Fratty firms and nerdy firms

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Anonymous User
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Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:29 am

I'm currently in the process of putting together a bid list and I've seen a number of top firms described as "fratty" (/"bro"/"work hard, play hard" or "nerdy" (/intellectual/bookish). I'm sure there are some people on TLS who'd rather work at a fratty firm—others would rather work at a nerdy firm. I'm not expressing judgment either way. But all of us, regardless of preference, would probably like to know what type of firm it it before we interview. (I know it varies by practice group. But we have to make some generalizations about the culture of hundreds of people if we're going to make any decisions.)

Bottom line: which firms are a career long frat party and which are full of nerds?

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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm currently in the process of putting together a bid list and I've seen a number of top firms described as "fratty" (/"bro"/"work hard, play hard" or "nerdy" (/intellectual/bookish). I'm sure there are some people on TLS who'd rather work at a fratty firm—others would rather work at a nerdy firm. I'm not expressing judgment either way. But all of us, regardless of preference, would probably like to know what type of firm it it before we interview. (I know it varies by practice group. But we have to make some generalizations about the culture of hundreds of people if we're going to make any decisions.)

Bottom line: which firms are a career long frat party and which are full of nerds?


Bottom line: which firms are a career long frat party and which are full of nerds?[/quote]

Rarely does a firm culture stay static, unless you are talking a boutique-type firm with strong top-down control, or an enigmatic figure head (Susman, Boies, Quinn, etc.). So, I would take any advice with a grain of salt.

The best advice I can give is look at junior partners and senior associates withing your practice group when interviewing. These are the people that are going to set the culture from when you enter the firm until the time you leave the firm. I made a huge mistake when choosing summer firms in selecting a firm where I absolutely loved the upper level partners (similar interests, seemed to click, had post-interview phone calls where I felt like I was hanging with a good friend), but didn't feel I related well to the junior partners and senior associates (I thought to myself, "I wouldn't ever hang out with these people"). Once an SA I realized that while I continued to have brotastic moments with some of the senior partners, some of the people in direct supervision weren't the same as me and it was super hard to relate to them. This made work was less enjoyable.

Another anecdote. I have a friend at a known screamer firm. She feels like she is working in the coolest, most laid back and happy environment. I thought this was weird because they are the firm known for throwing office supplies at junior associates. This may be true, but her practice group has a culture exclusive from the firm because they all came in together during a buy out or something like that.

Bottom line: Look at who manages you and works with you, determine if you fit with them.

09042014
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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:16 am

MoFo associates DOMINATE the bay area bar scene.

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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:21 pm

I'll bite. Just from the word on the street:

Fratty: Skadden, Weil, Latham, Willkie, Kirkland.

Nerdy: Debevoise prides themselves on this, and I'd also say Boies, W&C, GDC.

Probably nothing shocking in there, but I would say that a lot of places are more of a middle ground. I'm sure you can find some hard-living party animals at almost any firm, especially in the summer program.

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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:31 pm

fratty: Morgan Lewis

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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:43 pm

GDC is far from nerdy, unless you're talking about the DC office.

The whole firm places a very high premium on sociability regardless.

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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby desertlaw » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:GDC is far from nerdy, unless you're talking about the DC office.

The whole firm places a very high premium on sociability regardless.


I would agree with this about GDC. From my experience:

Fratty/Social: Latham, Skadden, Weil.

Nerdy/Introverted: DPW, Debevoise. Maybe O'MM but that depends on the office probably.

It will also depend on the location self-selection. The Gibson LA people might be more social than Skadden D.C. Best to follow the advice of whatever feels right. You might think yourself a fratty bro, but DPW might just be the place for you to follow your dreams.

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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:09 pm

desertlaw wrote: Nerdy/Introverted: DPW


As someone at DPW, I can attest to this. There is a serious lack of bromanship going on at the firm.

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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:30 pm

Desert Fox wrote:MoFo associates DOMINATE the bay area bar scene.

STYLIN on dem Shearman bros

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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby jeeptiger09 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm currently in the process of putting together a bid list and I've seen a number of top firms described as "fratty" (/"bro"/"work hard, play hard" or "nerdy" (/intellectual/bookish). I'm sure there are some people on TLS who'd rather work at a fratty firm—others would rather work at a nerdy firm. I'm not expressing judgment either way. But all of us, regardless of preference, would probably like to know what type of firm it it before we interview. (I know it varies by practice group. But we have to make some generalizations about the culture of hundreds of people if we're going to make any decisions.)

Bottom line: which firms are a career long frat party and which are full of nerds?


Bottom line: you are a try hard.

