Top 10% at GULC. Chances at DC firms?

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Top 10% at GULC. Chances at DC firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:59 am

Realizing that DC is the most competitive market. It is nonetheless where I would like to practice. My GPA is 3.68 (top 10%) at GULC. What are impressions of my chances at DC firms, and how heavily would you recommend bidding on DC?

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Re: Top 10% at GULC. Chances at DC firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:Realizing that DC is the most competitive market. It is nonetheless where I would like to practice. My GPA is 3.68 (top 10%) at GULC. What are impressions of my chances at DC firms, and how heavily would you recommend bidding on DC?


tagging because I am 3.65 (top 10% for my section as well) - made a post about this before ranking data came out, the consensus was grades are likely fine for a lot of DC firms, but the amount of screeners you will get is really impacted by bidding DC due to popularity, so safe to bid a mix of NYC/DC as I plan to.

What my question now is, and may be better served for you as well, is which firms are top 10% at Georgetown looking good for in DC? Outside of A&P, Covington, W&C, Wilmer (?) are there firms that may be too selective and worth avoiding?

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Re: Top 10% at GULC. Chances at DC firms?

Postby ninereal » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Realizing that DC is the most competitive market. It is nonetheless where I would like to practice. My GPA is 3.68 (top 10%) at GULC. What are impressions of my chances at DC firms, and how heavily would you recommend bidding on DC?


tagging because I am 3.65 (top 10% for my section as well) - made a post about this before ranking data came out, the consensus was grades are likely fine for a lot of DC firms, but the amount of screeners you will get is really impacted by bidding DC due to popularity, so safe to bid a mix of NYC/DC as I plan to.

What my question now is, and may be better served for you as well, is which firms are top 10% at Georgetown looking good for in DC? Outside of A&P, Covington, W&C, Wilmer (?) are there firms that may be too selective and worth avoiding?


By W&C do you mean White & Case, or Williams & Connolly? Because the latter probably falls into the too-selective category.

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Re: Top 10% at GULC. Chances at DC firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:32 pm

ninereal wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Realizing that DC is the most competitive market. It is nonetheless where I would like to practice. My GPA is 3.68 (top 10%) at GULC. What are impressions of my chances at DC firms, and how heavily would you recommend bidding on DC?


tagging because I am 3.65 (top 10% for my section as well) - made a post about this before ranking data came out, the consensus was grades are likely fine for a lot of DC firms, but the amount of screeners you will get is really impacted by bidding DC due to popularity, so safe to bid a mix of NYC/DC as I plan to.

What my question now is, and may be better served for you as well, is which firms are top 10% at Georgetown looking good for in DC? Outside of A&P, Covington, W&C, Wilmer (?) are there firms that may be too selective and worth avoiding?


By W&C do you mean White & Case, or Williams & Connolly? Because the latter probably falls into the too-selective category.


Williams & Connolly, sorry for any confusion there. Any others to add to the list though? - Anon #2

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Re: Top 10% at GULC. Chances at DC firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:26 pm

OP here. Any more thoughts from anyone? Is it really not worth bidding on A&P, Covington, and WilmerHale with a 3.68 (top 10%) at GULC?

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Re: Top 10% at GULC. Chances at DC firms?

Postby sambeber » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:33 pm

I think it's worth bidding all of those firms. I know people who summered at each of them and I think top 10% at GULC is competitive. Obviously, it's impossible to know where in the top 10% a given GPA is (unless you get one of the letters), so this sort of thing is hard to predict, but I know for a fact you don't need a 4.0 at any of those firms. At that level, other things can help, including main journal, moot court, and law fellow, not to mention personality and fit.

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Re: Top 10% at GULC. Chances at DC firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:37 pm

sambeber wrote:I think it's worth bidding all of those firms. I know people who summered at each of them and I think top 10% at GULC is competitive. Obviously, it's impossible to know where in the top 10% a given GPA is (unless you get one of the letters), so this sort of thing is hard to predict, but I know for a fact you don't need a 4.0 at any of those firms. At that level, other things can help, including main journal, moot court, and law fellow, not to mention personality and fit.


Cool. Thanks for your input. By the way, what do you mean by "one of the letters"?

