Zero ties to secondary markets - where to mass mail?

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Anonymous User
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Zero ties to secondary markets - where to mass mail?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:26 pm

Median at M, so I realize I won't be getting a job at OCI. But every mass mail thread says 'mass mail any secondary market you have ties too', and I only have ties to two major markets: NYC and Chicago. As in I grew up living in Chicago and Manhattan and that's it. So should I still be mass mailing smaller markets or is this just going to kind of screw me?

mr.hands
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Re: Zero ties to secondary markets - where to mass mail?

Postby mr.hands » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Median at M, so I realize I won't be getting a job at OCI. But every mass mail thread says 'mass mail any secondary market you have ties too', and I only have ties to two major markets: NYC and Chicago. As in I grew up living in Chicago and Manhattan and that's it. So should I still be mass mailing smaller markets or is this just going to kind of screw me?


1. I don't think your shot at OCI is that bad. You're in the game. Why so pessimistic?
2. Mail smaller firms in Chicago and NYC and hit hard on the ties early in your cover letters.
3. Where did you go to undergrad? Do you have family concentrated in another city (even if its a city you didn't grow up in)?

edit: boo autocorrect

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Re: Zero ties to secondary markets - where to mass mail?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:41 pm

Many firms in the smaller Midwestern cities seem to have a decent number of people with Chicago roots who wanted to live in a smaller, more family-friendly environment - since you're at Michigan, it seems like you would have decent chances if you mail to any of the regional cities in the Midwest you're interested in (St. Louis, Milwaukee, Columbus, Minneapolis, etc.) and emphasize a desire to stay in the region but disinterest in returning to Chicago. A lot of the larger firms in those cities seem willing to go pretty deep into the class at a place like Michigan if they think someone actually wants to be in the Midwest.

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Re: Zero ties to secondary markets - where to mass mail?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:50 pm

mr.hands wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Median at M, so I realize I won't be getting a job at OCI. But every mass mail thread says 'mass mail any secondary market you have ties too', and I only have ties to two major markets: NYC and Chicago. As in I grew up living in Chicago and Manhattan and that's it. So should I still be mass mailing smaller markets or is this just going to kind of screw me?


1. I don't think your shot at OCI is that bad. You're in the game. Why so pessimistic?
2. Mail smaller firms in Chicago and NYC and hit hard on the ties early in your cover letters.
3. Where did you go to undergrad? Do you have family concentrated in another city (even if its a city you didn't grow up in)?

edit: boo autocorrect


1. I think many people on this board would disagree with you, they're why I'm pessimistic. Still giving it a go though.

2. Ok thanks, I just feel like, at least for NY, ties won't separate me out of the thousands of other letters they will get.

3. Undergrad in same major markets. Family all in the same major markets. And Canada. I'm too urban for my own good.

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: Zero ties to secondary markets - where to mass mail?

Postby crumpetsandtea » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Median at M, so I realize I won't be getting a job at OCI. But every mass mail thread says 'mass mail any secondary market you have ties too', and I only have ties to two major markets: NYC and Chicago. As in I grew up living in Chicago and Manhattan and that's it. So should I still be mass mailing smaller markets or is this just going to kind of screw me?

Is M Michigan? Do median students at Michigan really strike out? That surprises me.

You can massmail smaller firms in Chi/NY that aren't going to your OCI and are more local firms. Also try midwest cities like Milwaukee, Madison, Indianapolis, Minneapolis, STL. You can say that you grew up in Chicago and want to stay in the MW. Ditto with like...Jersey, Delaware, or Buffalo/Albany (do they have large legal markets? IDK anything about NY)

Disclaimer: I'm a rising 2L and am going through OCI myself rn, so this is just general speculation. Hopefully someone else will have better advice for you.

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Re: Zero ties to secondary markets - where to mass mail?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:08 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:Is M Michigan? Do median students at Michigan really strike out? That surprises me.

:shock: can't tell if srs

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stillwater
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Re: Zero ties to secondary markets - where to mass mail?

Postby stillwater » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:Is M Michigan? Do median students at Michigan really strike out? That surprises me.

:shock: can't tell if srs


i heard M is a festering TTT. people in the know get on that MSU bandwagon

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: Zero ties to secondary markets - where to mass mail?

Postby crumpetsandtea » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:Is M Michigan? Do median students at Michigan really strike out? That surprises me.

:shock: can't tell if srs

Srs. I feel so dumb but I can't even tell what you're making fun of me for rn. Is it not Michigan?

mr.hands
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Re: Zero ties to secondary markets - where to mass mail?

Postby mr.hands » Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:06 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:Is M Michigan? Do median students at Michigan really strike out? That surprises me.

:shock: can't tell if srs

Srs. I feel so dumb but I can't even tell what you're making fun of me for rn. Is it not Michigan?


In my post, I wasn't suggesting that you won't strike out. I was just saying that you're in the game. I'm a very pessimistic person but even I acknowledge that you're competitive for biglaw. You've got a shot.

You may not be interested in Detroit biglaw, but i hear they're big on Michigan grads. That's within reach at median.

(what is median at Michigan btw? 3.3?)

