Columbia Law School EIP 2013

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone know if Boeis, WLRK, Sullcrom, and Cravath are worth bids with a 3.6-3.7? Thanks in advance.


I'm not sure WLRK and Boies are worth a bid in any event—at least last year they didn't fill up and thus could probably be picked up after bidding. At the very most, using one of your last bids would probably get you an screener.

-B.


Boeis had 63 bids for 20 interviews per the CSO sheet so I'm pretty sure we have to rank it pretty high. Where did you get your info?

e: Oh you may be referring to non-litigation interviews. Boeis is known for its strong litigation practice and so you have to bid its main office pretty high.

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
I'm not sure WLRK and Boies are worth a bid in any event—at least last year they didn't fill up and thus could probably be picked up after bidding. At the very most, using one of your last bids would probably get you an screener.

-B.


I think this is true for WLRK, but Boies was very overbid last year. The 'corporate group' slot was underbid, but I think you'd need to rank Boies very high otherwise to get a screen.

-Ted "Theodore" Logan

:lol: scooped

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Oh you may be referring to non-litigation interviews. Boeis is known for its strong litigation practice and so you have to bid its main office pretty high.


Yep, I was looking at the wrong Boeis. I should probably learn to read a spreadsheet before I make my bid list. :?

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:51 pm

So STB and Cleary were around 90% Stone offers. I assume this means someone slightly above Stone doesn't have much of a chance. Is there a soft cut off above Stone, maybe around a 3.5 or so? Same question for Cravath and S&C, which both came in around 97% Stone offers.

--Garth Algar

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So STB and Cleary were around 90% Stone offers. I assume this means someone slightly above Stone doesn't have much of a chance. Is there a soft cut off above Stone, maybe around a 3.5 or so? Same question for Cravath and S&C, which both came in around 97% Stone offers.

--Garth Algar


I imagine Cleary and STB are worth bids slightly above Stone. If I happen to secure the proper grade in Con Law, then I think I'll likely bid both at that rank.

- Hodor

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:34 am

Garth: In general, if you make Stone, everything in NYC is within reach except for Cravath, Sullcrom, Wachtell, and Boies which require high Stone.

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:05 pm

Have we decided where the median fell? Where should someone at a 3.33 be realistically looking?

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Have we decided where the median fell? Where should someone at a 3.33 be realistically looking?


I am not sure we can know/will ever know. I think a 3.33 is probably a touch above median, but I don't know if a good bidlist would differ from one at median.

I'd look at the Stone report and try to avoid grade selective firms. There are many good firms with a Stone percentage below 50, so start by making sure that you get the firms you need ranked high and maybe flesh out into firms that may be more grade selective from there.

-Ted "Theodore" Logan

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Have we decided where the median fell? Where should someone at a 3.33 be realistically looking?


I am not sure we can know/will ever know. I think a 3.33 is probably a touch above median, but I don't know if a good bidlist would differ from one at median.

I'd look at the Stone report and try to avoid grade selective firms. There are many good firms with a Stone percentage below 50, so start by making sure that you get the firms you need ranked high and maybe flesh out into firms that may be more grade selective from there.

-Ted "Theodore" Logan



Here's a good thread from a few years back that has a bunch of information on bidlists for that grade range:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=157843

- Roger Sterling

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:26 am

Hm, I seem to be having trouble accessing the Offers by Honors report on Symplicity. It's trying to get me to complete a summer work eval for an internship that I haven't completed before it'll allow me onto the OCI page where that report lives (I suppose I could always just fill out the eval to avoid the redirect, but a quicker/easier workaround would be nice). Is anyone else having a similar problem?

-Denny Crane

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:Hm, I seem to be having trouble accessing the Offers by Honors report on Symplicity. It's trying to get me to complete a summer work eval for an internship that I haven't completed before it'll allow me onto the OCI page where that report lives (I suppose I could always just fill out the eval to avoid the redirect, but a quicker/easier workaround would be nice). Is anyone else having a similar problem?

-Denny Crane


I think you just need to fill out the report. It's pretty annoying. I now understand why summer evaluations for 1L jobs are less than ideal.

-Ted "Theodore" Logan

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hm, I seem to be having trouble accessing the Offers by Honors report on Symplicity. It's trying to get me to complete a summer work eval for an internship that I haven't completed before it'll allow me onto the OCI page where that report lives (I suppose I could always just fill out the eval to avoid the redirect, but a quicker/easier workaround would be nice). Is anyone else having a similar problem?

-Denny Crane


I think you just need to fill out the report. It's pretty annoying. I now understand why summer evaluations for 1L jobs are less than ideal.

-Ted "Theodore" Logan


It's a stupid system but I think the easiest method is just to fill it out so you don't have to deal with it going forward. A lot of the questions were irrelevant to my summer experience.

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:20 am

FINALLY. Let's do this.

