Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

[Anonymous User]

Just a gentle reminder to everyone:

It's kind of bad form to immediately ask people about their job situation, especially when you have an offer and don't know whether the other person has an offer. Even if you genuinely mean well and are just trying to find a topic of conversation, it still leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Idk if this has been happening alot, but I know of at least some instances. There's plenty of other stuff to talk about, most of which is not law-school related. Big congrats to everyone with offers, and best of luck and infinite support to those who struck out or are still waiting to hear back. Carry on

At my school (not UM), folks were very open about things and would not have considered this question bad form. Two close friends at Michigan at the same time, meanwhile, were happy to talk about their situations with me, but would have never considered asking the question to each other. I think you have to cut people some slack on both sides. It's a tense time and a tense topic.

From speaking with people at school (I'm at Mich), OCI was a shit show. Most people that were below a 3.7/LR struck out. I don't know anyone below a 3.4 with an offer. Shit was bad at our OCI, so, while I get this may not be the same everywhere, it seems like Mich students are even more sensitive about this issue than in years before (and we all know Mich students are more sensitive than pretty much everywhere else, maybe save Bezerkeley). So, I get the OP's point about not bringing it up if you already have an offer. However, I don't see a problem with someone who struck out asking someone else how they did, as both parties will likely be able to commiserate with each other.

While I agree that this year has been rough, the bolded is a ridiculous exaggeration.

[Anonymous User]

Just a gentle reminder to everyone:

It's kind of bad form to immediately ask people about their job situation, especially when you have an offer and don't know whether the other person has an offer. Even if you genuinely mean well and are just trying to find a topic of conversation, it still leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Idk if this has been happening alot, but I know of at least some instances. There's plenty of other stuff to talk about, most of which is not law-school related. Big congrats to everyone with offers, and best of luck and infinite support to those who struck out or are still waiting to hear back. Carry on

At my school (not UM), folks were very open about things and would not have considered this question bad form. Two close friends at Michigan at the same time, meanwhile, were happy to talk about their situations with me, but would have never considered asking the question to each other. I think you have to cut people some slack on both sides. It's a tense time and a tense topic.

From speaking with people at school (I'm at Mich), OCI was a shit show. Most people that were below a 3.7/LR struck out. I don't know anyone below a 3.4 with an offer. Shit was bad at our OCI, so, while I get this may not be the same everywhere, it seems like Mich students are even more sensitive about this issue than in years before (and we all know Mich students are more sensitive than pretty much everywhere else, maybe save Bezerkeley). So, I get the OP's point about not bringing it up if you already have an offer. However, I don't see a problem with someone who struck out asking someone else how they did, as both parties will likely be able to commiserate with each other.

While I agree that this year has been rough, the bolded is a ridiculous exaggeration.

3.7 is probably an exaggeration. I'd say 3.5 is more accurate - I think I know a whopping 1 person below a 3.5 with an offer.

[Anonymous User]

From speaking with people at school (I'm at Mich), OCI was a shit show. Most people that were below a 3.7/LR struck out. I don't know anyone below a 3.4 with an offer.

I was ready to come guns blazing with a retort, and then I realized I don't know anyone below a 3.4 with an offer, either. I definitely don't have one. I mean I'm sure plenty of people at median got offers, but this has been terrible.

[Anonymous User]

From speaking with people at school (I'm at Mich), OCI was a shit show. Most people that were below a 3.7/LR struck out. I don't know anyone below a 3.4 with an offer.

I was ready to come guns blazing with a retort, and then I realized I don't know anyone below a 3.4 with an offer, either. I definitely don't have one. I mean I'm sure plenty of people at median got offers, but this has been terrible.

Same. I'm a bit above median and I definitely don't have an offer (although I'm waiting on one, so you never know.) Also, I feel like mass mailing only works if your GPA is 3.4+ and OCI didn't work out for one reason or another. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I know people from last year and the year before who were median (or even below, in one case) who got offers. No clue what's wrong with our year.

[Anonymous User]

From speaking with people at school (I'm at Mich), OCI was a shit show. Most people that were below a 3.7/LR struck out. I don't know anyone below a 3.4 with an offer.

I was ready to come guns blazing with a retort, and then I realized I don't know anyone below a 3.4 with an offer, either. I definitely don't have one. I mean I'm sure plenty of people at median got offers, but this has been terrible.

Same. I'm a bit above median and I definitely don't have an offer (although I'm waiting on one, so you never know.) Also, I feel like mass mailing only works if your GPA is 3.4+ and OCI didn't work out for one reason or another. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I know people from last year and the year before who were median (or even below, in one case) who got offers. No clue what's wrong with our year.

