Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
potted plant
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:01 pm

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby potted plant » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:51 pm

oblig.lawl.ref wrote:That list looks pretty good. I have the same goal and my top 5 are pretty much identical to yours.

I have Latham significantly higher b/c I am really interested in their SV office and I wasn't sure how quickly the SV office slots would fill up. I know they weren't overbid last year but I wasn't sure how that shook out office to office.

Otherwise most of your bids are within the same 2-3 spots of mine. I tended to bid more dominant and interesting offices (to me anyways) higher (e.g. STB, Ropes, K&E) than you because I'd rather get an interview with them and lose a couple off my total than be stuck with an office like Dechert/Shearman which IIRC have very small SA classes in the Bay.

Good luck!

This is very helpful, thank you.

User avatar
RedSwingline
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:45 am

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby RedSwingline » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:11 pm

potted plant wrote:Hey guys, bidding SF/SV non-IP. I'll probably add another market to fill out my list, but looking for feedback of my ordering here in terms of maximizing interviews. Any thoughts? Any other feedback is appreciated as well.

1. Mofo
2. Cooley
3. Wilson Sonsini
4. Jones Day
5. Gunderson Dettmer
6. O'Melveny
7. Gibson Dunn
8. DLA Piper
9. Sheppard Mullin
10. Shearman & Sterling
11. Dechert
12. Simpson Thacher
13. Hogan Lovells
14. Mayer Brown
15. Ropes & Gray
16. Kirkland
17. Perkins Coie
18. Schiff Hardin
19. Alston & Bird
20. Paul Hastings
21. Latham
22. Nixon Peabody
23. Pillsbury Winthrop


You could also throw in Morgan Lewis. And, you should probably put Nixon Peabody and Pillsbury high on your bid list given they are low GPA firms and fill up quickly. Last year, for all offices, only 35% of all bids for Nixon Peabody ended up in OCI interviews. That number is 29% for Pillsbury.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273366
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:17 pm

RedSwingline wrote:You could also throw in Morgan Lewis. And, you should probably put Nixon Peabody and Pillsbury high on your bid list given they are low GPA firms and fill up quickly. Last year, for all offices, only 35% of all bids for Nixon Peabody ended up in OCI interviews. That number is 29% for Pillsbury.


3L here - this is good advice. Generally, I found it best to make a list of all the firms I was interested in (based on market and practice area). Then, I ordered the bid list based on 1) the GPA selectivity (less selective = top of the list), 2) class size (larger = top of list), and 3) number of markets the firm is interviewing for (more markets = put higher on the list, since more people will be bidding on them). Probability-wise, that's the best way to maximize interviews and to boost your odds of an offer.

That said, this is hardly an exact science, so it's hard to say exactly how much relative weight to put on each of the above.

potted plant
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:01 pm

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby potted plant » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
RedSwingline wrote:You could also throw in Morgan Lewis. And, you should probably put Nixon Peabody and Pillsbury high on your bid list given they are low GPA firms and fill up quickly. Last year, for all offices, only 35% of all bids for Nixon Peabody ended up in OCI interviews. That number is 29% for Pillsbury.


3L here - this is good advice. Generally, I found it best to make a list of all the firms I was interested in (based on market and practice area). Then, I ordered the bid list based on 1) the GPA selectivity (less selective = top of the list), 2) class size (larger = top of list), and 3) number of markets the firm is interviewing for (more markets = put higher on the list, since more people will be bidding on them). Probability-wise, that's the best way to maximize interviews and to boost your odds of an offer.

That said, this is hardly an exact science, so it's hard to say exactly how much relative weight to put on each of the above.


I actually did this in a completely different way. I didn't look at class size or GPA selectivity at all. I just looked at the number of interview slots from last year and the percentage of people bidding who got interviews. I also took into account the number of markets for each firm, because that can sort of skew the bidding/interview success rate.

I also did some of my ordering based on firm preference. Since there are a limited number of SF/SV firms coming to OCI I'm bidding on all of the non-IP firms, but there are definitely some firms on the list that I have pretty minimal interest in. That's why I put Nixon Peabody and Pillsbury at the bottom of my list. I'm pretty okay with not getting interviews with those firms.