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Re: Top 10% at GULC. Chances at DC firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Any more thoughts from anyone? Is it really not worth bidding on A&P, Covington, and WilmerHale with a 3.68 (top 10%) at GULC?


If you're really just at the threshold of 10% then there are somewhere between 50-60 people with better grades who all want those spots. Those firms won't even take 1/3 of that number from GULC and I'm guessing that group are among the most desirable for GULC students. You might have a shot if you have something else that is standout other than just your grades.

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Re: Top 10% at GULC. Chances at DC firms?

Postby sambeber » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
sambeber wrote:I think it's worth bidding all of those firms. I know people who summered at each of them and I think top 10% at GULC is competitive. Obviously, it's impossible to know where in the top 10% a given GPA is (unless you get one of the letters), so this sort of thing is hard to predict, but I know for a fact you don't need a 4.0 at any of those firms. At that level, other things can help, including main journal, moot court, and law fellow, not to mention personality and fit.


Cool. Thanks for your input. By the way, what do you mean by "one of the letters"?


If you're in the top 5%, you get a letter in the mail telling you what percent you're actually in, not just the top 10% cutoff.

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Re: Top 10% at GULC. Chances at DC firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Any more thoughts from anyone? Is it really not worth bidding on A&P, Covington, and WilmerHale with a 3.68 (top 10%) at GULC?


If you're really just at the threshold of 10% then there are somewhere between 50-60 people with better grades who all want those spots. Those firms won't even take 1/3 of that number from GULC and I'm guessing that group are among the most desirable for GULC students. You might have a shot if you have something else that is standout other than just your grades.


In my section, Top 10% starts at 3.65, so I'm .03 above the threshold. I'll also be a Law Fellow. We haven't gotten journal results yet.

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Re: Top 10% at GULC. Chances at DC firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:41 pm

sambeber wrote:
If you're in the top 5%, you get a letter in the mail telling you what percent you're actually in, not just the top 10% cutoff.


No letter for me, alas.

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Re: Top 10% at GULC. Chances at DC firms?

Postby sambeber » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Any more thoughts from anyone? Is it really not worth bidding on A&P, Covington, and WilmerHale with a 3.68 (top 10%) at GULC?


If you're really just at the threshold of 10% then there are somewhere between 50-60 people with better grades who all want those spots. Those firms won't even take 1/3 of that number from GULC and I'm guessing that group are among the most desirable for GULC students. You might have a shot if you have something else that is standout other than just your grades.


This is just flat out wrong in at least two different ways. First, not everyone in the top 10% wants to be in DC (or wants to be at a large firm, for that matter) so you're not competing with 50-60 people. Second, interview slots are a lottery. So if Covington, for instance, has 20 interview spots, you're competing with 19 others, at most, once you get an interview. Finally, once you're past a certain GPA threshold, relative differences matter quite a bit less, so "50-60 people with better grades" is somewhat of a straw man.

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Re: Top 10% at GULC. Chances at DC firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:48 pm

sambeber wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Any more thoughts from anyone? Is it really not worth bidding on A&P, Covington, and WilmerHale with a 3.68 (top 10%) at GULC?


If you're really just at the threshold of 10% then there are somewhere between 50-60 people with better grades who all want those spots. Those firms won't even take 1/3 of that number from GULC and I'm guessing that group are among the most desirable for GULC students. You might have a shot if you have something else that is standout other than just your grades.


This is just flat out wrong in at least two different ways. First, not everyone in the top 10% wants to be in DC (or wants to be at a large firm, for that matter) so you're not competing with 50-60 people. Second, interview slots are a lottery. So if Covington, for instance, has 20 interview spots, you're competing with 19 others, at most, once you get an interview. Finally, once you're past a certain GPA threshold, relative differences matter quite a bit less, so "50-60 people with better grades" is somewhat of a straw man.


Everyone knows that lottery doesn't mean anything when it comes to OCI since you can easily get screeners outside of the bidding process when you're in the top 5-10% at a T14. I can't really guess how many people at GULC really want to work in DC but I would imagine the % is high and tends to be higher at the top of the class. Agreed that threshold matters more, but that's why I said OP would need something else that was standout to compete

Also estimating that A&P, Covington, and Wilmer take 20 GULC students is probably overly generous on odds.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Top 10% at GULC. Chances at DC firms?

