Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?

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Anonymous User
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Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:50 pm

Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?
I'm not quite sure when the offer letters from your summer firm come out, but OCI bidding for my school ends in July. This will definitely be before the offer letters come from my summer firm.
I do expect to receive an offer (90% sure). However (10% uncertainty), is the correct strategy to bid for 3L OCI and then decline all interviews when the offer letter arrives?

09042014
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Re: Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?
I'm not quite sure when the offer letters from your summer firm come out, but OCI bidding for my school ends in July. This will definitely be before the offer letters come from my summer firm.
I do expect to receive an offer (90% sure). However (10% uncertainty), is the correct strategy to bid for 3L OCI and then decline all interviews when the offer letter arrives?


I'd bid. Doesn't cost anything.

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Re: Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:46 pm

At Columbia, they let 3Ls bid, then drop all their interviews immediately before EIP if they receive an offer.

The "orthodox" strategy is to bid for 3L OCI on the off chance you don't get an offer, but to be perfectly honest, I didn't bother. My firm basically said if you were in danger of a no offer they would bring it up during mid-summer reviews.

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Re: Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:00 pm

I would absolutely bid. I have a friend from CLS who did not bid on anything because he expected a permanent offer from his SA firm. Unfortunately he did not find out about his no-offer until after the bidding date.

On the other hand, a no-offered SA is unlikely to get anything off of 3L OCI anyways, so it may not have made a difference.

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Re: Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?

Postby NanaP » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:04 pm

What is the policy on OCI? Can 1L's bid on SA positions? If not, what are 1L's supposed to do, get an SA position anywhere they can?

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Re: Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:06 pm

Semi-related questions. When a firm like Latham lists all its offices how do we know which ones will actually be hiring 3Ls? Also, at this stage are firms just looking for extra bodies or are they looking for specific practices?

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Re: Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Semi-related questions. When a firm like Latham lists all its offices how do we know which ones will actually be hiring 3Ls? Also, at this stage are firms just looking for extra bodies or are they looking for specific practices?


Usually the offices that are hiring post on the OCI site. Otherwise, email hr of the office you are interested. Be sure to include your resume because this may be the last contact you have with them.

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Re: Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Semi-related questions. When a firm like Latham lists all its offices how do we know which ones will actually be hiring 3Ls? Also, at this stage are firms just looking for extra bodies or are they looking for specific practices?


Usually the offices that are hiring post on the OCI site. Otherwise, email hr of the office you are interested. Be sure to include your resume because this may be the last contact you have with them.


I'd figure that but, for example, right now Cooley/Latham list all their offices. I also emailed a recruiting contact and he/she said they hadn't made a decision on whether they would hire 3Ls. So does this change before OCI? Just a bit confused here.

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Re: Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Semi-related questions. When a firm like Latham lists all its offices how do we know which ones will actually be hiring 3Ls? Also, at this stage are firms just looking for extra bodies or are they looking for specific practices?


Usually the offices that are hiring post on the OCI site. Otherwise, email hr of the office you are interested. Be sure to include your resume because this may be the last contact you have with them.


I'd figure that but, for example, right now Cooley/Latham list all their offices. I also emailed a recruiting contact and he/she said they hadn't made a decision on whether they would hire 3Ls. So does this change before OCI? Just a bit confused here.


In that case I would just submit a resume to any office you are interested in. Some firms do not recruit at 3L OCI but still will hire a couple off of networking/mass mailers. I got an offer from both sources my 3L year, but nothing from OCI. You will not make anyone angry by applying for a job if they are not hiring.

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Re: Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?

Postby franklyscarlet » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:23 pm

NanaP wrote:What is the policy on OCI? Can 1L's bid on SA positions? If not, what are 1L's supposed to do, get an SA position anywhere they can?


1Ls as in students who haven't started law school yet? No. You can't even contact firms until december 1.

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Re: Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?

Postby NanaP » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:29 pm

franklyscarlet wrote:
NanaP wrote:What is the policy on OCI? Can 1L's bid on SA positions? If not, what are 1L's supposed to do, get an SA position anywhere they can?


1Ls as in students who haven't started law school yet? No. You can't even contact firms until december 1.



Ha, I just realized how stupid my question was. I forgot the recruiting happens during the summers.

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Re: Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?

Postby andythefir » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:20 am

On the topic of 3L OCI there are usually 2 pieces of advice on this site. (1) 3L OCI is not for people who got no-offered because (2) it's only for people who are trading up to better firms. My question is what happens when you're moving up from a firm that has an awful offer rate? Lots of secondary/tertiary markets have nowhere near 100% offer rates (I interviewed at one that was going to take 10 summers and make 0 or maybe 1 full time offers), so getting no-offered from that firm is a very different proposition from getting no-offered at a traditional biglaw office. Has anybody seen a midlaw>biglaw through 3L OCI?

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Re: Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?

