No Offer Guide and Support thread (no advice for SAs, 1Ls) Forum

[Anonymous User]

I summered at a Big Law NYC firm and have not heard a thing yet. I believe some of the summers have heard and at least one other besides myself have not heard. Truthfully, I have been too scared to ask others and am hoping for the best. But, since the program ended about a week ago, I am getting more anxious with each passing day.
My reviews were positive and one department said they would like me to join them next year..but no news yet. No phone call, no email and no letter.
I did get only one review that was not that great, but nothing very bad. I was thinking that the firm has no obligation to hire for a permanent job. I was hired for the summer and I got paid.
I guess it would be nice of them to let me know something. But I am assuming they have no obligation.
Last year, everyone got offers (and this has typically happened in previous years as well).
I don't know what to do. Should I call, or forget about it?
ARe there any nyc big law firms out there that take their time?
Are they waiting to see if anyone whom they offered turns them down before making me an offer?
It seems as if most of the posters found out on the last day of work or earlier.
I am assuming that the more time that goes by, the more likely it is that I will get that rejection letter, or maybe never hear anything.
I am about to cry and not sure what to do.
I attend a T14.

While I'm sympathetic, you have the wrong thread

Why is this the wrong thread? It's the no offer support thread and as of this moment I have nothing but hopes.
Can someone say how long some of these firms have taken to make a no offer, or a "no offer."?

[rad lulz]

What I have tried to say is that these firm have no obligation to make an offer, or to no offer.
The expectation is that the SA's will hear something (accept or reject).
But, are there any cases where SA's never heard a thing? Just never got an acceptance or a rejection?
That is what I am concerned about at this point and not sure what I should do, if anything.

Wrong thread dood

[20160810]

I would venture that *most* firms take about 2 weeks. They have to have a committee meet before they hire you, and honestly it's probably not Priority Numero Uno. Wait three weeks before you freak out, then start poasting ITT.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Why is this the wrong thread? It's the no offer support thread and as of this moment I have nothing but hopes.
Can someone say how long some of these firms have taken to make a no offer, or a "no offer."?

This thread is for people who have actually been no-offered, not people who are afraid they might be. It's a different experience. The SA thread is full of people in your position.

[Anonymous User]

Great thread and great advice throughout.

Here is a bit of my own no-offer story: after my own no-offer many moons ago, I ended up landing on my feet in a new city. Fast forward a number of years and I am working across some attorneys from a different office of the same firm. The matter concludes and the main guy I was working across calls me up and asks "how would you like to come and work for us?"

I told him I was flattered by the offer but that I was happy where I was.

[Anonymous User]

And then there is the shame and embarrassment. People know you are "supposed" to be going back to your summer firm after graduation. It feels like people are always assuming that it's your fault, that you did something wrong. There are assholes on TLS who keep parroting the myths that people only get no offered for doing terrible work or being 'aspie'. People around you will always have lingering suspicions that you did something horrible you're not telling them.

this. so much this. also it didn't help that like an idiot i went around telling all my non-law friends that an SA basically meant a job, and that the offer was mine to lose. i was dinged for work product, fucked up a difficult assignment. i didn't work smart but i worked my ass off (late nights, weekends). but when i got a law clerk job later my friends were like "work hard so you can get an offer"...

another thing that makes a no offer a truly traumatic event: you've spent more than a year getting used to the idea of being an associate at the firm and making 160k or whatever. you spent all of 2l with this "knowledge". during the summer, if it's a new city, you wondered about every neighborhood you visited whether you could live there. every associate/summer/friend's apartment made you liked made you wonder "how much and how far from work". you've evaluated optimal transportation options, had fun making budgets, etc. it's been a fact in your mind for a year that you would be moving to this new (and presumably exciting) place. to lose all that with one phone call is astonishingly cruel.

finally, even at my age, it is the first significant academic/professional failure i've experienced. utterly obliterated my self-esteem for several months.

now the one thing i can't relate to is the jealousy. sorry, not trying to say i am a saint, but i am not at all bothered by the talk of others who did well. for example, i stayed in contact with many of the other summers and i know i will see them in the near future.

