Michigan 2013 OCI Thread Forum

[Anonymous User]

3) damn summer starters. They clean up.

This. I can think of ten summer starters off the top of my head who had more then ten callbacks, and I know the number of callbacks for maybe 15 summer starters.

[Anonymous User]

3) damn summer starters. They clean up.

This. I can think of ten summer starters off the top of my head who had more then ten callbacks, and I know the number of callbacks for maybe 15 summer starters.

It's all fun and games until you realize that (for the firm I have an offer at, at least) your associate class won't start until more than a year after you graduate.

[Anonymous User]

3) damn summer starters. They clean up.

This. I can think of ten summer starters off the top of my head who had more then ten callbacks, and I know the number of callbacks for maybe 15 summer starters.

It's all fun and games until you realize that (for the firm I have an offer at, at least) your associate class won't start until more than a year after you graduate.

I'm the quoted person talking about the number of callbacks summer starters get, and I a summer starter. I am constantly confused by people thinking having more free time before starting their jobs is a bad thing.

[Anonymous User]

3) damn summer starters. They clean up.

This. I can think of ten summer starters off the top of my head who had more then ten callbacks, and I know the number of callbacks for maybe 15 summer starters.

It's all fun and games until you realize that (for the firm I have an offer at, at least) your associate class won't start until more than a year after you graduate.

I'm the quoted person talking about the number of callbacks summer starters get, and I a summer starter. I am constantly confused by people thinking having more free time before starting their jobs is a bad thing.

The same reason people who are unemployed don't enjoy their free time? I'm a SS too, and I don't come from family money. Any savings I did have before LS are long gone. Firm's willing to cough up a few bucks for me to take the bar and move a few states over, but it's not a liveable sum for 13 months.

[Anonymous User]

This. I can think of ten summer starters off the top of my head who had more then ten callbacks, and I know the number of callbacks for maybe 15 summer starters.

It's all fun and games until you realize that (for the firm I have an offer at, at least) your associate class won't start until more than a year after you graduate.

I'm the quoted person talking about the number of callbacks summer starters get, and I a summer starter. I am constantly confused by people thinking having more free time before starting their jobs is a bad thing.

The same reason people who are unemployed don't enjoy their free time? I'm a SS too, and I don't come from family money. Any savings I did have before LS are long gone. Firm's willing to cough up a few bucks for me to take the bar and move a few states over, but it's not a liveable sum for 13 months.

I'm in a similar situation. report your giant future salary, get credit cards, and enjoy your last period of free time for the rest of your adult life (hopefully). maybe it's just me. But I feel like this is a blessing not a problem. But maybe I just have a weird view on the situation.

[Anonymous User]

With regard to the "summer starter dilemma":

My firm says they allow summer starters to start right after the February bar. They pay you as a 1st year, but your official title is "law clerk" until your license goes through. But, they also said they don't recommend it because going straight from school to bar to work is a bit much. They said they encourage people to take a few months off and start in June/July.

[RedSwingline]

International:
MoFo

Los Angeles:
Gibson Dunn
Irell
Kirkland & Ellis
Sidley Austin

SF/Silicon Valley:
Cooley - SF
Latham - SF
Latham - SV
WSGR - SV

NYC:
Clifford Chance
Cravath
Debevoise
DPW
Gibson Dunn
hogan lovells
Jones Day
Kirkland & Ellis
Mayer Brown
Milbank
Morgan Lewis
Paul Weiss
Proskauer
Quinn Emanuel
Sidley Austin
Simpson Thacher
Skadden
SullCrom
Weil
White & Case
Willkie Farr

Chicago:
Jenner
Jones Day
K&L Gates
Kirkland & Ellis
Latham
Mayer Brown
Schiff
Sidley Austin
Winston & Strawn

DC:
Crowell
Gibson Dunn
hogan lovells
Skadden

Michigan:
Miller Canfield
Honigman
Clark Hill
Dykema - Bloomfield Hills

[Anonymous User]

As bad as it seems, I'm just glad to get validation that other Mich people struggled at OCI too. I struck out but I don't feel comfortable talking to my school friends about it cause some of them are doing pretty well. I've just been avoiding the topic altogether.

I wish Mich had changed the curve for our class. There's no reason to have it so low and I doubt that all firms know or care that we have an abnormally low curve.

[Anonymous User]

There's no reason to have it so low and I doubt that all firms know or care that we have an abnormally low curve.

