High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

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Anonymous User
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High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:40 pm

My GPA puts me in the top 1% of my class at a school where the top 10% is guaranteed LR. I somehow managed to screw up write-on and got placed on my 2nd choice journal because the staff at LR felt I didn't make a "good faith effort" (which I would dispute).

Will this be a red flag on my resume? I'm not sure how to explain this to employers, especially considering my second choice journal wasn't specialized, so there's not a good reason I would have ranked it higher.

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stillwater
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby stillwater » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:My GPA puts me in the top 1% of my class at a school where the top 10% is guaranteed LR. I somehow managed to screw up write-on and got placed on my 2nd choice journal because the staff at LR felt I didn't make a "good faith effort" (which I would dispute).

Will this be a red flag on my resume? I'm not sure how to explain this to employers, especially considering my second choice journal wasn't specialized, so there's not a good reason I would have ranked it higher.


i dunno how you can spin this and not look like a donkey. maybe just tell em the truth and hope they sympathize? hope that LR is an obsolete dinosaur? its gonna look odd b/c employers will know your school grades on the top 10%.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:My GPA puts me in the top 1% of my class at a school where the top 10% is guaranteed LR. I somehow managed to screw up write-on and got placed on my 2nd choice journal because the staff at LR felt I didn't make a "good faith effort" (which I would dispute).

Will this be a red flag on my resume? I'm not sure how to explain this to employers, especially considering my second choice journal wasn't specialized, so there's not a good reason I would have ranked it higher.


If I were you I'd be meeting with deans at your current school, applying to transfer, and negotiating. I don't have any info (rising 2L) but I do think it would raise a red flag.

1. Tell the school without LR acceptance you are transferring
2. Apply to transfer

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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:54 pm

I had a friend in the top 1% have this very thing happen, and he appealed, and was allowed onto LR somehow. Funny part is, he then transferred to spite them anyway. Myself, I was at top 10% mark, and our LR was based 1/2 on grades and 1/2 on writing, which I put a ton of effort into, and didn't get onto LR. So I spited the school as well and transferred.

I would be threatening your school bigtime. Go to the dean's office, let them know of your intention to transfer, and make the reason clear. Also, see if you can appeal the decision by the LR board.

09042014
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:54 pm

Say you bid on the secondary first if anyone asks. They probably won't. Not all school have an auto LR polichy.

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BVest
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby BVest » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:06 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Say you bid on the secondary first if anyone asks. They probably won't. Not all school have an auto LR polichy.


My thoughts exactly:

"I've often thought of entering the priesthood."
https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/16 ... shack1.jpg

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IAFG
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby IAFG » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:11 pm

Is the 2ndary the T20 Journal of Large Firm Law or something spinnable

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nevdash
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby nevdash » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:14 pm

Tell employers that you graded off of Law Review. Normally the top 10% automatically gets LR, but the top 1% doesn't have to do it.

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Mad Hatter
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby Mad Hatter » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:18 pm

nevdash wrote:Tell employers that you graded off of Law Review. Normally the top 10% automatically gets LR, but the top 1% doesn't have to do it.

:lol: 180 :lol:

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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:28 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Say you bid on the secondary first if anyone asks. They probably won't. Not all school have an auto LR polichy.


You have a lot of power given your grades. The school does not want you to transfer. The school does not give a sh$^ who is on LR. For the purposes of OCI every interview you will be asked about this. I don't see what plausible lie you you can tell. The truth makes you seem lazy. Saying you opted not to participate in LR makes you seem lazy. Saying you bid on the secondary journal is implausible, and makes you seem lazy and like an idiot if believed. I think you can strong-arm the school into putting you on LR. If you apply to transfer to the T14 your grades will matter and LR will not, you will get in somewhere good, you can do OCI without this whole issue coming up because if you are not on LR there it's not a red flag and you still have a very good chance at big law. The worst option is to do nothing. The best option is to prepare applications in the next few days, email a dean at your school tomorrow morning, and prepare to either join law review or move to a better law school.

nonprofit-prophet
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:31 pm

Is your LR a part of your school? At UT, we're a completely separate entity with our own separate money. If your LR is like that, I doubt the dean can help you.