Postby JamMasterJ » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:48 am

NanaP wrote:
franklyscarlet wrote:
NanaP wrote:What is the policy on OCI? Can 1L's bid on SA positions? If not, what are 1L's supposed to do, get an SA position anywhere they can?


1Ls as in students who haven't started law school yet? No. You can't even contact firms until december 1.



Ha, I just realized how stupid my question was. I forgot the recruiting happens during the summers.

You also can't post in the legal employment forum

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Re: Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:13 am

andythefir wrote:On the topic of 3L OCI there are usually 2 pieces of advice on this site. (1) 3L OCI is not for people who got no-offered because (2) it's only for people who are trading up to better firms. My question is what happens when you're moving up from a firm that has an awful offer rate? Lots of secondary/tertiary markets have nowhere near 100% offer rates (I interviewed at one that was going to take 10 summers and make 0 or maybe 1 full time offers), so getting no-offered from that firm is a very different proposition from getting no-offered at a traditional biglaw office. Has anybody seen a midlaw>biglaw through 3L OCI?


Won't a big market BigLaw office will see a no-offer as a no-offer? I don't think they're going to buy that you just hit the unlucky draw. At that stage you're just in that morass of 2L people without big firm offers. They have enough people willing to trade up so they're not going to want to buy why you didn't get an offer, even if it is totally legitimate.

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Re: Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?

Postby andythefir » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:00 pm

So a more nuanced answer is less that 3L OCI precludes no-offered folks, and more that is is only for people who have offers from more or less big firms.

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Re: Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:20 pm

andythefir wrote:So a more nuanced answer is less that 3L OCI precludes no-offered folks, and more that is is only for people who have offers from more or less big firms.

Are you saying, what happens if I don't get an offer from my terrible-offer-rate midlaw firm and go to OCI looking for a job?, or are you saying, what happens if I get an offer from my terrible-offer-rate midlaw firm and go to OCI wanting to trade up?

If it's the former, you're like all the other no-offered folk, regardless of what firm no-offered them. You seem to be suggesting that there should be a distinction between getting no-offered at a midlaw (i.e. the firm makes very few offers), and getting no-offered at a biglaw (presumably because they all have such high offer rates the no-offer must say something about ability). But I don't think you can assume the latter, and I doubt firms at 3L OCI will care.

If it's the latter, you want to trade up - why does it matter what the offer rate for the firm was, if you got one? No one has suggested that if you have an offer from the midlaw firm you have no shot at trading up - people have been assuming you're talking about being no-offered.

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Re: Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?

Postby Summerz » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:26 pm

So I get this straight. If you attend OCI as a 3L, you are applying for an SA spot where the firm then subsidizes your bar expenses because the firm is essentially bringing you aboard as one of their new attorneys.

At the OCI interview you will explain that you (i.) have been offered elsewhere but you want to work at this firm because (they pay more, closer to home, or whatever works); (ii) you have no offer in hand (didn’t get a SA spot, were no-offered, etc.) but they should hire you anyway because la-de-da.

In a nutshell, is that it?

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Re: Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:40 pm

Summerz wrote:So I get this straight. If you attend OCI as a 3L, you are applying for an SA spot where the firm then subsidizes your bar expenses because the firm is essentially bringing you aboard as one of their new attorneys.

At the OCI interview you will explain that you (i.) have been offered elsewhere but you want to work at this firm because (they pay more, closer to home, or whatever works); (ii) you have no offer in hand (didn’t get a SA spot, were no-offered, etc.) but they should hire you anyway because la-de-da.

In a nutshell, is that it?


Bar expenses are a drop in the bucket.

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Re: Are 3L's supposed to bid at OCI?

Postby andythefir » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:22 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
andythefir wrote:So a more nuanced answer is less that 3L OCI precludes no-offered folks, and more that is is only for people who have offers from more or less big firms.

Are you saying, what happens if I don't get an offer from my terrible-offer-rate midlaw firm and go to OCI looking for a job?, or are you saying, what happens if I get an offer from my terrible-offer-rate midlaw firm and go to OCI wanting to trade up?

If it's the former, you're like all the other no-offered folk, regardless of what firm no-offered them. You seem to be suggesting that there should be a distinction between getting no-offered at a midlaw (i.e. the firm makes very few offers), and getting no-offered at a biglaw (presumably because they all have such high offer rates the no-offer must say something about ability). But I don't think you can assume the latter, and I doubt firms at 3L OCI will care.

If it's the latter, you want to trade up - why does it matter what the offer rate for the firm was, if you got one? No one has suggested that if you have an offer from the midlaw firm you have no shot at trading up - people have been assuming you're talking about being no-offered.


Interesting, thanks. Most small market firms won't even think about whether to offer anyone until September-October and OCI is in August. I guess the answer is that biglaw is working from biglaw assumptions-offers go out quickly to almost everyone-and they have no incentive to take a more nuanced look.




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