Columbia Law School EIP 2013

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Other T6 student who is struggling dropping in here. I am the type of person you describe (or so I like to think) -- sane but hard-working, and I'm friendly but I do not BS or pass the buck. However, it seems that people who it would be terrible to work with (and I know, from forced group work) are the ones raking in the callbacks and offers. Difference? Them = white guy, me = asian female. Honestly, do the stereotypes of 'quiet' asian women affect your thinking at all? in the sense that they might have to overcompensate by being extra loud or something? Because I'm starting to think that 'good interviewing' means tall and loud.


Just to chime in --- the people who are struggling all seem to point to some external factor (bad luck, Asian, quiet, whatever). Here's the thing: EIP is a closed system. There are 400 CLS students (or, with transfers, maybe more like 800) interviewing with firms. Interviewers get a certain number of callbacks to give to the people they interview. The math is pretty simple. If you didn't get a callback, the interviewer thought too many people were better than you. Maybe its your grades, maybe its your resume, maybe its your interview, or maybe it does have something to do with luck (the interviewer was in a shitty mood right before you went in). In the end, luck isn't the difference between getting 10 CBs and getting 2. There are also plenty of quiet, introverted people who are successful in big law.

If I were struggling, I'd think about what I could do differently, not the impact of stereotypes / luck.


Well, that's a circular argument... It was easy to convince yourself, wasn't it?

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Other T6 student who is struggling dropping in here. I am the type of person you describe (or so I like to think) -- sane but hard-working, and I'm friendly but I do not BS or pass the buck. However, it seems that people who it would be terrible to work with (and I know, from forced group work) are the ones raking in the callbacks and offers. Difference? Them = white guy, me = asian female. Honestly, do the stereotypes of 'quiet' asian women affect your thinking at all? in the sense that they might have to overcompensate by being extra loud or something? Because I'm starting to think that 'good interviewing' means tall and loud.


Just to chime in --- the people who are struggling all seem to point to some external factor (bad luck, Asian, quiet, whatever). Here's the thing: EIP is a closed system. There are 400 CLS students (or, with transfers, maybe more like 800) interviewing with firms. Interviewers get a certain number of callbacks to give to the people they interview. The math is pretty simple. If you didn't get a callback, the interviewer thought too many people were better than you. Maybe its your grades, maybe its your resume, maybe its your interview, or maybe it does have something to do with luck (the interviewer was in a shitty mood right before you went in). In the end, luck isn't the difference between getting 10 CBs and getting 2. There are also plenty of quiet, introverted people who are successful in big law.

If I were struggling, I'd think about what I could do differently, not the impact of stereotypes / luck.


Going to call you out on this. While I agree that most people can and should try to improve their interviewing (and tend to overestimate their interviewing ability), if you really, seriously think that race (or gender) doesn't affect the process, well...then you're probably not a minority. And unless you're a truly outstanding interviewer who can connect with everyone (and some people are), luck absolutely affects the screening process. But I agree that since you can't control luck, may as well try to improve your interviewing instead.

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:54 pm

In response to one point above, most law firms have totally even gender splits for SAs.

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Other T6 student who is struggling dropping in here. I am the type of person you describe (or so I like to think) -- sane but hard-working, and I'm friendly but I do not BS or pass the buck. However, it seems that people who it would be terrible to work with (and I know, from forced group work) are the ones raking in the callbacks and offers. Difference? Them = white guy, me = asian female. Honestly, do the stereotypes of 'quiet' asian women affect your thinking at all? in the sense that they might have to overcompensate by being extra loud or something? Because I'm starting to think that 'good interviewing' means tall and loud.


Just to chime in --- the people who are struggling all seem to point to some external factor (bad luck, Asian, quiet, whatever). Here's the thing: EIP is a closed system. There are 400 CLS students (or, with transfers, maybe more like 800) interviewing with firms. Interviewers get a certain number of callbacks to give to the people they interview. The math is pretty simple. If you didn't get a callback, the interviewer thought too many people were better than you. Maybe its your grades, maybe its your resume, maybe its your interview, or maybe it does have something to do with luck (the interviewer was in a shitty mood right before you went in). In the end, luck isn't the difference between getting 10 CBs and getting 2. There are also plenty of quiet, introverted people who are successful in big law.