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20160810
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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby 20160810 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:43 pm

OP seems like the kind of dude who joined a bottom-tier frat in college and talked about being in a frat all the time like it made him cool.

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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:45 pm

SBL wrote:OP seems like the kind of dude who joined a bottom-tier frat in college and talked about being in a frat all the time like it made him cool.


"bottom-tier frat"

they're all the same stupid shit, the "lower-tiered" ones just probably had less rape than the others

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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:47 pm

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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IAFG
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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby IAFG » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:49 pm

i am not really sure how this is going to play into a bidlist.

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20160810
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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby 20160810 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
SBL wrote:OP seems like the kind of dude who joined a bottom-tier frat in college and talked about being in a frat all the time like it made him cool.


"bottom-tier frat"

they're all the same stupid shit, the "lower-tiered" ones just probably had less rape than the others

You sound like a Phi Delt
Last edited by 20160810 on Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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IAFG
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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby IAFG » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:52 pm

SBL wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
SBL wrote:OP seems like the kind of dude who joined a bottom-tier frat in college and talked about being in a frat all the time like it made him cool.


"bottom-tier frat"

they're all the same stupid shit, the "lower-tiered" ones just probably had less rape than the others

QF wouldn't have gotten a bid

NAGL, SBL.

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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby nsideirish » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
SBL wrote:OP seems like the kind of dude who joined a bottom-tier frat in college and talked about being in a frat all the time like it made him cool.


"bottom-tier frat"

they're all the same stupid shit, the "lower-tiered" ones just probably had less rape than the others


lol no

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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:08 pm

OP here. I think we've drifted a bit off-topic and hope we can bring it back to a discussion of firm culture.

That said, I'm personally looking for a nerdy firm, so I'm somewhat amused by the assumptions that got made. Nevertheless, the whole point of evaluating fit is that one personality isn't any better -- some people are looking for a brotastic career, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'd just prefer to be surrounded by nerds.

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20160810
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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby 20160810 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. I think we've drifted a bit off-topic and hope we can bring it back to a discussion of firm culture.

That said, I'm personally looking for a nerdy firm, so I'm somewhat amused by the assumptions that got made. Nevertheless, the whole point of evaluating fit is that one personality isn't any better -- some people are looking for a brotastic career, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'd just prefer to be surrounded by nerds.

You're creating a false dichotomy here bro.

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IAFG
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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby IAFG » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:19 pm

IAFG wrote:i am not really sure how this is going to play into a bidlist.

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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:21 pm

This will depend on what market you are looking at as well. As others have noted, Gibson is far from nerdy in the LA office, whereas the DC office feels quite different. I only know "word on the street" in the LA market, but defining "fratty" broadly (i.e. social and outgoing, not necessarily hit the bar every HH):

Fratty: Latham (duh), Quinn, Gibson
Nerdy: Irell, MTO
Scary: Skadden, Kirkland (adding this since you're asking about firm culture - heard a few horror stories)

Irell and Quinn are also notorious LA sweatshops, FWIW. I would also add that I think it would be hard to glean from interviewing what a practice group's culture is like (especially at a bigger firm), unless you are really targeting that group and the firm is actively introducing you to people from that group via personally reaching out to you or putting you with those people in interviews/lunch.

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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby desertlaw » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. I think we've drifted a bit off-topic and hope we can bring it back to a discussion of firm culture.

That said, I'm personally looking for a nerdy firm, so I'm somewhat amused by the assumptions that got made. Nevertheless, the whole point of evaluating fit is that one personality isn't any better -- some people are looking for a brotastic career, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'd just prefer to be surrounded by nerds.


Just go enjoy S&C or DPW or Debevoise man.

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.

Postby Myself » Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:04 am

.
Last edited by Myself on Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby stillwater » Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:05 am

SBL wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
SBL wrote:OP seems like the kind of dude who joined a bottom-tier frat in college and talked about being in a frat all the time like it made him cool.


"bottom-tier frat"

they're all the same stupid shit, the "lower-tiered" ones just probably had less rape than the others

You sound like a Phi Delt


hahahaha

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lhanvt13
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Re: Fratty firms and nerdy firms

Postby lhanvt13 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:08 am

Hey guys, 0L with a dumb question. I hear a lot of people say that, during interviews, they're trying to see who would best fit in with the firm and/or who they would like to work with. Would it be dumb to try and tailor it to their liking if you know the general atmosphere of the firm? Say for Debevoise (since you guys seem to agree that they have a strong tendency towards a "nerdy" firm who prides themselves as one) wouldn't it make sense to try to be what they're looking for?




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