Anon you quoted. I know that it's really feast or famine. I know a lot of people at the top of the class that have their pick of the litter right now. It's like you either have 5+ offers or 0. I only know a couple people that have 1-2, and those are people way above median. The mass mail is probably spot on. I've been mass mailing (below median) but have come up empty. And I've sent out a lot of stuff. Pretty disheartening. I wonder what OCP is thinking right now. I wonder if they care.

[Anonymous User]

From speaking with people at school (I'm at Mich), OCI was a shit show. Most people that were below a 3.7/LR struck out. I don't know anyone below a 3.4 with an offer.

I was ready to come guns blazing with a retort, and then I realized I don't know anyone below a 3.4 with an offer, either. I definitely don't have one. I mean I'm sure plenty of people at median got offers, but this has been terrible.

Same. I'm a bit above median and I definitely don't have an offer (although I'm waiting on one, so you never know.) Also, I feel like mass mailing only works if your GPA is 3.4+ and OCI didn't work out for one reason or another. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I know people from last year and the year before who were median (or even below, in one case) who got offers. No clue what's wrong with our year.

to offer a different perspective. everyone I know who did oci has an offer. None of them have a 3.7. admittedly most are in the 3.4-3.5 range. But, I know someone who described themselves as "substantially below a 3.4" who has 2 offers. I mean, it seems like it was rough this year. But IDK if it was as rough as people on this thread are saying.

[Anonymous User]

Were y'all targeting NYC or DC? Or K-JDs?

I wouldn't say I know a lot of people who are below 3.4 with offers, but I can think of some, and I certainly don't know most of my peers' GPAs. FMPOV (and obviously it's biased to the group of people for whom I know offer status & GPAs, who are mostly at or above median), GPA meant the difference between a SullCrom offer and a Jones Day offer, but things like market choice and work experience is where I'm really seeing people struggle with finding anything.

[Anonymous User]

K-JD. Chicago was terrible. Secondary home market also yielded no results.

[Anonymous User]

Were y'all targeting NYC or DC? Or K-JDs?

I wouldn't say I know a lot of people who are below 3.4 with offers, but I can think of some, and I certainly don't know most of my peers' GPAs. FMPOV (and obviously it's biased to the group of people for whom I know offer status & GPAs, who are mostly at or above median), GPA meant the difference between a SullCrom offer and a Jones Day offer, but things like market choice and work experience is where I'm really seeing people struggle with finding anything.

I was targeting NYC and Chicago. I have no ties to either and my GPA is slightly above median.

I think Chicago was really rough this year. I interviewed with a handful of firms right in my GPA range where I had researched the firm heavily (actually going to the firm and speaking with an associate, talking to the summer associates, emailed partners) and I didn't even get a callback.

[Anonymous User]

Were y'all targeting NYC or DC? Or K-JDs?

I wouldn't say I know a lot of people who are below 3.4 with offers, but I can think of some, and I certainly don't know most of my peers' GPAs. FMPOV (and obviously it's biased to the group of people for whom I know offer status & GPAs, who are mostly at or above median), GPA meant the difference between a SullCrom offer and a Jones Day offer, but things like market choice and work experience is where I'm really seeing people struggle with finding anything.

I was targeting NYC and Chicago. I have no ties to either and my GPA is slightly above median.

I think Chicago was really rough this year. I interviewed with a handful of firms right in my GPA range where I had researched the firm heavily (actually going to the firm and speaking with an associate, talking to the summer associates, emailed partners) and I didn't even get a callback.

I don't know if this will make you feel better or worse, but the CB:offer ratio has been a joke at Chicago firms as well. So even getting the CB is not enough; I think I had solid interviews at a lot of the places that I had CBs at, and the results were mostly dings and radio silence from firms reported above.

ETA: And I know Chicago harped on ties a lot, although they seem to do that every year.

[Anonymous User]

Were y'all targeting NYC or DC? Or K-JDs?

I wouldn't say I know a lot of people who are below 3.4 with offers, but I can think of some, and I certainly don't know most of my peers' GPAs. FMPOV (and obviously it's biased to the group of people for whom I know offer status & GPAs, who are mostly at or above median), GPA meant the difference between a SullCrom offer and a Jones Day offer, but things like market choice and work experience is where I'm really seeing people struggle with finding anything.

I was targeting NYC and Chicago. I have no ties to either and my GPA is slightly above median.

I think Chicago was really rough this year. I interviewed with a handful of firms right in my GPA range where I had researched the firm heavily (actually going to the firm and speaking with an associate, talking to the summer associates, emailed partners) and I didn't even get a callback.

I don't know if this will make you feel better or worse, but the CB:offer ratio has been a joke at Chicago firms as well. So even getting the CB is not enough; I think I had solid interviews at a lot of the places that I had CBs at, and the results were mostly dings and radio silence from firms reported above.