[Anonymous User]

And then there is the shame and embarrassment. People know you are "supposed" to be going back to your summer firm after graduation. It feels like people are always assuming that it's your fault, that you did something wrong. There are assholes on TLS who keep parroting the myths that people only get no offered for doing terrible work or being 'aspie'. People around you will always have lingering suspicions that you did something horrible you're not telling them.

this. so much this. also it didn't help that like an idiot i went around telling all my non-law friends that an SA basically meant a job, and that the offer was mine to lose. i was dinged for work product, fucked up a difficult assignment. i didn't work smart but i worked my ass off (late nights, weekends). but when i got a law clerk job later my friends were like "work hard so you can get an offer"...

another thing that makes a no offer a truly traumatic event: you've spent more than a year getting used to the idea of being an associate at the firm and making 160k or whatever. you spent all of 2l with this "knowledge". during the summer, if it's a new city, you wondered about every neighborhood you visited whether you could live there. every associate/summer/friend's apartment made you liked made you wonder "how much and how far from work". you've evaluated optimal transportation options, had fun making budgets, etc. it's been a fact in your mind for a year that you would be moving to this new (and presumably exciting) place. to lose all that with one phone call is astonishingly cruel.

finally, even at my age, it is the first significant academic/professional failure i've experienced. utterly obliterated my self-esteem for several months.

now the one thing i can't relate to is the jealousy. sorry, not trying to say i am a saint, but i am not at all bothered by the talk of others who did well. for example, i stayed in contact with many of the other summers and i know i will see them in the near future.

THIS. Just got the call today. I was on vocation for God's sake. I was just getting used to the idea of relocating half way across the country, then boom, with a call all the planning is gone. I will have to cut my budget significantly, and this sucks. All the travel plans I have dreamed of based on this "knowledge" of 160K are gone. I am quite comfortable telling people that I got no offer, it is my Asian parents and relatives that I don't know how to handle.

Also, if I successfully convince the firm to give me a cold offer instead, does this mean I also have to "pretend" I get an offer even to classmates? Again, I don't feel uncomfortable telling people that I got no offer, but words spread and I would hate for the firm (or other firms I am interviewing at) to find out about it. Or maybe most firms interviewing 3L can already tell ...

[NYstate]

If you convince the firm to give you a cold offer, I would only tell your few most trusted friends. ( Be sure it is people who wont gossip behind your back.)There is no reason to have this spreading around school. Not that I feel you have any reason to be ashamed. You have a right to protect your privacy.

If your firm won't give you a cold offer, I would still only tell my best friends. It is no one else's concern

As for telling your family, I don't know. Maybe it is better to tell them at once and get it over with? It will never be easy so you might as well tell them upfront? My family is supportive and honestly could care less if I had a job at all, as long as I was happy and managing to support myself as best I could. ( But weve had our share of trauma so their values are not money and status focused.) But I know people with very unsupportive families. So maybe telling them would be worse? You have to make the judgement on what is best for you.

At this point, just operate solely on your own best interest. The school doesn't need to know your story. Your family needs to know when you feel like telling them.

There is no way a 3L firm can magically tell if you got a cold offer. If your summer firm gives you a good reference, they will never find out. Remember to be careful as to who you ask for references. Avoid trusting the hiring partner or members of the committee as references if you can.

Keep your head up and don't lose confidence in yourself.

[Anonymous User]

If you convince the firm to give you a cold offer, I would only tell your few most trusted friends. ( Be sure it is people who wont gossip behind your back.)There is no reason to have this spreading around school. Not that I feel you have any reason to be ashamed. You have a right to protect your privacy.

If your firm won't give you a cold offer, I would still only tell my best friends. It is no one else's concern

As for telling your family, I don't know. Maybe it is better to tell them at once and get it over with? It will never be easy so you might as well tell them upfront? My family is supportive and honestly could care less if I had a job at all, as long as I was happy and managing to support myself as best I could. ( But weve had our share of trauma so their values are not money and status focused.) But I know people with very unsupportive families. So maybe telling them would be worse? You have to make the judgement on what is best for you.

At this point, just operate solely on your own best interest. The school doesn't need to know your story. Your family needs to know when you feel like telling them.

There is no way a 3L firm can magically tell if you got a cold offer. If your summer firm gives you a good reference, they will never find out. Remember to be careful as to who you ask for references. Avoid trusting the hiring partner or members of the committee as references if you can.

Keep your head up and don't lose confidence in yourself.

Thanks, this really helps. Thanks for everyone that has been contributing on this support thread - it's one of the first thing I turned to when I got the call.

[Anonymous User]

Firm wouldn't give me a cold offer. Damn.

Just curious, no offer 3L v. no SA 3L, if assuming everything else is the same, which one is better off?

But in reality, obviously I would have worked much harder and got on moot court competition/networking/etc during my 2L year if I didn't get the SA position. Not that I am complaining, I enjoyed a relax 2L year, had good run with the firm this summer and was able to save some $. Still, ouch, it hurts when dream came down crashing like this.

[rad lulz]

Firm wouldn't give me a cold offer. Damn.

Just curious, no offer 3L v. no SA 3L, if assuming everything else is the same, which one is better off?