Is it really important to take into account GPA selectivity if, presumably, that's factored into the number of people who bid that firm in the past? Also, I know big class size increases chances of an offer, but that alone isn't going to have an impact on getting a lottery interview, right? Not in any way that isn't already reflected in the percentage of people who bid a firm that actually got interviews. Some firms with big class sizes have a huge number of interview slots and some have very few, so I think looking at class size alone could be a bit misleading.

Am I missing something? Or is it okay to mostly base my ordering off of the 2012 EIW bidding data.

Oh, and I will add Morgan Lewis. Left them off by accident.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273366
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:11 pm

Does anyone know if there are firms that absolutely require - as opposed to prefer - a journal? Do some firms care more than others about journal status? I don't want to waste time interviewing with firms that need to check a box, and I want to plan accordingly for the firms that will ask me "so why no journal?" Any advice is appreciated.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273366
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone know if there are firms that absolutely require - as opposed to prefer - a journal? Do some firms care more than others about journal status? I don't want to waste time interviewing with firms that need to check a box, and I want to plan accordingly for the firms that will ask me "so why no journal?" Any advice is appreciated.


I was on a journal but absolutely no firm I interviewed with when I did OCI asked me about it. I really don't think they care.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273366
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote: I was on a journal but absolutely no firm I interviewed with when I did OCI asked me about it. I really don't think they care.

Most firms will not ask you about your journal (after all what could you tell them), but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not important. Just like grades, they can just tell this from your resume/application. A Skadden interviewer showed me the form he was required to fill out, with a box for journal.

With that said, I wouldn't sweat not being on a secondary journal. Even if you get dinged at a few firms, it's going to be really hard figuring out who has absolute requirement. Even my anecdote about Skadden is meaningless (who knows how controlling a box on that form was). Come up with another activity you want to spend your time doing: externship (plenty of places in AA/Detroit love Michigan students), clinic, etc. You can even get units for your externship if you want. If you get a question about journal, say you thought your time was more valuable improving your writing/research skills at X job, rather than doing cite checking for (lazy) professors.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273366
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: I was on a journal but absolutely no firm I interviewed with when I did OCI asked me about it. I really don't think they care.

Most firms will not ask you about your journal (after all what could you tell them), but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not important. Just like grades, they can just tell this from your resume/application. A Skadden interviewer showed me the form he was required to fill out, with a box for journal.

With that said, I wouldn't sweat not being on a secondary journal. Even if you get dinged at a few firms, it's going to be really hard figuring out who has absolute requirement. Even my anecdote about Skadden is meaningless (who knows how controlling a box on that form was). Come up with another activity you want to spend your time doing: externship (plenty of places in AA/Detroit love Michigan students), clinic, etc. You can even get units for your externship if you want. If you get a question about journal, say you thought your time was more valuable improving your writing/research skills at X job, rather than doing cite checking for (lazy) professors.


This is great. Thanks.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273366
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:46 pm

Would anyone mind critiquing my bidlist so far? Some background: GPA is ~3.4, K-JD, secondary journal, been told I'm a solid interviewer. I'm targeting Chicago and a midwestern secondary (strong ties), but I wouldn't mind working in NY either. Any advice is appreciated. Thank you!

Katten Muchin (Chi)
Schiff Hardin (Chi)
Chapman and Cutler (Chi)
K&L Gates (Chi)
Milbank (NY)
Baker & McKenzie (Chi)
Cadwalader (NY)
Schulte (NY)
Edwards Wildman (Chi)
Greenberg Traurig (Chi)
Dykema (Chi)
Jenner (Chi)
Winston & Strawn (Chi)
Goldberg Kohn (Chi)
Sidley Austin (NY)
Drinker Biddle (Chi)
Proskauer (NY)
Vedder Price (Chi)
Morgan Lewis & Bockius (Chi)
Secondary
Secondary
Secondary
Secondary
Locke Lord (Chi)
Mayer Brown (NY)
Thompson Coburn (Chi)
Howard & Howard (Chi)
Sheppard Mullin (Chi)
Weil (NY)
Dechert (NY)
Nixon Peabody (NY)

Anonymous User
Posts: 273366
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Would anyone mind critiquing my bidlist so far? Some background: GPA is ~3.4, K-JD, secondary journal, been told I'm a solid interviewer. I'm targeting Chicago and a midwestern secondary (strong ties), but I wouldn't mind working in NY either. Any advice is appreciated. Thank you!