ETA: And I know Chicago harped on ties a lot, although they seem to do that every year.

This, Chicago was Brutal. I know someone who got 15 callbacks in Chicago, went on 11 and ended up with 2 offers. got 5 callbacks in NYC went on 3, got 3 offers. Chicago is just a brutal legal market.

[Anonymous User]

Were y'all targeting NYC or DC? Or K-JDs?

I wouldn't say I know a lot of people who are below 3.4 with offers, but I can think of some, and I certainly don't know most of my peers' GPAs. FMPOV (and obviously it's biased to the group of people for whom I know offer status & GPAs, who are mostly at or above median), GPA meant the difference between a SullCrom offer and a Jones Day offer, but things like market choice and work experience is where I'm really seeing people struggle with finding anything.

I was targeting NYC and Chicago. I have no ties to either and my GPA is slightly above median.

I think Chicago was really rough this year. I interviewed with a handful of firms right in my GPA range where I had researched the firm heavily (actually going to the firm and speaking with an associate, talking to the summer associates, emailed partners) and I didn't even get a callback.

I don't know if this will make you feel better or worse, but the CB:offer ratio has been a joke at Chicago firms as well. So even getting the CB is not enough; I think I had solid interviews at a lot of the places that I had CBs at, and the results were mostly dings and radio silence from firms reported above.

ETA: And I know Chicago harped on ties a lot, although they seem to do that every year.

This, Chicago was Brutal. I know someone who got 15 callbacks in Chicago, went on 11 and ended up with 2 offers. got 5 callbacks in NYC went on 3, got 3 offers. Chicago is just a brutal legal market.

I must be hanging out with a completely different group of people than you guys are. I know at least five people with GPAs in the 3.0-3.3 range that have offers (NY, DC, Chicago), I also know multiple people who have offers in secondary markets in MI, OH, KY, PA, and IN - most below the magical 3.4 mark.

Personally, I think a lot of the problem is people not bidding smart. If you are in the 25th percentile for every firm you had at OCI, it will be hard for you to get a callback/offer. Granted, this is all just from my own personal experience and observation, but I don't think it's fair to label our OCI a shitshow when I know plenty of people at median that would argue otherwise.

[Anonymous User]

On another note, if I had a callback last week, haven't heard anything, but the firm is posted on the list of offers that were made to Michigan students....am I totally screwed?

I am asking this question fully knowing that no one knows the answer to this question. Just had to ask.

[Anonymous User]

I agree with bidding, but I disagree that the problem is bidding too high. I was fairly successful converting screeners to CBs. I certainly didn't get the 20 that anon above's friend had, but ~10 cbs after 20 screeners. Every CB except one was at a firm that I was between 25-50 (or no GPA listed) [the one, for the record, I was a hair under the 25th]. The places where I was above median all dinged me. Granted, that all may have something to do with why I'm not swimming in offers after I had quite a few CBs, but I'd also be wary about advising people not to reach at all.

[Anonymous User]

On another note, if I had a callback last week, haven't heard anything, but the firm is posted on the list of offers that were made to Michigan students....am I totally screwed?

I am asking this question fully knowing that no one knows the answer to this question. Just had to ask.

Your CB was last week. People have been doing CBs since August 21, and that's not taking into consideration those who did pre-OCI CBs. Don't count yourself out of the race, but don't rely on that one offer, either.

[Anonymous User]

I agree with bidding, but I disagree that the problem is bidding too high. I was fairly successful converting screeners to CBs. I certainly didn't get the 20 that anon above's friend had, but ~10 cbs after 20 screeners. Every CB except one was at a firm that I was between 25-50 (or no GPA listed) [the one, for the record, I was a hair under the 25th]. The places where I was above median all dinged me. Granted, that all may have something to do with why I'm not swimming in offers after I had quite a few CBs, but I'd also be wary about advising people not to reach at all.

I wasn't trying to infer that people shouldn't reach (10 of my 30 bids were reaches - and five of my interviews during OCI), I just noticed that a lot of people only bid reaches thinking that they would be that special person in the 25th percentile. That is not a smart bidding strategy.

[Anonymous User]

I agree with bidding, but I disagree that the problem is bidding too high. I was fairly successful converting screeners to CBs. I certainly didn't get the 20 that anon above's friend had, but ~10 cbs after 20 screeners. Every CB except one was at a firm that I was between 25-50 (or no GPA listed) [the one, for the record, I was a hair under the 25th]. The places where I was above median all dinged me. Granted, that all may have something to do with why I'm not swimming in offers after I had quite a few CBs, but I'd also be wary about advising people not to reach at all.