But in reality, obviously I would have worked much harder and got on moot court competition/networking/etc during my 2L year if I didn't get the SA position. Not that I am complaining, I enjoyed a relax 2L year, had good run with the firm this summer and was able to save some $. Still, ouch, it hurts when dream came down crashing like this.

If you want a job w a law firm I'd much rather be no offered

Firms want to see other firm experience

[20160810]

Firm wouldn't give me a cold offer. Damn.

Just curious, no offer 3L v. no SA 3L, if assuming everything else is the same, which one is better off?

But in reality, obviously I would have worked much harder and got on moot court competition/networking/etc during my 2L year if I didn't get the SA position. Not that I am complaining, I enjoyed a relax 2L year, had good run with the firm this summer and was able to save some $. Still, ouch, it hurts when dream came down crashing like this.

If you want a job w a law firm I'd much rather be no offered

Firms want to see other firm experience

This. You can also spin a no offer pretty favorably unless you were explicitly told your work product or conduct was the problem, eg by saying "I am really interested in Specialty Practice XYZ and that isn't their strongest practice" or something.

[Anonymous User]

I got no offered because some partner departures made them need fewer associates in my target practice groups. Apparently the firm only had 3 spots open in litigation despite bringing 15 people through that practice group. At least I already have a clerkship. It has to really suck for people who don't.

[Anonymous User]

And then there is the shame and embarrassment. People know you are "supposed" to be going back to your summer firm after graduation. It feels like people are always assuming that it's your fault, that you did something wrong. There are assholes on TLS who keep parroting the myths that people only get no offered for doing terrible work or being 'aspie'. People around you will always have lingering suspicions that you did something horrible you're not telling them.

this. so much this. also it didn't help that like an idiot i went around telling all my non-law friends that an SA basically meant a job, and that the offer was mine to lose. i was dinged for work product, fucked up a difficult assignment. i didn't work smart but i worked my ass off (late nights, weekends). but when i got a law clerk job later my friends were like "work hard so you can get an offer"...

another thing that makes a no offer a truly traumatic event: you've spent more than a year getting used to the idea of being an associate at the firm and making 160k or whatever. you spent all of 2l with this "knowledge". during the summer, if it's a new city, you wondered about every neighborhood you visited whether you could live there. every associate/summer/friend's apartment made you liked made you wonder "how much and how far from work". you've evaluated optimal transportation options, had fun making budgets, etc. it's been a fact in your mind for a year that you would be moving to this new (and presumably exciting) place. to lose all that with one phone call is astonishingly cruel.

finally, even at my age, it is the first significant academic/professional failure i've experienced. utterly obliterated my self-esteem for several months.

now the one thing i can't relate to is the jealousy. sorry, not trying to say i am a saint, but i am not at all bothered by the talk of others who did well. for example, i stayed in contact with many of the other summers and i know i will see them in the near future.

THIS. Just got the call today. I was on vocation for God's sake. I was just getting used to the idea of relocating half way across the country, then boom, with a call all the planning is gone. I will have to cut my budget significantly, and this sucks. All the travel plans I have dreamed of based on this "knowledge" of 160K are gone. I am quite comfortable telling people that I got no offer, it is my Asian parents and relatives that I don't know how to handle.

Also, if I successfully convince the firm to give me a cold offer instead, does this mean I also have to "pretend" I get an offer even to classmates? Again, I don't feel uncomfortable telling people that I got no offer, but words spread and I would hate for the firm (or other firms I am interviewing at) to find out about it. Or maybe most firms interviewing 3L can already tell ...

Yeah I got the 1 minute phone call while on vacation as well and it was totally out of the blue because they've offered everyone since 2009. One bad review by a junior associate regarding being an hour late on an assignment after still going to lunch with him the day it was due, the rest was all positive and the head of the department I did the most work for took my wife and I out for dinner during the last week of the summer. Makes explaining the no offer to friends and family even harder, even though I will be OK financially, I didn't apply for 3L OCI etc, so this week will be a real scramble looking up who's coming to OCI so that I can try to get some interviews...

[Anonymous User]

thanks for this thread...really helps to hear other stories. i was blind-sided by a no offer almost two weeks ago and am still telling everyone who asks that i just haven't heard back yet. it's also difficult to explain why i didn't get an offer when honestly i don't know myself. i feel like everyone must think i royally fucked up- everyone is told that the offer is theirs to lose, and you have to be psychotic to not get one.

this was my second summer at the firm and i only had one negative evaluation from a mid-level associate. was an awful assignment and my summer committee person had been aware of all the issues and even tried to get me out of the assignment. apparently, the no offer was because this summer committee person didn't recommend me. sucks and you feel betrayed when all summer long you have been told that your work product is great and have nothing to worry about.

especially after spending two summers in this "lifestyle", you start planning your future and start seeing how your life might be. a no offer is a huge blow and while not depressed, i don't want to see anyone because i don't want to discuss if i got the job or not. feels like you're starting from the bottom at the worst possible time.

