work product was fantastic.

I was told that everyone liked me, but i guess that wasnt true.

i had planned on getting engaged and had this vision of my life in my head where i was earning 160k and had financial freedom. i didnt dream of buying an M3 or mercedes or anything lavish, i just wanted the financial freedom. i came from a poor family and my parents were so proud that i found success. it hurt to tell everyone that it was pulled out from under me. Im crying as a write this (and i'm a pretty tough dude) so pardon any poor grammar.

i already suffer from depression and this took me ten steps back. im not suicidal or anything like that so please don't worry about that. i just find myself crawling into that very deep, dark corner of my mind where I'm alone and fatigued and just want to stay there and cry. I loved my job and the people.

i dont want a pity party, i just wanted to put my thoughts out there. not even looking for advice, just an outlet. thanks everyone.

That sucks. Would you be willing to out the firm? What is their offer rate? It's shitty to lead you on and give you all positive feedback and nothing to lead you to believe there is a problem and then pull this, giving you no way to have avoided it.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:04 pm

romothesavior wrote:I also would take NYState's posts ITT to heart, and realize that if you were being told you were fantastic, and people liked you, then it's very possible it came down to financial problems, politics, luck, or a whole host of other things that aren't indicative of who you are and the type of lawyer you can be. So don't beat yourself up.

FeelTheHeat wrote:
NYstate wrote:I tried to get this point across earlier. There are many dynamics at work in a firm environment. Many of them you may not be aware of. Firms do seemingly random things for random reasons. Maybe people like to believe that getting an offer is solely in their control so that if they don't get one, they made big errors.

But see the post above where a person got no offered for making one offhand comment and offending the wrong person. Things tend to be far more random and petty at the end of the day than SAs want to admit. Of course the people that get offers assume it is because they are so good they deserve it and it is all in their control. But it just isn't. There is the action of luck and working with the right people, etc.


This is stupidly credited. We'd go crazy if we truly realized how little control we have over our future.

I've been trying to figure out how to say more about this, because I think it's so, so, so, true. But I can't come up with anything better. So yeah, the above is all really really true. I know it feels awful right now, but the no-offers are really not about you as a person or a lawyer.

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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:10 pm

I am a no-offeree from the summer of 2011 who poasted his story ITT earlier. Just chiming in to offer some hope to the most recent class of no-offerrees who have just gotten or are about to get this kick to the balls. I also think my experience kinda +1s NYState's general point that the stated reason for your no-offer may or may not be the real reason. I was told that my work product was great but it was the economics of the firm, etc. This may have been partially true (it was a mid sized firm and hasn't hired summers since) but may be partially false (their website indicates the presence of several new associates). Point is, I'll never know. But I ended up landing on my feet, finding another job with another firm I like quite a bit, and I think that being no-offered was the kick in the ass I needed to start my career humbled, hungry, and ready to work my ass off.

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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby NYstate » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I appreciate the support ITT. i got my no-offer earlier this week. it totally blindsided me. now i am a wreck and to be honest, i find myself hiding out in the bathroom at my gf's house and just crying it all out. i think i have a decent back-up plan but man, this really kills your confidence and makes you question what it is that is wrong with you.

I was led on the entire summer that I had an offer and was told at both reviews that my work product was fantastic.

I was told that everyone liked me, but i guess that wasnt true.

i had planned on getting engaged and had this vision of my life in my head where i was earning 160k and had financial freedom. i didnt dream of buying an M3 or mercedes or anything lavish, i just wanted the financial freedom. i came from a poor family and my parents were so proud that i found success. it hurt to tell everyone that it was pulled out from under me. Im crying as a write this (and i'm a pretty tough dude) so pardon any poor grammar.

i already suffer from depression and this took me ten steps back. im not suicidal or anything like that so please don't worry about that. i just find myself crawling into that very deep, dark corner of my mind where I'm alone and fatigued and just want to stay there and cry. I loved my job and the people.

i dont want a pity party, i just wanted to put my thoughts out there. not even looking for advice, just an outlet. thanks everyone.

That sucks. Would you be willing to out the firm? What is their offer rate? It's shitty to lead you on and give you all positive feedback and nothing to lead you to believe there is a problem and then pull this, giving you no way to have avoided it.


Did you read the title of this thread? Go away.
FWIW: this could apply to any firm.

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Ludo!
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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby Ludo! » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I appreciate the support ITT. i got my no-offer earlier this week. it totally blindsided me. now i am a wreck and to be honest, i find myself hiding out in the bathroom at my gf's house and just crying it all out. i think i have a decent back-up plan but man, this really kills your confidence and makes you question what it is that is wrong with you.

I was led on the entire summer that I had an offer and was told at both reviews that my work product was fantastic.

I was told that everyone liked me, but i guess that wasnt true.

i had planned on getting engaged and had this vision of my life in my head where i was earning 160k and had financial freedom. i didnt dream of buying an M3 or mercedes or anything lavish, i just wanted the financial freedom. i came from a poor family and my parents were so proud that i found success. it hurt to tell everyone that it was pulled out from under me. Im crying as a write this (and i'm a pretty tough dude) so pardon any poor grammar.

i already suffer from depression and this took me ten steps back. im not suicidal or anything like that so please don't worry about that. i just find myself crawling into that very deep, dark corner of my mind where I'm alone and fatigued and just want to stay there and cry. I loved my job and the people.

i dont want a pity party, i just wanted to put my thoughts out there. not even looking for advice, just an outlet. thanks everyone.