If I were struggling, I'd think about what I could do differently, not the impact of stereotypes / luck.


You really think I haven't tried to improve my interviewing? Of course I have. I still believe that the tall white dudes have an inherent advantage over me though, even if I am smarter and more outgoing outside of the interview process. Your comment totally disregards that and sounds like "pull yourself up by the bootstraps."

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Other T6 student who is struggling dropping in here. I am the type of person you describe (or so I like to think) -- sane but hard-working, and I'm friendly but I do not BS or pass the buck. However, it seems that people who it would be terrible to work with (and I know, from forced group work) are the ones raking in the callbacks and offers. Difference? Them = white guy, me = asian female. Honestly, do the stereotypes of 'quiet' asian women affect your thinking at all? in the sense that they might have to overcompensate by being extra loud or something? Because I'm starting to think that 'good interviewing' means tall and loud.


Just to chime in --- the people who are struggling all seem to point to some external factor (bad luck, Asian, quiet, whatever). Here's the thing: EIP is a closed system. There are 400 CLS students (or, with transfers, maybe more like 800) interviewing with firms. Interviewers get a certain number of callbacks to give to the people they interview. The math is pretty simple. If you didn't get a callback, the interviewer thought too many people were better than you. Maybe its your grades, maybe its your resume, maybe its your interview, or maybe it does have something to do with luck (the interviewer was in a shitty mood right before you went in). In the end, luck isn't the difference between getting 10 CBs and getting 2. There are also plenty of quiet, introverted people who are successful in big law.

If I were struggling, I'd think about what I could do differently, not the impact of stereotypes / luck.


You really think I haven't tried to improve my interviewing? Of course I have. I still believe that the tall white dudes have an inherent advantage over me though, even if I am smarter and more outgoing outside of the interview process. Your comment totally disregards that and sounds like "pull yourself up by the bootstraps."


The thing is that "tall white dudes" have most likely spent a lifetime being at the top of the social hierarchy, so they'll probably have acquired a sense of confidence and ease that minorities and women often lack in some way. It's probably not the interviewers explicitly discriminating in favour of these people, but it still reflects the obvious tilted playing field in society (and not just in the narrow world of OCI).

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Other T6 student who is struggling dropping in here. I am the type of person you describe (or so I like to think) -- sane but hard-working, and I'm friendly but I do not BS or pass the buck. However, it seems that people who it would be terrible to work with (and I know, from forced group work) are the ones raking in the callbacks and offers. Difference? Them = white guy, me = asian female. Honestly, do the stereotypes of 'quiet' asian women affect your thinking at all? in the sense that they might have to overcompensate by being extra loud or something? Because I'm starting to think that 'good interviewing' means tall and loud.


Just to chime in --- the people who are struggling all seem to point to some external factor (bad luck, Asian, quiet, whatever). Here's the thing: EIP is a closed system. There are 400 CLS students (or, with transfers, maybe more like 800) interviewing with firms. Interviewers get a certain number of callbacks to give to the people they interview. The math is pretty simple. If you didn't get a callback, the interviewer thought too many people were better than you. Maybe its your grades, maybe its your resume, maybe its your interview, or maybe it does have something to do with luck (the interviewer was in a shitty mood right before you went in). In the end, luck isn't the difference between getting 10 CBs and getting 2. There are also plenty of quiet, introverted people who are successful in big law.

If I were struggling, I'd think about what I could do differently, not the impact of stereotypes / luck.


You really think I haven't tried to improve my interviewing? Of course I have. I still believe that the tall white dudes have an inherent advantage over me though, even if I am smarter and more outgoing outside of the interview process. Your comment totally disregards that and sounds like "pull yourself up by the bootstraps."


The thing is that "tall white dudes" have most likely spent a lifetime being at the top of the social hierarchy, so they'll probably have acquired a sense of confidence and ease that minorities and women often lack in some way. It's probably not the interviewers explicitly discriminating in favour of these people, but it still reflects the obvious tilted playing field in society (and not just in the narrow world of OCI).


No doubt. It just sucks to feel that it affects my professional life (and will continue to) so much.

the personal is political professional

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:59 pm

I will say that the majority of my screener interviewers have NOT been tall, white men. In fact, the majority of my screener interviewers weren't white.