Katten Muchin (Chi)
Schiff Hardin (Chi)
Chapman and Cutler (Chi)
K&L Gates (Chi)
Milbank (NY)
Baker & McKenzie (Chi)
Cadwalader (NY)
Schulte (NY)
Edwards Wildman (Chi)
Greenberg Traurig (Chi)
Dykema (Chi)
Jenner (Chi)
Winston & Strawn (Chi)
Goldberg Kohn (Chi)
Sidley Austin (NY)
Drinker Biddle (Chi)
Proskauer (NY)
Vedder Price (Chi)
Morgan Lewis & Bockius (Chi)
Secondary
Secondary
Secondary
Secondary
Locke Lord (Chi)
Mayer Brown (NY)
Thompson Coburn (Chi)
Howard & Howard (Chi)
Sheppard Mullin (Chi)
Weil (NY)
Dechert (NY)
Nixon Peabody (NY)


Assuming these are in order, there is no way you're getting Mayer Brown (NY), Dechert (NY) or Nixon Peabody (NY) that low, so they're wasted bids. Aren't secondary market firms the easiest to get? So maybe you should move those down?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273366
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Assuming these are in order, there is no way you're getting Mayer Brown (NY), Dechert (NY) or Nixon Peabody (NY) that low, so they're wasted bids. Aren't secondary market firms the easiest to get? So maybe you should move those down?


Yeah, I just kind of threw those in there to fill up the last few spots, but maybe I'll just take them out completely and put more Chicago firms in there. Thanks.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273366
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Would anyone mind critiquing my bidlist so far? Some background: GPA is ~3.4, K-JD, secondary journal, been told I'm a solid interviewer. I'm targeting Chicago and a midwestern secondary (strong ties), but I wouldn't mind working in NY either. Any advice is appreciated. Thank you!

It's a bit risky to have a 2/3 Chicago bidlist with a 3.4, especially since you went straight through. You are outside of Kirkland and Sidley's range and the remaining Chicago firms have very small classes and are notorious for wanting ties. I know you said you have strong midwestern ties, but do you also have strong Chicago ties? Are you working in Chicago this summer? Have you been networking with Chicago firms?

If I were you, I'd reevaluate how much you want Chicago. If you really want Chicago, and don't mind the added risk of striking out, this list looks okay with the suggestions made above. But if it were me, I'd make the list at least 50-50 NY/Chicago and mass-mail all the remaining Chicago firms you are interested in. Good luck.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273366
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:05 pm

*
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
descartesb4thehorse
Posts: 1147
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:03 am

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Assuming these are in order, there is no way you're getting Mayer Brown (NY), Dechert (NY) or Nixon Peabody (NY) that low, so they're wasted bids. Aren't secondary market firms the easiest to get? So maybe you should move those down?

K&L Pittsburgh had a whopping 5% bid-to-interview ratio last year, so I'm gonna go ahead and say no, secondary markets are not automatically easier. And depending on the market, can be a lot harder.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273366
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Would anyone mind critiquing my bidlist so far? Some background: GPA is ~3.4, K-JD, secondary journal, been told I'm a solid interviewer. I'm targeting Chicago and a midwestern secondary (strong ties), but I wouldn't mind working in NY either. Any advice is appreciated. Thank you!

It's a bit risky to have a 2/3 Chicago bidlist with a 3.4, especially since you went straight through. You are outside of Kirkland and Sidley's range and the remaining Chicago firms have very small classes and are notorious for wanting ties. I know you said you have strong midwestern ties, but do you also have strong Chicago ties? Are you working in Chicago this summer? Have you been networking with Chicago firms?

If I were you, I'd reevaluate how much you want Chicago. If you really want Chicago, and don't mind the added risk of striking out, this list looks okay with the suggestions made above. But if it were me, I'd make the list at least 50-50 NY/Chicago and mass-mail all the remaining Chicago firms you are interested in. Good luck.

OP here. Sorry, I should have clarified. Fiancee is living in chicago indefinitely, and my family is only about 2 hrs away, too. I havent been able to really network in chicago because i'm not working there this summer -- couldn't afford to pass up no rent in my home secondary. Does this change your opinion at all? Thanks for the advice.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273366
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:Just did a mass-mail screener in a target secondary. Seemed to go alright, but there was one thing I forgot to mention during the interview. So, I sent the interviewer a thank you email from my phone and briefly mentioned it (I didn't have computer access all afternoon, so I figured it would be good to send an email ASAP while the interview was still fresh in his head). Proofread the email several times and it looked fine. Then I look at how it formatted on a computer, and it looks terrible, and there is a glaring typo, too. Feels terrible. Should I even bother saying anything about it?