Anonymous User
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:34 pm

OP here.

I did email a dean and I'm waiting to hear back, but I've been stressing myself out in anticipation. If I get an unfavorable response, then I'll probably take all of your advice and threaten to transfer, but I can't imagine I have that strong a hand with transfer applications due in 5 days. I also really like my current school and don't want to transfer, so I'd really rather it not come to that.

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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:50 pm

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Say you bid on the secondary first if anyone asks. They probably won't. Not all school have an auto LR polichy.


You have a lot of power given your grades. The school does not want you to transfer. The school does not give a sh$^ who is on LR. For the purposes of OCI every interview you will be asked about this. I don't see what plausible lie you you can tell. The truth makes you seem lazy. Saying you opted not to participate in LR makes you seem lazy. Saying you bid on the secondary journal is implausible, and makes you seem lazy and like an idiot if believed. I think you can strong-arm the school into putting you on LR. If you apply to transfer to the T14 your grades will matter and LR will not, you will get in somewhere good, you can do OCI without this whole issue coming up because if you are not on LR there it's not a red flag and you still have a very good chance at big law. The worst option is to do nothing. The best option is to prepare applications in the next few days, email a dean at your school tomorrow morning, and prepare to either join law review or move to a better law school.


Most schools don't control journal membership, and blackmailing your way on LR probably won't work. The school can replace you like **that** with a transfer.

I've done maybe 120 or more interviews at big law firms, maybe 5 ever asked about journal. Other than law review nerds ( I don't mean people who did LR, I mean people who thought Law Review was better than sex) I don't think people really care that much. Its a signal for good grades, but this guy is already top 1%.

Those I know who didn't do journal, did quite well at OCI. But they all had something else going on, like moot court or trial team.

Law Review is secretarial work. Everyone knows it.

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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby Sup Kid » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:18 am

Desert Fox wrote:I've done maybe 120 or more interviews at big law firms, maybe 5 ever asked about journal. Other than law review nerds ( I don't mean people who did LR, I mean people who thought Law Review was better than sex) I don't think people really care that much. Its a signal for good grades, but this guy is already top 1%.

Those I know who didn't do journal, did quite well at OCI. But they all had something else going on, like moot court or trial team.

Law Review is secretarial work. Everyone knows it.

100% dead-on - I was on law review and talked about it maybe 1/4 of my interviews during OCI. Never got the feeling that the interviewers really cared (especially since at OCI you haven't done anything yet for it, other than getting on, so there's not much to say). If nothing else, just say you want to do corporate -- I guarantee you nobody in any corporate practice at a biglaw firm cares about law review/other journals/anything else you did in LS. Getting in the door to a corporate practice = grades (90%) + interest to do that kind of work (10%). Probably goes for litigation too, but I can't speak to that.

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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby Geist13 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:48 am

I really don't think its the end of the world. You're not the first person with top grades and no LR. I mean you're going to get interviews with your grades. Interviewers aren't going to be like "man great grades, I really liked talking to him, but damn, he's not on LR, he must be unemployable." Yeah maybe some people will scratch their heads, they might ask about it, but its not going to preclude you from getting a job. Don't transfer; that's truly terrible advice.

And the dean can't do anything about it, unless your LR works differently than every other LR out there.

Pokemon
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby Pokemon » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:06 am

Does this not depend on the school?
At NU, it would probably not matter much if you had top grades, but other schools might be different. I would ask 3Ls with top grades and figure from them if they were asked about it.
It also I bet depends on the market you aim. If it is a firm familiar with your school that every year takes LR kids + high grades, they might be like WTF. But if it is a firm that does not often hire from your school, they will have no idea about your "blunder."

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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby NYstate » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:34 am

Sup Kid wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I've done maybe 120 or more interviews at big law firms, maybe 5 ever asked about journal. Other than law review nerds ( I don't mean people who did LR, I mean people who thought Law Review was better than sex) I don't think people really care that much. Its a signal for good grades, but this guy is already top 1%.

Those I know who didn't do journal, did quite well at OCI. But they all had something else going on, like moot court or trial team.

Law Review is secretarial work. Everyone knows it.