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:35 pm

Any offers today? I feel like we've been seeing a lot of the same big V10 to V20 firms mentioned here, not too muich else in terms of offers.

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby TheRedMamba » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: tall white dudes have an inherent advantage over me though, even if I am smarter and more outgoing outside of the interview process.



:roll:

Anonymous User
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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: tall white dudes have an inherent advantage over me though, even if I am smarter and more outgoing outside of the interview process.



:roll:


thanks for your thoughtful, responsive comment that selectively quotes to make me sound like a stuck-up aspie. I'm not comparing my results to generic "white dudes" btw.. but real people I know.

this is not to say that interviewing skills can't be improved and lead to better results though. of course they can.

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
thanks for your thoughtful, responsive comment that selectively quotes to make me sound like a stuck-up aspie. I'm not comparing my results to generic "white dudes" btw.. but real people I know.


I think you sound the same quoted "selectively" or not.

I'm surprised you lack the interviewing confidence of your lopsided-playing-field-exploiting-tall-white-male-peers though...you did just claim to be smarter and more out going than people you know, and know well enough to know where they stand with interviews/offers etc. Bold.

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:50 pm

Can you guys please stop fighting about this....while some venting is to be expected, this thread is really to help us Columbia students find out useful information and help manage our stress a bit.

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
thanks for your thoughtful, responsive comment that selectively quotes to make me sound like a stuck-up aspie. I'm not comparing my results to generic "white dudes" btw.. but real people I know.


I think you sound the same quoted "selectively" or not.

I'm surprised you lack the interviewing confidence of your lopsided-playing-field-exploiting-tall-white-male-peers though...you did just claim to be smarter and more out going than people you know, and know well enough to know where they stand with interviews/offers etc. Bold.


I know because they were talking about it in the hotel hallways or posted about it on facebook.

I'm going to disengage now.

Anonymous User
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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
thanks for your thoughtful, responsive comment that selectively quotes to make me sound like a stuck-up aspie. I'm not comparing my results to generic "white dudes" btw.. but real people I know.


I think you sound the same quoted "selectively" or not.

I'm surprised you lack the interviewing confidence of your lopsided-playing-field-exploiting-tall-white-male-peers though...you did just claim to be smarter and more out going than people you know, and know well enough to know where they stand with interviews/offers etc. Bold.


I know because they were talking about it in the hotel hallways or posted about it on facebook.

I'm going to disengage now.


I'm still wondering how and when you concluded you were smarter and more out going than them? Maybe you don't know them, or yourself, as well as you thought. Or maybe you don't think they are outgoing because you didn't see them at any of the firm events held exclusively to recruit minority candidates?

Maybe you shouldn't be making jokes about asperger syndrome, I don't know how much interviewers like poking fun at disorders.


And for the poster that suggested we stop fighting. You're right. And for that reason I have provided an incredibly useful link for everyone coping with the stress of not having received an offer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlJdPOkMa9k

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:33 pm

Any Cadwalader offers?

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:48 am

Any offers from Weil?

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:36 am

Anyone with a Ropes NY CB last week hear?

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:12 am

I have a good friend who got an offer from Weil. Still no word on Chadbourne or Cadwalader?

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:21 am

Any Paul Hastings offer news after the super interview days T/Th last week?

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:Any Paul Hastings offer news after the super interview days T/Th last week?

+1

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:35 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any Paul Hastings offer news after the super interview days T/Th last week?

+1

I think the recruiter said they were having another super interview day today. Since there has been no word of offers post super interview days last week, maybe they're waiting to review all candidates after today??

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:37 am

Pillsbury email ding (post-CB).

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:Pillsbury email ding (post-CB).


Sorry to hear that... when did you get the email and when was your CB?

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Pillsbury email ding (post-CB).


Sorry to hear that... when did you get the email and when was your CB?

CB was Thursday, got the email this morning. The letter was dated yesterday so I'm guessing that's when the committee met.

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I have a good friend who got an offer from Weil. Still no word on Chadbourne or Cadwalader?

Still waiting on Cadwalader here. Last year it seems like they gave out some offers really slowly to protect their yield...hopefully they're not as slow this year.




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