I'm the OP of the quoted post. Just wanted to report that I got a callback from this firm! It's funny too, because the interviewer made the callback offer in response to my weirdly formatted//typo'ed email, so I know he probably read it. Fucking lol. Pretty stoked at the moment.

potted plant
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:01 pm

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby potted plant » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:54 am

Hey everyone,

I need 5-6 more firms to fill my bidlist. Family emergency means I probably won't have much time to think about this for the next couple of days. Wondering if anybody can give me advice on DC firms that are strong in regulatory work, antitrust, litigation and that I could conceivably get interviews with bidding them low on my list. I'd really appreciate any advice at all. Thanks!

Anonymous User
Posts: 273366
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Sorry, I should have clarified. Fiancee is living in chicago indefinitely, and my family is only about 2 hrs away, too. I havent been able to really network in chicago because i'm not working there this summer -- couldn't afford to pass up no rent in my home secondary. Does this change your opinion at all? Thanks for the advice.

Those sound like good ties. I definitely understand wanting to be with your fiance and saving on rent for the summer.

With that said, you need to start doing what you can to help yourself come OCI time. If you're planning on making a trip to Chicago before OCI, you should try to setup as many informational interviews as you can with Michigan alumni at firms you are bidding on. Also try to speak with Michigan students who summered at Chicago firms. Play up your Chicago ties: put your fiance's Chicago address in addition to your AA address on your resume, have tailored cover letters, etc. Start mass mailing Chicago and NY firms.

GMVarun
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:48 pm

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby GMVarun » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:50 am

potted plant wrote:Hey everyone,

I need 5-6 more firms to fill my bidlist. Family emergency means I probably won't have much time to think about this for the next couple of days. Wondering if anybody can give me advice on DC firms that are strong in regulatory work, antitrust, litigation and that I could conceivably get interviews with bidding them low on my list. I'd really appreciate any advice at all. Thanks!

Pretty much all DC firms are strong in litigation and regulatory work. Cleary has a very solid antitrust practice, as does A&P, Covington, Skadden, and Jones Day. I'm sure you could get Covington lower on your list and probably could get Cleary and Skadden a bit lower too.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273366
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:43 pm

Second time in two weeks that a firm has told me they aren't coming to Michigan for OCI anymore because its not worth the cost. Can't tell if this is an insult, a cop-out or what. It's especially weird cause both go to Duke, and I can't believe it's cheaper to get/stay there than Michigan.

User avatar
BuckinghamB
Posts: 457
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:37 pm

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby BuckinghamB » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:07 pm

^^ Would you mind sharing the market the firms are from (or even the firms if you're comfortable) via PM? I want to know if they're the firms I'm thinking of.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273366
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:43 pm

BuckinghamB wrote:^^ Would you mind sharing the market the firms are from (or even the firms if you're comfortable) via PM? I want to know if they're the firms I'm thinking of.


Orrick and Curtis Mallet. The latter of which recruits at every single T14 except Michigan.

Edit: looks like orrick too recruits from every t14 except Michigan, plus a lot more.

What gives?

oblig.lawl.ref
Posts: 232
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:28 pm

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby oblig.lawl.ref » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
BuckinghamB wrote:^^ Would you mind sharing the market the firms are from (or even the firms if you're comfortable) via PM? I want to know if they're the firms I'm thinking of.


Orrick and Curtis Mallet. The latter of which recruits at every single T14 except Michigan.

Edit: looks like orrick too recruits from every t14 except Michigan, plus a lot more.

What gives?


I didn't think Orrick was ever coming? I'm like 99.5% certain their SF/SV office was never coming. Was it a different office? Anyways I don't know if I would read much into it. I bet you could find examples of other firms that hire at all T14s except one. I would be surprised to find that Orrick's hiring committee collectively thinks Duke students are just more worthwhile than Michigan students.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273366
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:38 pm

I'm 100% sure Orrick SF/SV was never coming.

User avatar
BuckinghamB
Posts: 457
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:37 pm

Re: Michigan 2013 OCI Thread

Postby BuckinghamB » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:53 pm

Weird, Curtis Mallet apparently has no Michigan lawyers. Unless I just failed at using the search tool on their website.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.