[NYstate]

And then there is the shame and embarrassment. People know you are "supposed" to be going back to your summer firm after graduation. It feels like people are always assuming that it's your fault, that you did something wrong. There are assholes on TLS who keep parroting the myths that people only get no offered for doing terrible work or being 'aspie'. People around you will always have lingering suspicions that you did something horrible you're not telling them.

this. so much this. also it didn't help that like an idiot i went around telling all my non-law friends that an SA basically meant a job, and that the offer was mine to lose. i was dinged for work product, fucked up a difficult assignment. i didn't work smart but i worked my ass off (late nights, weekends). but when i got a law clerk job later my friends were like "work hard so you can get an offer"...

another thing that makes a no offer a truly traumatic event: you've spent more than a year getting used to the idea of being an associate at the firm and making 160k or whatever. you spent all of 2l with this "knowledge". during the summer, if it's a new city, you wondered about every neighborhood you visited whether you could live there. every associate/summer/friend's apartment made you liked made you wonder "how much and how far from work". you've evaluated optimal transportation options, had fun making budgets, etc. it's been a fact in your mind for a year that you would be moving to this new (and presumably exciting) place. to lose all that with one phone call is astonishingly cruel.

finally, even at my age, it is the first significant academic/professional failure i've experienced. utterly obliterated my self-esteem for several months.

now the one thing i can't relate to is the jealousy. sorry, not trying to say i am a saint, but i am not at all bothered by the talk of others who did well. for example, i stayed in contact with many of the other summers and i know i will see them in the near future.

THIS. Just got the call today. I was on vocation for God's sake. I was just getting used to the idea of relocating half way across the country, then boom, with a call all the planning is gone. I will have to cut my budget significantly, and this sucks. All the travel plans I have dreamed of based on this "knowledge" of 160K are gone. I am quite comfortable telling people that I got no offer, it is my Asian parents and relatives that I don't know how to handle.

Also, if I successfully convince the firm to give me a cold offer instead, does this mean I also have to "pretend" I get an offer even to classmates? Again, I don't feel uncomfortable telling people that I got no offer, but words spread and I would hate for the firm (or other firms I am interviewing at) to find out about it. Or maybe most firms interviewing 3L can already tell ...

Yeah I got the 1 minute phone call while on vacation as well and it was totally out of the blue because they've offered everyone since 2009. One bad review by a junior associate regarding being an hour late on an assignment after still going to lunch with him the day it was due, the rest was all positive and the head of the department I did the most work for took my wife and I out for dinner during the last week of the summer. Makes explaining the no offer to friends and family even harder, even though I will be OK financially, I didn't apply for 3L OCI etc, so this week will be a real scramble looking up who's coming to OCI so that I can try to get some interviews...

So can you talk to someone to get more information? An hour late can be a huge problem on some matters and mean nothing on others. I'm not sure what going to lunch has to do with anything.

[NYstate]

thanks for this thread...really helps to hear other stories. i was blind-sided by a no offer almost two weeks ago and am still telling everyone who asks that i just haven't heard back yet. it's also difficult to explain why i didn't get an offer when honestly i don't know myself. i feel like everyone must think i royally fucked up- everyone is told that the offer is theirs to lose, and you have to be psychotic to not get one.

this was my second summer at the firm and i only had one negative evaluation from a mid-level associate. was an awful assignment and my summer committee person had been aware of all the issues and even tried to get me out of the assignment. apparently, the no offer was because this summer committee person didn't recommend me. sucks and you feel betrayed when all summer long you have been told that your work product is great and have nothing to worry about.

especially after spending two summers in this "lifestyle", you start planning your future and start seeing how your life might be. a no offer is a huge blow and while not depressed, i don't want to see anyone because i don't want to discuss if i got the job or not. feels like you're starting from the bottom at the worst possible time.

Do what you need to do. You don't owe anyone any answers about your job situation. Just don't lose confidence and start to figure out a plan for what you will do next.

[Broseidon]

School starts in a week. I really, really don't want to talk about jobs when we go back. I may just straight up walk away from the conversation when it inevitably comes up.