100% dead-on - I was on law review and talked about it maybe 1/4 of my interviews during OCI. Never got the feeling that the interviewers really cared (especially since at OCI you haven't done anything yet for it, other than getting on, so there's not much to say). If nothing else, just say you want to do corporate -- I guarantee you nobody in any corporate practice at a biglaw firm cares about law review/other journals/anything else you did in LS. Getting in the door to a corporate practice = grades (90%) + interest to do that kind of
work (10%). Probably goes for litigation too, but I can't speak to that.


Just because people don't ask about law review doesn't mean it isn't important. Interviewers can read your resume and know you were on law review. Why would they ask you about a boring topic instead of trying to get to know you.

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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:24 am

Anonymous User wrote:My GPA puts me in the top 1% of my class at a school where the top 10% is guaranteed LR. I somehow managed to screw up write-on and got placed on my 2nd choice journal because the staff at LR felt I didn't make a "good faith effort" (which I would dispute).

Will this be a red flag on my resume? I'm not sure how to explain this to employers, especially considering my second choice journal wasn't specialized, so there's not a good reason I would have ranked it higher.


This exact thing happened to me and I am now an associate in litigation at a top firm. With that said, I had a ton of screeners at a T30 school bc of my grades and only ended up getting 2 offers. I was asked about it in at least half of interviews, make sure you prepare a good answer for why you didn't make it.

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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:50 am

I graduated this year top 3% and no LR or secondary journal at a T-25 school. I'll be starting at a V-5 this fall. I was never asked about the fact that I did not do a journal, not once in two years of OCI and callbacks. You will be fine with your GPA, unless you want a clerkship. It also might make a difference if you are interviewing with top litigation shops.

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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby lolwat » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:37 am

Given the description in the OP I think I might have an idea what school it is . . . and if it is that school, the LR/journals are student-run but the faculty/deans/law school has been able to pressure them to do things that they otherwise didn't want to.

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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:45 pm

I'm confused about your situation. I go to a school with a similar LR selection process, where the Top X% is guaranteed a spot on LR, as long as they turn in various forms. Your school apparently guarantees LR membership if you're in the Top 10%, which you are clearly in. Is there a requirement that you had to make a good faith effort for the write-on portion? At my school, I don't even think you have to participate in the write-on competition to be considered. I'm not sure what you could do, but speak with your dean. From your description, it seems like your LR is breaking its own selection rules. Maybe you could petition your school's student judiciary or appeals council if it has one.

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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby lolwat » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm confused about your situation. I go to a school with a similar LR selection process, where the Top X% is guaranteed a spot on LR, as long as they turn in various forms. Your school apparently guarantees LR membership if you're in the Top 10%, which you are clearly in. Is there a requirement that you had to make a good faith effort for the write-on portion? At my school, I don't even think you have to participate in the write-on competition to be considered. I'm not sure what you could do, but speak with your dean. From your description, it seems like your LR is breaking its own selection rules. Maybe you could petition your school's student judiciary or appeals council if it has one.


At my school (which I am guessing the OP is in just by the description of the % cut-off + good faith effort), you can grade onto the LR/journal of your choice as long as you still make a "good faith effort" on the write-on competition. In other words, yes, it is an actual requirement.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:03 pm

At my school there is no "good faith" requirement. You could turn in the Bluebook portion of write on with a swastika drawn on a blank page and if you're top 10% you're on LR.

NotMyRealName09
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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:14 pm

I'd red flag it if I were interviewing you. What 1%'er isn't on law review? I hear your explanation, and it seems unfortunate, but for me - a legal practioner - yes, I'd wonder.

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Re: High Rank/No LR = Red flag?

Postby BVest » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:45 pm

lolwat wrote:At my school (which I am guessing the OP is in just by the description of the % cut-off + good faith effort), you can grade onto the LR/journal of your choice as long as you still make a "good faith effort" on the write-on competition. In other words, yes, it is an actual requirement.



This. In fact ours is three part (writing, editing, citing) and you have to put forward a GFE on all three parts... the other two parts won't save you if you completely bomb the third part.

As part of the write-on, we can request a particular journal we prefer (even secondary journals over LR), so if it's a cool journal in an area you want to practice in, you can try to spin it that way.
Last edited by BVest on Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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