Know how you feel brother. It gets better over time. Even if you don't find a job, it gets better

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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I appreciate the support ITT. i got my no-offer earlier this week. it totally blindsided me. now i am a wreck and to be honest, i find myself hiding out in the bathroom at my gf's house and just crying it all out. i think i have a decent back-up plan but man, this really kills your confidence and makes you question what it is that is wrong with you.

I was led on the entire summer that I had an offer and was told at both reviews that my work product was fantastic.

I was told that everyone liked me, but i guess that wasnt true.

i had planned on getting engaged and had this vision of my life in my head where i was earning 160k and had financial freedom. i didnt dream of buying an M3 or mercedes or anything lavish, i just wanted the financial freedom. i came from a poor family and my parents were so proud that i found success. it hurt to tell everyone that it was pulled out from under me. Im crying as a write this (and i'm a pretty tough dude) so pardon any poor grammar.

i already suffer from depression and this took me ten steps back. im not suicidal or anything like that so please don't worry about that. i just find myself crawling into that very deep, dark corner of my mind where I'm alone and fatigued and just want to stay there and cry. I loved my job and the people.

i dont want a pity party, i just wanted to put my thoughts out there. not even looking for advice, just an outlet. thanks everyone.

That sucks. Would you be willing to out the firm? What is their offer rate? It's shitty to lead you on and give you all positive feedback and nothing to lead you to believe there is a problem and then pull this, giving you no way to have avoided it.

OP here

Part of the whole reason I started this thread was so people wouldn't have to deal w "out that TTT firm"

It's in the 2nd paragraph you fucking illiterate

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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:21 pm

I summered at a Big Law NYC firm and have not heard a thing yet. I believe some of the summers have heard and at least one other besides myself have not heard. Truthfully, I have been too scared to ask others and am hoping for the best. But, since the program ended about a week ago, I am getting more anxious with each passing day.
My reviews were positive and one department said they would like me to join them next year..but no news yet. No phone call, no email and no letter.
I did get only one review that was not that great, but nothing very bad. I was thinking that the firm has no obligation to hire for a permanent job. I was hired for the summer and I got paid.
I guess it would be nice of them to let me know something. But I am assuming they have no obligation.
Last year, everyone got offers (and this has typically happened in previous years as well).
I don't know what to do. Should I call, or forget about it?
ARe there any nyc big law firms out there that take their time?
Are they waiting to see if anyone whom they offered turns them down before making me an offer?
It seems as if most of the posters found out on the last day of work or earlier.
I am assuming that the more time that goes by, the more likely it is that I will get that rejection letter, or maybe never hear anything.
I am about to cry and not sure what to do.
I attend a T14.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:21 pm

dup

Anonymous User
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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I summered at a Big Law NYC firm and have not heard a thing yet. I believe some of the summers have heard and at least one other besides myself have not heard. Truthfully, I have been too scared to ask others and am hoping for the best. But, since the program ended about a week ago, I am getting more anxious with each passing day.
My reviews were positive and one department said they would like me to join them next year..but no news yet. No phone call, no email and no letter.
I did get only one review that was not that great, but nothing very bad. I was thinking that the firm has no obligation to hire for a permanent job. I was hired for the summer and I got paid.
I guess it would be nice of them to let me know something. But I am assuming they have no obligation.
Last year, everyone got offers (and this has typically happened in previous years as well).
I don't know what to do. Should I call, or forget about it?
ARe there any nyc big law firms out there that take their time?
Are they waiting to see if anyone whom they offered turns them down before making me an offer?
It seems as if most of the posters found out on the last day of work or earlier.
I am assuming that the more time that goes by, the more likely it is that I will get that rejection letter, or maybe never hear anything.
I am about to cry and not sure what to do.
I attend a T14.


It's been a week, calm down. Took my firm a month. Sounds like you got good reviews.

rad lulz
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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I summered at a Big Law NYC firm and have not heard a thing yet. I believe some of the summers have heard and at least one other besides myself have not heard. Truthfully, I have been too scared to ask others and am hoping for the best. But, since the program ended about a week ago, I am getting more anxious with each passing day.
My reviews were positive and one department said they would like me to join them next year..but no news yet. No phone call, no email and no letter.
I did get only one review that was not that great, but nothing very bad. I was thinking that the firm has no obligation to hire for a permanent job. I was hired for the summer and I got paid.
I guess it would be nice of them to let me know something. But I am assuming they have no obligation.
Last year, everyone got offers (and this has typically happened in previous years as well).
I don't know what to do. Should I call, or forget about it?
ARe there any nyc big law firms out there that take their time?
Are they waiting to see if anyone whom they offered turns them down before making me an offer?
It seems as if most of the posters found out on the last day of work or earlier.
I am assuming that the more time that goes by, the more likely it is that I will get that rejection letter, or maybe never hear anything.
I am about to cry and not sure what to do.
I attend a T14.

While I'm sympathetic, you have the wrong thread

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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:41 pm

What I have tried to say is that these firm have no obligation to make an offer, or to no offer.
The expectation is that the SA's will hear something (accept or reject).
But, are there any cases where SA's never heard a thing? Just never got an acceptance or a rejection?
That is what I am concerned about at this point and not sure what I should do, if anything.

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Re: No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What I have tried to say is that these firm have no obligation to make an offer, or to no offer.
The expectation is that the SA's will hear something (accept or reject).
But, are there any cases where SA's never heard a thing? Just never got an acceptance or a rejection?
That is what I am concerned about at this point and not sure what I should do, if anything.

Again, wrong thread. But no, SAs hear back one way or another. They are not going to ignore you. And if they do, you'd need to wait longer than a week to be worrying about it.




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