[Anonymous User]

And then there is the shame and embarrassment. People know you are "supposed" to be going back to your summer firm after graduation. It feels like people are always assuming that it's your fault, that you did something wrong. There are assholes on TLS who keep parroting the myths that people only get no offered for doing terrible work or being 'aspie'. People around you will always have lingering suspicions that you did something horrible you're not telling them.

this. so much this. also it didn't help that like an idiot i went around telling all my non-law friends that an SA basically meant a job, and that the offer was mine to lose. i was dinged for work product, fucked up a difficult assignment. i didn't work smart but i worked my ass off (late nights, weekends). but when i got a law clerk job later my friends were like "work hard so you can get an offer"...

another thing that makes a no offer a truly traumatic event: you've spent more than a year getting used to the idea of being an associate at the firm and making 160k or whatever. you spent all of 2l with this "knowledge". during the summer, if it's a new city, you wondered about every neighborhood you visited whether you could live there. every associate/summer/friend's apartment made you liked made you wonder "how much and how far from work". you've evaluated optimal transportation options, had fun making budgets, etc. it's been a fact in your mind for a year that you would be moving to this new (and presumably exciting) place. to lose all that with one phone call is astonishingly cruel.

finally, even at my age, it is the first significant academic/professional failure i've experienced. utterly obliterated my self-esteem for several months.

now the one thing i can't relate to is the jealousy. sorry, not trying to say i am a saint, but i am not at all bothered by the talk of others who did well. for example, i stayed in contact with many of the other summers and i know i will see them in the near future.

THIS. Just got the call today. I was on vocation for God's sake. I was just getting used to the idea of relocating half way across the country, then boom, with a call all the planning is gone. I will have to cut my budget significantly, and this sucks. All the travel plans I have dreamed of based on this "knowledge" of 160K are gone. I am quite comfortable telling people that I got no offer, it is my Asian parents and relatives that I don't know how to handle.

Also, if I successfully convince the firm to give me a cold offer instead, does this mean I also have to "pretend" I get an offer even to classmates? Again, I don't feel uncomfortable telling people that I got no offer, but words spread and I would hate for the firm (or other firms I am interviewing at) to find out about it. Or maybe most firms interviewing 3L can already tell ...

Yeah I got the 1 minute phone call while on vacation as well and it was totally out of the blue because they've offered everyone since 2009. One bad review by a junior associate regarding being an hour late on an assignment after still going to lunch with him the day it was due, the rest was all positive and the head of the department I did the most work for took my wife and I out for dinner during the last week of the summer. Makes explaining the no offer to friends and family even harder, even though I will be OK financially, I didn't apply for 3L OCI etc, so this week will be a real scramble looking up who's coming to OCI so that I can try to get some interviews...

Firm I worked for also consistently offers everyone, but still have not heard a thing and getting worried.
Can you please share which letter group the name of your firm starts with?
A-C, or D-F, etc.
That would be very helpful in knowing if your firm is the same as mine. I also had one neg review (it was both neg and positive).

[Anonymous User]

Bros,

I just looked at the website and found out the firm that no offered me in 2011 is basically fucked (went from about 50 to 20 attorneys). Dat karma.

[rad lulz]

.

[rad lulz]

Bros,

I just looked at the website and found out the firm that no offered me in 2011 is basically fucked (went from about 50 to 20 attorneys). Dat karma.

Haha nice bro

Enjoy that feel

[rad lulz]

thanks for this thread...really helps to hear other stories. i was blind-sided by a no offer almost two weeks ago and am still telling everyone who asks that i just haven't heard back yet. it's also difficult to explain why i didn't get an offer when honestly i don't know myself. i feel like everyone must think i royally fucked up- everyone is told that the offer is theirs to lose, and you have to be psychotic to not get one.

this was my second summer at the firm and i only had one negative evaluation from a mid-level associate. was an awful assignment and my summer committee person had been aware of all the issues and even tried to get me out of the assignment. apparently, the no offer was because this summer committee person didn't recommend me. sucks and you feel betrayed when all summer long you have been told that your work product is great and have nothing to worry about.

especially after spending two summers in this "lifestyle", you start planning your future and start seeing how your life might be. a no offer is a huge blow and while not depressed, i don't want to see anyone because i don't want to discuss if i got the job or not. feels like you're starting from the bottom at the worst possible time.

Do what you need to do. You don't owe anyone any answers about your job situation. Just don't lose confidence and start to figure out a plan for what you will do next.

Tcr

[Anonymous User]

I just got no offered. How do you ask for a cold offer? Has anyone been successful in getting a cold offer?

[Stanford4Me]

I just got no offered. How do you ask for a cold offer? Has anyone been successful in getting a cold offer?

I got a cold offer. I didn't ask for one, they just gave me one because they "liked" me and felt I wasn't a "lost cause."