Postby sambeber » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
sambeber wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Any more thoughts from anyone? Is it really not worth bidding on A&P, Covington, and WilmerHale with a 3.68 (top 10%) at GULC?


If you're really just at the threshold of 10% then there are somewhere between 50-60 people with better grades who all want those spots. Those firms won't even take 1/3 of that number from GULC and I'm guessing that group are among the most desirable for GULC students. You might have a shot if you have something else that is standout other than just your grades.


This is just flat out wrong in at least two different ways. First, not everyone in the top 10% wants to be in DC (or wants to be at a large firm, for that matter) so you're not competing with 50-60 people. Second, interview slots are a lottery. So if Covington, for instance, has 20 interview spots, you're competing with 19 others, at most, once you get an interview. Finally, once you're past a certain GPA threshold, relative differences matter quite a bit less, so "50-60 people with better grades" is somewhat of a straw man.


Everyone knows that lottery doesn't mean anything when it comes to OCI since you can easily get screeners outside of the bidding process when you're in the top 5-10% at a T14. I can't really guess how many people at GULC really want to work in DC but I would imagine the % is high and tends to be higher at the top of the class.


Do you go to Georgetown? Do you know what you're talking about at all?

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Re: Top 10% at GULC. Chances at DC firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
sambeber wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Any more thoughts from anyone? Is it really not worth bidding on A&P, Covington, and WilmerHale with a 3.68 (top 10%) at GULC?


If you're really just at the threshold of 10% then there are somewhere between 50-60 people with better grades who all want those spots. Those firms won't even take 1/3 of that number from GULC and I'm guessing that group are among the most desirable for GULC students. You might have a shot if you have something else that is standout other than just your grades.


This is just flat out wrong in at least two different ways. First, not everyone in the top 10% wants to be in DC (or wants to be at a large firm, for that matter) so you're not competing with 50-60 people. Second, interview slots are a lottery. So if Covington, for instance, has 20 interview spots, you're competing with 19 others, at most, once you get an interview. Finally, once you're past a certain GPA threshold, relative differences matter quite a bit less, so "50-60 people with better grades" is somewhat of a straw man.


Everyone knows that lottery doesn't mean anything when it comes to OCI since you can easily get screeners outside of the bidding process when you're in the top 5-10% at a T14. I can't really guess how many people at GULC really want to work in DC but I would imagine the % is high and tends to be higher at the top of the class. Agreed that threshold matters more, but that's why I said OP would need something else that was standout to compete

Also estimating that A&P, Covington, and Wilmer take 20 GULC students is probably overly generous on odds.


The bottom line is that top 10% has a shot at these firms. It's by no means guaranteed (and might need closer to top 5% for Covington and Wilmer) but these guys are competitive.

EDIT: If you are dead set on any of these firms I'd bid them pretty high. I remember bidding A&P and Wilmer relatively high (in my top 15 IIRC) and didn't get an interview. I then had no luck with emailing them to set up a screener (I was also top 10%). Same thing happened to my friend who was top 5%.

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Re: Top 10% at GULC. Chances at DC firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:58 pm

A little more advice.

While you are competitive at most of the top DC firms, I wouldn't stack your top 10 with them. You've got great grades, but you don't want to end up in a situation where the vast majority of your interviews are with the super selective DC firms. Pick a couple that you like and rank them very highly, then maybe put a couple more in 8-20 (they'll get your resume). Email the rest and see if they'll give you a screener outside the lottery. You'll be able to snag a lot of extra interviews outside of the lottery by spamming your resume via email.

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Re: Top 10% at GULC. Chances at DC firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:12 pm

I graduated from GULC and had many friends land DC biglaw with top third grades. My friends and I didn't sit around chatting about grades, but this was my general impression. Top third grades will get you in the door for many firms (obviously not W&C and such) and a good personality will seal the deal. You're competitive for many DC V30 offices.

GULC gets a bad rep on this board, but all of my close friends had jobs before graduation, save for a few who were interested in public interest, since those positions often don't hire from summer programs.




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