I have a family friend who is head of recruiting at a firm in NY and she confirmed to me that firms definitely do not adjust their cutoffs for schools with different curves. Our curve is definitely lower than our peer schools so it is undoubtedly a disadvantage.

Columbia's curve makes anything less than a B pretty much discretionary. When I tell friends at peer schools that 1L profs here are basically required to give a certain amount of C+'s, and quite a solid chunk of B-'s, they can't believe it.

[Anonymous User]

I have a family friend who is head of recruiting at a firm in NY and she confirmed to me that firms definitely do not adjust their cutoffs for schools with different curves. Our curve is definitely lower than our peer schools so it is undoubtedly a disadvantage.

I have some personal knowledge of several v50 firm cutoffs and relatively intimate knowledge of my firms...and I can tell you they are definitely different at different schools to reflect both the curve and the firm's perception of the school's students. Maybe firms that focus on NYC schools don't for those schools...but they definitely do throughout the rest of the T14.

When my firm comes to OCI they are given a breakdown of GPA to curve equivalents (similar to Baum's letter for clerkships). They care about your place in the class...not the actual GPA.

[Anonymous User]

I have a family friend who is head of recruiting at a firm in NY and she confirmed to me that firms definitely do not adjust their cutoffs for schools with different curves. Our curve is definitely lower than our peer schools so it is undoubtedly a disadvantage.

I have some personal knowledge of several v50 firm cutoffs and relatively intimate knowledge of my firms...and I can tell you they are definitely different at different schools to reflect both the curve and the firm's perception of the school's students. Maybe firms that focus on NYC schools don't for those schools...but they definitely do throughout the rest of the T14.

When my firm comes to OCI they are given a breakdown of GPA to curve equivalents (similar to Baum's letter for clerkships). They care about your place in the class...not the actual GPA.

You may be right. I'm sure different firms do it differently. However, I highly doubt Michigan would be raising their curve if they thought that it was perfectly fine and beneficial to students as it currently stands.

[Anonymous User]

Person that had a CB with Foley -- have you heard anything?

[Anonymous User]

I'm a summer starter 3L, and many of my section-mates are starting work right after the bar. Those that aren't are funding their time until they start working with money made at their firm last summer (a significant portion of which will come in the spring in the form of tax refunds) and summer advances from their firm. All that is going to amount to more than the cost-of-living loans I take out every term, so I really don't foresee it being a problem.

[Anonymous User]

Just got Latham NYC. I thought the CB went TERRIBLY. Very surprised I got the offer. Edited the list


MoFo

Los Angeles:
Gibson Dunn
Irell
Kirkland & Ellis
Sidley Austin

SF/Silicon Valley:
Cooley - SF
Latham - SF
Latham - SV
WSGR - SV

NYC:
Clifford Chance
Cravath
Debevoise
DPW
Gibson Dunn
hogan lovells
Jones Day
Kirkland & Ellis
Latham
Mayer Brown
Milbank
Morgan Lewis
Paul Weiss
Proskauer
Quinn Emanuel
Schulte
Sidley Austin
Simpson Thacher
Skadden
SullCrom
Weil
White & Case
Willkie Farr

Chicago:
Jenner
Jones Day
K&L Gates
Kirkland & Ellis
Latham
Mayer Brown
Schiff
Sidley Austin
Winston & Strawn

DC:
Crowell
Gibson Dunn
hogan lovells
Skadden

Michigan:
Miller Canfield
Honigman
Clark Hill
Dykema - Bloomfield Hills

[Anonymous User]

As bad as it seems, I'm just glad to get validation that other Mich people struggled at OCI too. I struck out but I don't feel comfortable talking to my school friends about it cause some of them are doing pretty well. I've just been avoiding the topic altogether.

I wish Mich had changed the curve for our class. There's no reason to have it so low and I doubt that all firms know or care that we have an abnormally low curve.

Are you sure it's the curve? I'm K-JD barely above median and got a V5. I know someone else with ~3.7 and great WE who did not do so well. Have you gone over your interview answers with OCS? Did you have detailed, believable answers to "Why our firm?"

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone else have a problem with Michigan changing the curve so drastically?

I feel like it would terribly undermine our class compared to 2016. Imagine competing with someone for a job, that's a 1L this year and your equivalent in terms of rank but has a .15 higher GPA. Its not like you could ever explain that, you would not even be given the chance.

