High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

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Mroberts3
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby Mroberts3 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:07 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Say you bid on the secondary first if anyone asks. They probably won't. Not all school have an auto LR polichy.


You have a lot of power given your grades. The school does not want you to transfer. The school does not give a sh$^ who is on LR. For the purposes of OCI every interview you will be asked about this. I don't see what plausible lie you you can tell. The truth makes you seem lazy. Saying you opted not to participate in LR makes you seem lazy. Saying you bid on the secondary journal is implausible, and makes you seem lazy and like an idiot if believed. I think you can strong-arm the school into putting you on LR. If you apply to transfer to the T14 your grades will matter and LR will not, you will get in somewhere good, you can do OCI without this whole issue coming up because if you are not on LR there it's not a red flag and you still have a very good chance at big law. The worst option is to do nothing. The best option is to prepare applications in the next few days, email a dean at your school tomorrow morning, and prepare to either join law review or move to a better law school.


Most schools don't control journal membership, and blackmailing your way on LR probably won't work. The school can replace you like **that** with a transfer.

I've done maybe 120 or more interviews at big law firms, maybe 5 ever asked about journal. Other than law review nerds ( I don't mean people who did LR, I mean people who thought Law Review was better than sex) I don't think people really care that much. Its a signal for good grades, but this guy is already top 1%.

Those I know who didn't do journal, did quite well at OCI. But they all had something else going on, like moot court or trial team.

Law Review is secretarial work. Everyone knows it.


I get your point, but the thing is that not having LR as top 1% would stand out, even if they don't know that the school does grade on. It's not an issue for most people because having LR and top 10% isn't interesting, so they don't mention it.

OP: My advice would be to look back at your write-on with a very critical mindset. Do you think you can see their point of view that there was no effort involved? If so, I wouldn't bother with fighting over it -- just transfer. You will do yourself a service because you will have a better school on your resume and most likely you won't have to do law review (that's a good thing -- it sucks balls). But this way you have a reason because lots of transfers don't do LR.

On the other hand, if your submission really reads like a good faith effort AND you really want to stay at the school, I would bring it up with the dean. Don't make this an argument, however. I would frame it the way we have here. E.g. "Dean X, I would love to stay here and don't mind working on Secondary Journal. However, I feel that this will be a huge problem with employers, and I can't justify sabotaging my career by staying without being on LR." (Note: I don't think your career would be sabotaged, but the anxiety over jobs is normal so this will come off sincerely).

By the way, I am not implying that you didn't give it an honest effort. I just mean that the better your submission objectively is, the more likely you will get somewhere with the dean. I would really recommend transferring if you don't mind leaving your current location. Normally transfer decisions are win win because you trade grades for a school. But that usually includes grades + LR at old school. Here, you gain more by transferring. Plus, top 1% will get you higher than top 10% could.

Good luck!

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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:24 pm

OP here.

Thanks again for your advice. I'm still trying to get this figured out with the dean, but I have learned that the issue was related to my editing/bluebook portion. I don't know if this is any better for employers because my writing wasn't the issue, but unfortunately it's harder to appeal because I don't have a copy of this portion (it was handwritten). Career services has tried to convince me that some people choose the secondary journal and it won't kill my chances, but I'm just hoping I can get this sorted out soon.

Anonymous User
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:45 pm

The valedictorian of my class joined a secondary (to avoid the extra work on LR--no idea if he was honest about that in interviews) and has a COA clerkship and a V5 job lined up.

You're fine.

lolwat
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby lolwat » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:52 am

Here's my issue with all of the "he's fine" posts--I agree, the chances of him getting a good firm is very high. Depending on his school, the chances of him getting a clerkship can be anywhere from okay to fine.

But that doesn't mean he shouldn't do everything he can to appeal and get on LR, or to look into transferring to a better school. It's very difficult to think about the opportunities that all of these people that ended up fine might have lost along the way. All we know is that they ended up fine. And that's true, the OP is likely to end up fine as well.

But, for example, maybe in the process of ending up fine at a V**, a couple of notoriously selective firms that might have been at the top of his list of firms he wanted to work at (e.g., W&C, Susman, Wachtell, etc.) passed on his resume. It'd be impossible to ever know if lack of LR could have factored into that, but it could when these places get billions of equally qualified people with a primary LR instead of a secondary journal.

That sort of thing likely matters more for some judges in terms of clerkship hiring, but still.

NYstate
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby NYstate » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:01 am

OP: could there be any personal animosity at work here?

Does the journal question the good faith effort of top people all the time?

Dinging you for the blue book exercise seems excessive if they felt the writing was fine. Do they not like you? Is the school so competitive they want to hurt the chances of other top students? Something is wrong here.

Next time: photocopy anything before it leaves your hands. Record keeping is important in everything. You should have your own copy to show the Dean.

dolia
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby dolia » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:27 am

A friend of mine was in the Top 5% (T20 school) and chose not to do law review because she didn't feel like doing the work. She did no journal at all actually. She was only asked about it on a couple of interviews, but told them she wanted to spend that time on outside internships. She got offers everywhere she applied, and she was very selective in where she bid.

If you stay on the secondary journal, just come up with a reason you chose it over LR.

Anonymous User
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:22 pm

<--- top 2%, secondary journal. like you, sorta tried to get in and didn't. my school doesn't have 100% grade-on, though.

Law firms don't give a FUCK about law review.

Clerkships might care a little bit.


edit: I crushed OCI hard. to make up for clerkships, I've gotten published a couple times.

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20160810
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby 20160810 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:38 pm

This will matter for clerking but not at all for firms. Just say you wanted to focus on moot court or that you thought your secondary journal was more interesting. Journal work is about 90% a flame.

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cinephile
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby cinephile » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:48 pm

Three years ago, rumor has it, a 1L who was in the top 1% was in a position very much like yours. He actually initiated a law suit against the suit (why I'm not sure and on what grounds I'm not sure either). But ultimately, he transfered to Harvard. So I'm not sure whether the school would have given in and given him a spot on law review. Maybe. But transferring also sounds like a good option for you.

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nevdash
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby nevdash » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:51 pm

cinephile wrote:Three years ago, rumor has it, a 1L who was in the top 1% was in a position very much like yours. He actually initiated a law suit against the suit (why I'm not sure and on what grounds I'm not sure either). But ultimately, he transfered to Harvard. So I'm not sure whether the school would have given in and given him a spot on law review. Maybe. But transferring also sounds like a good option for you.

LOL if I remember your school correctly from seeing you in other threads, I know exactly who this is, and the rumor makes absolute sense given the guy's personality.




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