How much of the time you guys are spending on bidlists is thinking about what firms would be a good fit versus strategizing getting the most interviews? And also what are you guys thinking of doing about Weil?

Jon Snow

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:20 am

First attempt at a bid list, 3.47 GPA (guessing around top 1/3). All offices NY. Looking for corporate (M&A band) (bid:interview %) (offers made 2012):

1. Shearman and Sterling (E3) (288%) (15 offers)
2. Kirkland & Ellis (E3) (268%) (22 offers)
3. Sidley Austin (HR1) (284%) (13 offers)
4. GDC (E5) (239%) (22 offers)
5. Jones Day (E5) (230%) (12 offers)
6. Skadden (E1) (222%) (24 offers)
7. Ropes & Gray (HR2) (233%) (9 offers)
8. Allen & Overy (HR2) (238%) (5 offers)
9. White & Case (HR1) (204%) (9 offers)
10. Latham (E3) (189%) (12 offers)
11. Fried Frank (E4) (189%) (10 offers)
12. Debevoise (E2) (163%) (37 offers)
13. Weil (E2) (178%) (15 offers)
14. Wilkie Farr (E4) (151%) (26 offers)
15. SullCrom (E1) (147%) (35 offers)
16. Milbank (HR2) (145%) (29 offers)
17. Cleary (E2) (139%) (40 offers)
18. Paul Weiss (E3) (137%) (41 offers)
19. DPW (E1) (132%) (46 offers)
20. Akin Gump (HR3) (167%) (10 offers)
21. Cadwalader (HR3) (140%) (10 offers)
22. Kramer Levin (HR3) (152%) (9 offers)
23. Schulte Roth (HR1) (126%) (36 offers)
24. Covington (HR2) (135%) (19 offers)
25. Greenberg Traurig (HR2) (130%) (7 offers)
26. Dechert (HR1) (119%) (6 offers)
27. Simpson Thacher (E1) (106%) (30 offers)
28. Cravath (E1) (104%) (38 offers)
29. Hughes Hubbard (HR2) (109%) (7 offers)
30. Goodwin Procter (HR3) (93%) (4 offers)

Any critiques?

- Hodor

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:22 am

Anonymous User wrote:FINALLY. Let's do this.

How much of the time you guys are spending on bidlists is thinking about what firms would be a good fit versus strategizing getting the most interviews? And also what are you guys thinking of doing about Weil?

Jon Snow


Screw fit, imo. While CSM may be more of a sweatshop than DPW (e.g.), they're all NYC biglaw firms at the end of the day. I'm trying to maximize the number of interviews (with an eye towards those firms that are good in the practice area I want to enter). See above for my first attempt.

- Hodor

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:35 am

Anonymous User wrote:First attempt at a bid list, 3.47 GPA (guessing around top 1/3). All offices NY. Looking for corporate (M&A band) (bid:interview %) (offers made 2012):

Hodor's list

Any critiques?

- Hodor


I wonder if Cravath and SullCrom are a little too aggressive, but maybe I'm wrong. I think you might be better served by cutting down the list some and having some firms with more forgiving bid percentages in there.

Jon Snow wrote:And also what are you guys thinking of doing about Weil?


I'm torn. I really liked the vibe I got from Weil, but preaching about how safe you are to 1Ls and then chopping things like this seems odd to say the least. If other firms follow the lead, I think it will end up being a mistake to ignore them. If it is an isolated incident it reflects poorly for now, but it is less severe than other years. More importantly, given that they had a small-ish class last year (right?) I'm wary that they'll be super selective this year. I wonder if you would get a better return on your bid somewhere else.

-Ted "Theodore" Logan

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:First attempt at a bid list, 3.47 GPA (guessing around top 1/3). All offices NY. Looking for corporate (M&A band) (bid:interview %) (offers made 2012):

Hodor's list

Any critiques?

- Hodor


I wonder if Cravath and SullCrom are a little too aggressive, but maybe I'm wrong. I think you might be better served by cutting down the list some and having some firms with more forgiving bid percentages in there.

-Ted "Theodore" Logan


You could be right on CSM and SullCrom. Not sure either.

Unfortunately that would require me to bid on firms that I'd have no interest in (i.e., not very highly regarded practice areas in M&A/transactional). I'm not sure how I should balance that though.

ETA: I also didn't think it was worth my time bidding firms that gave out no or just a handful of offers in the past couple of years.

- Hodor

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:05 am

So I got my final grades, they ended up as A- B+ B+ B+ B+ B and B for the 7 classes of 1L. I assume this is slightly below median or just about at median?

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:07 am

Anonymous User wrote:So I got my final grades, they ended up as A- B+ B+ B+ B+ B and B for the 7 classes of 1L. I assume this is slightly below median or just about at median?