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Re: Zero ties to secondary markets - where to mass mail?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:18 pm

mr.hands wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:Is M Michigan? Do median students at Michigan really strike out? That surprises me.

:shock: can't tell if srs

Srs. I feel so dumb but I can't even tell what you're making fun of me for rn. Is it not Michigan?


In my post, I wasn't suggesting that you won't strike out. I was just saying that you're in the game. I'm a very pessimistic person but even I acknowledge that you're competitive for biglaw. You've got a shot.

You may not be interested in Detroit biglaw, but i hear they're big on Michigan grads. That's within reach at median.

(what is median at Michigan btw? 3.3?)


Ok. Well I wish I was a little more optimistic but most people tell me the chances are very very slim.

Unfortunately, going to UM is not good enough for Detroit, surprisingly. They want ties. So thats not gonna work.

Median is ~3.2

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BuckinghamB
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Re: Zero ties to secondary markets - where to mass mail?

Postby BuckinghamB » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:04 pm

.
Last edited by BuckinghamB on Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: Zero ties to secondary markets - where to mass mail?

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:01 am

Just tell them about your finance that lives in their city.

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UVAIce
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Re: Zero ties to secondary markets - where to mass mail?

Postby UVAIce » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:13 am

Desert Fox wrote:Just tell them about your finance that lives in their city.


I have a finance in every major market; that's just how I bank.

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Re: Zero ties to secondary markets - where to mass mail?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:32 am

Seems like the greater problem is picking a random city like Milwaukee that I've never been to, pretending I have a fiancé, and pretending she lives there, just to get a job offer from a place I don't want to work or live. There's got to be a better solution to this.

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Lwoods
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Re: Zero ties to secondary markets - where to mass mail?

Postby Lwoods » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:58 am

"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." -Mark Twain

Where do you want to live? Why do you want to live there?

The reason employers in secondary markets want to see ties is because they're hesitant to waste time and money on the best candidates who are spamming every firm of a certain calibre in the country. But if you genuinely want to work in a certain secondary market, make the honest pitch as to why.

Mass mail, but also set up trips to those cities and reach out to M alumni (if you can find those who also went to your undergrad, that can be a nice connection point), telling them the dates you'll be in town.

NY and Chicago are saturated markets, but you're by no means a bad job candidate based on what you posted here. If you want to go to one of those cities, mass mail that city as well as nearby suburbs (if you like). I would set up trips, first, though, so you can include those dates in your cover letter and hopefully get pre-OCI screeners.

For Michigan (and other secondary market) firms at OCI, just be sure that you submit a resume with ONLY your school address listed. It never hurts to get ahead in the game and mass mail, but don't go into OCI expecting to strike out. It's always a possibility, but you're at a top school with okay grades. You are, stats-wise, in a much better spot than most other law students. Think of other selling points, too. Are you on a journal and/or moot court? Do you have prior work experience? Are you or have you been involved in any activity that either showcases your personality or is something people won't see on many other resumes?

Best of luck!

Anonymous User
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Re: Zero ties to secondary markets - where to mass mail?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:19 am

Not OP, but is the fake fiance a real thing that people use? Can it ever hurt them? Will the firm remember, or tell you to bring your fiance to events. I do know women in most major markets who would go with me and pretend to be my fiance, but then I'm kind of at their beckon's call. Also, wouldn't this be a 4.4 (lying to 3rd parties) or 8.4 MPRE violation?

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: Zero ties to secondary markets - where to mass mail?

Postby crumpetsandtea » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:Not OP, but is the fake fiance a real thing that people use? Can it ever hurt them? Will the firm remember, or tell you to bring your fiance to events. I do know women in most major markets who would go with me and pretend to be my fiance, but then I'm kind of at their beckon's call. Also, wouldn't this be a 4.4 (lying to 3rd parties) or 8.4 MPRE violation?

..............lol yeah don't make up a fake fiancee just so you have ties to a secondary market.

09042014
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Re: Zero ties to secondary markets - where to mass mail?

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:Seems like the greater problem is picking a random city like Milwaukee that I've never been to, pretending I have a fiancé, and pretending she lives there, just to get a job offer from a place I don't want to work or live. There's got to be a better solution to this.


Well you aren't going to be honest in the interview anyway.

First, if Michigan's OCI bidding is like Northwestern's, if you bid correctly, you can get a ton of interviews all over the place in random secondary markets by bidding on them after the point you'd no longer get primary market interviews. So if the average person at Mich is only getting 14 interviews, after bid slot 20, stop putting anything in NYC/CHI/CA and start putting Texas, Wisc. Minn, Oh, IN, etc. etc.

You just need a decent reason.

I got an offer in Madison despite my first trip into town being the interview. But I talked about how much I loved fishing in Hayward, WI, and how I love midwestern medium sized towns.

I got a callback in Indianapolis for the same thing. I mentioned I had family in Chesterton, and loved the midwest.

You just need to credibly say you wanna be there. But that's pretty hard. I'd really just lie. Minneapolis? Your family moved to Eau Claire wisconsin after you went to college and you wanna be around them. Texas? Your finance's grew up there and wants to return.

If you aren't lying you are not trying hard enough.

That said, median at Mich should not be "very very rare" unless it's way shittier than Northwestern, which I kinda doubt.




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