I wasn't trying to infer that people shouldn't reach (10 of my 30 bids were reaches - and five of my interviews during OCI), I just noticed that a lot of people only bid reaches thinking that they would be that special person in the 25th percentile. That is not a smart bidding strategy.

Just arguing that the reverse is true too: a firm is not going to fawn all over you just because you're above their median. For most of the class, being above median for a firm just means they care more about fit than grades. That then means that firms where you're between 25-50 care somewhat about grades, but your grades aren't under a cut-off so you don't have to overcome them in quite the same way you do as when you're under the 25th.

[Anonymous User]

I know people w/o offers, and I agree that Chi was really rough. But I think the people who seriously targeted secondary markets did better. I have a 3.1 GPA, and I have 3 offers in secondary markets. THis info would probably have been more helpful 6 months ago from OCP...

[Anonymous User]

I don't know. Maybe I'm just completely awkward and nobody has ever told me. Sitting on 0 offers and I only bid in places to which I had very strong ties.

[Anonymous User]

I don't know. Maybe I'm just completely awkward and nobody has ever told me. Sitting on 0 offers and I only bid in places to which I had very strong ties.

This is the main problem with bidding only secondaries: there is a substantial chunk of the class who can't because secondaries are more sensitive than most about ties. If you grew up in a major market or even a tiny place with no legal market to speak of, you likely don't have a secondary to gun.

You can't beat yourself up or blame yourself over the lack of offers, anon, and I hope you don't think that the general vibe of this thread is trying to do so. People striking out are doing so because of some combination of circumstances, most of which are out of your control and generally unforeseeable. But I think it's good to hear from people who are doing well below median because of the 1Ls and prospective students who follow this thread.

[Anonymous User]

Agreed that Chicago was brutal. The CB conversion rate seems to have been really low from my group of friends. That said, I know someone who was well below median and got a market-paying gig through OCI (K-JD, presumably a good interviewer). As a general rule, though, it seems pretty rough.

[Anonymous User]

1) I agree this year has been brutal

2) I think part of it has to do with Mich's curve being so low. Lower than any other T14 as far as I know (that is on a 4.0 scale). I think the school for a while assumed/hoped that firms were adjusting their expectations based on our curve but that doesn't happen. Thankfully (although not for us) they've moved the curve up for class of 2016. I think that will make a huge difference.

3) damn summer starters. They clean up.

[Anonymous User]

Chiming in so 1Ls and prospective students don't get scared away. I am a K-JD with good grades with multiple offers, and know of multiple other K-JDs that are not on law review AND are below 3.4 that have multiple offers in Chicago WITHOUT strong ties.

My point is I think this process is highly individualized, like many other people have said.

[RedSwingline]

nternational:
MoFo

Los Angeles:
Gibson Dunn
Irell
Kirkland & Ellis
Sidley Austin

SF/Silicon Valley:
Cooley - SF
Latham - SF
Latham - SV
WSGR - SV

NYC:
Clifford Chance
Cravath
Debevoise
DPW
Gibson Dunn
Jones Day
Kirkland & Ellis
Mayer Brown
Milbank
Morgan Lewis
Paul Weiss
Proskauer
Quinn Emanuel
Sidley Austin
Simpson Thacher
Skadden
SullCrom
Weil
White & Case
Willkie Farr

Chicago:
Jenner
Jones Day
K&L Gates
Kirkland & Ellis
Latham
Mayer Brown
Schiff
Sidley Austin
Winston & Strawn

DC:
Crowell
Gibson Dunn
Hogan Lovells
Skadden

Michigan:
Miller Canfield
Honigman
Clark Hill
Dykema - Bloomfield Hills

[Anonymous User]

nternational:
MoFo

Los Angeles:
Gibson Dunn
Irell
Kirkland & Ellis
Sidley Austin

SF/Silicon Valley:
Cooley - SF
Latham - SF
Latham - SV
WSGR - SV

NYC:
Clifford Chance
Cravath
Debevoise
DPW
Gibson Dunn
Jones Day
Kirkland & Ellis
Mayer Brown
Milbank
Morgan Lewis
Paul Weiss
Proskauer
Quinn Emanuel
Sidley Austin
Simpson Thacher
Skadden
SullCrom
Weil
White & Case
Willkie Farr

Chicago:
Jenner
Jones Day
K&L Gates
Kirkland & Ellis
Latham
Mayer Brown
Schiff
Sidley Austin
Winston & Strawn

DC:
Crowell
Gibson Dunn
Hogan Lovells
Skadden

Michigan:
Clark Hill
Dykema - Bloomfield Hills
Honigman
Miller Canfield

When did you hear back from Dykema in relation to your cb?