Doesn't it slightly depend on which classes you got those grades in? Since some classes are weighted more than others? I don't know how much of a difference it would really make, because math, but if the A- is in a 4-credit class and the B is a 3 it could change your GPA slightly.

Jon Snow

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So I got my final grades, they ended up as A- B+ B+ B+ B+ B and B for the 7 classes of 1L. I assume this is slightly below median or just about at median?


Doesn't it slightly depend on which classes you got those grades in? Since some classes are weighted more than others? I don't know how much of a difference it would really make, because math, but if the A- is in a 4-credit class and the B is a 3 it could change your GPA slightly.

Jon Snow


I'd imagine the difference would be small enough such that it would make no tangible difference w/r/t how s/he would make his or her bid list.

And yes, you're right around median.

- Hodor

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:Screw fit, imo. While CSM may be more of a sweatshop than DPW (e.g.), they're all NYC biglaw firms at the end of the day. I'm trying to maximize the number of interviews (with an eye towards those firms that are good in the practice area I want to enter). See above for my first attempt.


Just to chime in, I'm a CLS alum, and judging from the experiences of my friends / classmates, this is a big mistake. I know many people who are miserable because they took the attitude of "they're all sweatshops" and chose minor differences in practice strength over fit.

It's true that you will work more or less equally hard at most of the NY firms. But it makes a big difference to both your well-being and also your prospects for advancement if you genuinely like the people you are working with. I would also add two points, the first being that unless you've worked in particular industry / practice before, I've found the practice area preferences people have going into EIP often change by the end of the summer when people get a fuller view of different practice areas. Second, at least among the top NY firms, people tend to to overestimate differences in practice area strength.

For example, choosing S&C or Cravath over DPW or Cleary for M&A because the former are Band 1 and the latter are Band 2 even though you feel the latter are a better fit is dumb - I can assure you those minute differences have virtually no impact on options, whereas your happiness and how long you stick around will be influenced heavily by fit.

Just my two cents. I know this is just the bidding stage and you can make these distinctions when you choose between firms, but I know way too many people who regret making that type of choice (or, conversely, are happy they went with fit over minor differences in practice area strength).

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:31 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Screw fit, imo. While CSM may be more of a sweatshop than DPW (e.g.), they're all NYC biglaw firms at the end of the day. I'm trying to maximize the number of interviews (with an eye towards those firms that are good in the practice area I want to enter). See above for my first attempt.


Just to chime in, I'm a CLS alum, and judging from the experiences of my friends / classmates, this is a big mistake. I know many people who are miserable because they took the attitude of "they're all sweatshops" and chose minor differences in practice strength over fit.

It's true that you will work more or less equally hard at most of the NY firms. But it makes a big difference to both your well-being and also your prospects for advancement if you genuinely like the people you are working with. I would also add two points, the first being that unless you've worked in particular industry / practice before, I've found the practice area preferences people have going into EIP often change by the end of the summer when people get a fuller view of different practice areas. Second, at least among the top NY firms, people tend to to overestimate differences in practice area strength.

For example, choosing S&C or Cravath over DPW or Cleary for M&A because the former are Band 1 and the latter are Band 2 even though you feel the latter are a better fit is dumb - I can assure you those minute differences have virtually no impact on options, whereas your happiness and how long you stick around will be influenced heavily by fit.

Just my two cents. I know this is just the bidding stage and you can make these distinctions when you choose between firms, but I know way too many people who regret making that type of choice (or, conversely, are happy they went with fit over minor differences in practice area strength).


Great points. I guess I was overstating my point a bit. I feel that fit is definitely something to look for once you're weighing offers, but in the bidding process we should be focusing more on maximizing number of interviews at firms that have larger class sizes and are strong in the practice areas in which we're interested.

I could totally see how the difference between Elite Band 1 or 2 is very minute, but I'd imagine the difference between the top Elite bands and lower Highly Regarded bands is more pronounced?

- Hodor

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:55 am

Does the cutoff for Stone Scholars fluctuate, or does it stay at 3.410, as indicated on the website?

http://web.law.columbia.edu/prizes-awards

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:Does the cutoff for Stone Scholars fluctuate, or does it stay at 3.410, as indicated on the website?

http://web.law.columbia.edu/prizes-awards


It's constant. Though the percent of individuals who are Stone Scholars fluctuates (especially where the curve is made more generous like recently).

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Great points. I guess I was overstating my point a bit. I feel that fit is definitely something to look for once you're weighing offers, but in the bidding process we should be focusing more on maximizing number of interviews at firms that have larger class sizes and are strong in the practice areas in which we're interested.

I could totally see how the difference between Elite Band 1 or 2 is very minute, but I'd imagine the difference between the top Elite bands and lower Highly Regarded bands is more pronounced?

- Hodor


Fair - that's definitely a cut you can make at the offer stage rather than the bid stage. After all, how do you even know which firms you fit with until you interview?

And yes, more pronounced differences do matter.




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