For Example, if next year as a 3L, I am once again looking for a gig and I am coming in at a 3.3 but my equal as a 2L has a 3.45..... I mean come on.

[Anonymous User]

I'm K-JD barely above median and got a V5. I know someone else with ~3.7 and great WE who did not do so well. Have you gone over your interview answers with OCS? Did you have detailed, believable answers to "Why our firm?"

Good job. You are me last year. Way to win the game.

[Anonymous User]

Man the special snowflake syndrome here is annoying as fuck. Yes you did well barely above median. Congrats. Maybe you interview well or maybe you have something on your resume or maybe you got lucky or maybe all of the above. But for the love of god, let's not tell our classmates who struck out that it was probably their personality or interviewing ability when you have no fucking idea whether or not that's true.

Also: Edwards wildmen Chicago, Cleary dc, Steptoe dc, Kong and spalding dc, and Paul Weiss dc have given offers.

[Anonymous User]

MoFo

Los Angeles:
Gibson Dunn
Irell
Kirkland & Ellis
Sidley Austin

SF/Silicon Valley:
Cooley - SF
Latham - SF
Latham - SV
WSGR - SV

NYC:
Clifford Chance
Cravath
Debevoise
DPW
Gibson Dunn
Hogan Lovells
Jones Day
Kirkland & Ellis
Latham
Mayer Brown
Milbank
Morgan Lewis
Paul Weiss
Proskauer
Quinn Emanuel
Schulte
Sidley Austin
Simpson Thacher
Skadden
SullCrom
Weil
White & Case
Willkie Farr

Chicago:
Jenner
Jones Day
K&L Gates
Kirkland & Ellis
Latham
Mayer Brown
Schiff
Sidley Austin
Winston & Strawn
Edwards Wildman Palmer

DC:
Crowell
Gibson Dunn
Hogan Lovells
Skadden
Cleary
Steptoe
Paul Weiss
King & Spalding

Michigan:
Miller Canfield
Honigman
Clark Hill
Dykema - Bloomfield Hills

[Anonymous User]

Gibson sf too

[Anonymous User]

Hey, just FYI people. I had a very small number of callbacks and received an offer. I was nervous because I was rejected by all callbacks until the final one, which resulted in an offer, so I mass mailed. I mass mailed about 50 NY firms beginning about a week or two ago and already received two interviews that way. Regardless of how crappy your situation seems, do NOT give up hope.

[Anonymous User]

Hey, just FYI people. I had a very small number of callbacks and received an offer. I was nervous because I was rejected by all callbacks until the final one, which resulted in an offer, so I mass mailed. I mass mailed about 50 NY firms beginning about a week or two ago and already received two interviews that way. Regardless of how crappy your situation seems, do NOT give up hope.

Grades? Cause i've mass mailed pretty much every firm in NY with nothing to come from it. I said this in another thread but this catch-all advice is not helpful. "Hey guys just mass mail you'll be fine it worked for me" doesn't help when your GPA is .3 points above the poor guy who takes your advice.

The only thing in common between people with drastically different GPAs might be that they got less offers than expected. But if you were interviewing in the V10 exclusively and you ONLY GOT ONE OFFER, well thats a pretty different situation than the guy who only got a few V100 cb's and is waiting on one more response. the advice from the former to the latter is likely not that helpful.

ETA: sorry to sound frustrated, i know you're trying to help. but i'm just trying to say that people with different GPAs need to have different gameplans, and false hope is not a good thing to offer, even if you don't realize thats what you're giving.

[Anonymous User]

Cause i've mass mailed pretty much every firm in NY with nothing to come from it.

Yep. NY mass mailing is a hard fail right now, but I also don't have a 3.5 GPA. Maybe it works for someone with that.

[Anonymous User]

Any news on other Michigan firms besides those listed above? Any post-cb movement from Bodman, Schiff, or Jaffe? Did anyone do a cb at Young Basile?

[Anonymous User]

Man the special snowflake syndrome here is annoying as fuck. Yes you did well barely above median. Congrats. Maybe you interview well or maybe you have something on your resume or maybe you got lucky or maybe all of the above. But for the love of god, let's not tell our classmates who struck out that it was probably their personality or interviewing ability when you have no fucking idea whether or not that's true.

Also: Edwards wildmen Chicago, Cleary dc, Steptoe dc, Kong and spalding dc, and Paul Weiss dc have given offers.

THANK YOU.