Thoughts on bottom third at M?

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Thoughts on bottom third at M?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:30 pm

Three years decent WE
Ties to non-NY major market

Especially interested in hearing about where people in a similar position have ended up. Thanks.

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Re: Thoughts on bottom third at M?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:01 pm

What's your GPA? The difference between being right at the borderline of bottom third and at the bottom of bottom third will make a major difference.

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Re: Thoughts on bottom third at M?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:01 pm

2.9

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Re: Thoughts on bottom third at M?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:52 pm

BUMP. Not OP, but this thread is relevant to my interests.

GMVarun
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Re: Thoughts on bottom third at M?

Postby GMVarun » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:33 pm

Bottom 1/3 is not a good look (and below 3.0 especially). A few questions: How much debt do you have? Where are you working this summer? Have you enjoyed law school? Are you biglaw or bust or are you looking at public interest as well?

Those grades make getting biglaw pretty dicey. You need to hustle: mass-mail, set up informational interviews, reach out to family, friends, alumni, etc. Good luck.

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Re: Thoughts on bottom third at M?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:28 am

Had a 2.9 from a peer school, but did OCI in 2011, a few years back, and got nothing, and I would say I'm a pretty capable interview. Let me tell you, pound the pavement, reach out to all and I mean ALL of the connections you have, family members, friends, etc, because even if a 3.0 and a 2.9 aren't THAT far apart in the grand scheme of things just like a 3.2 and a 3.3 aren't all that different, employers seem to have some sort of mental barrier to taking on someone with a 3.0 and a sub-3. Seriously, know someone who had a 2.98, great interviewer, got nothing, and someone else with a 3.01, awkward person, likely a terrible interviewer, and they landed something. Got absolutely nothing. Prepare yourself for the likelihood of striking out. I'm not saying assume it's a given, but do your best not to strike out but mentally prepare yourself for it's high likelihood. Reach out to alum from your undergrad, Michigan alum, any relevant people from those 3 years of WE etc. Also, you NEED to mass mail, not 10, not 20, but some SERIOUS mass-mailing. Also, even though you need to mass mail a shitload of places, doens't mean you should mail merge and make them untailored. With your GPA, you're going to want to tailor those cover letters and sell that application package, because your GPA isn't doing you favors. Think you don't have the time? You do, other than what you do this summer as your 1L internship and any networking/reaching out emails and informational interviews, you should be doing tailored cover letters, researching firms, small midsize and large, in any market where you have connections or ties, and to big markets like New York, with big summer class sizes. Also take advantage of the MIchigan name in the midwest market, i.e. Detroit, etc. Things seem to have improved in terms of OCI hiring since my year, but that doesn't mean it's pre'07 where a firm would dip down to a sub-3 without issue as long as you were at a T14, when it was all models and bottles and crazy hiring. That era isn ever coming back, and this improvement in the past few years is still not enough to give even a guarantee to median candidates at most of the T14 save the T6. Sorry this post is a bit disorganized and rambling, it's late and I'm a bit tired, but seriously, you've got two months until OCI, use them wisely, and during your fall semester, just keep on pushing to land a summer associate position as hard as you can (if you're all for big/midlaw). If you're going for non-biglaw such as PI/government, I don't know as much on that hiring and you will get better advice on that from other posters. Keep your chin up, don't let it get you down, you still go to Michigan, and even with low odds, doesn't mean impossible by any means if you put in the work. Good luck OP

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Re: Thoughts on bottom third at M?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:Had a 2.9 from a peer school, but did OCI in 2011, a few years back, and got nothing, and I would say I'm a pretty capable interview. Let me tell you, pound the pavement, reach out to all and I mean ALL of the connections you have, family members, friends, etc, because even if a 3.0 and a 2.9 aren't THAT far apart in the grand scheme of things just like a 3.2 and a 3.3 aren't all that different, employers seem to have some sort of mental barrier to taking on someone with a 3.0 and a sub-3. Seriously, know someone who had a 2.98, great interviewer, got nothing, and someone else with a 3.01, awkward person, likely a terrible interviewer, and they landed something. Got absolutely nothing. Prepare yourself for the likelihood of striking out. I'm not saying assume it's a given, but do your best not to strike out but mentally prepare yourself for it's high likelihood. Reach out to alum from your undergrad, Michigan alum, any relevant people from those 3 years of WE etc. Also, you NEED to mass mail, not 10, not 20, but some SERIOUS mass-mailing. Also, even though you need to mass mail a shitload of places, doens't mean you should mail merge and make them untailored. With your GPA, you're going to want to tailor those cover letters and sell that application package, because your GPA isn't doing you favors. Think you don't have the time? You do, other than what you do this summer as your 1L internship and any networking/reaching out emails and informational interviews, you should be doing tailored cover letters, researching firms, small midsize and large, in any market where you have connections or ties, and to big markets like New York, with big summer class sizes. Also take advantage of the MIchigan name in the midwest market, i.e. Detroit, etc. Things seem to have improved in terms of OCI hiring since my year, but that doesn't mean it's pre'07 where a firm would dip down to a sub-3 without issue as long as you were at a T14, when it was all models and bottles and crazy hiring. That era isn ever coming back, and this improvement in the past few years is still not enough to give even a guarantee to median candidates at most of the T14 save the T6. Sorry this post is a bit disorganized and rambling, it's late and I'm a bit tired, but seriously, you've got two months until OCI, use them wisely, and during your fall semester, just keep on pushing to land a summer associate position as hard as you can (if you're all for big/midlaw). If you're going for non-biglaw such as PI/government, I don't know as much on that hiring and you will get better advice on that from other posters. Keep your chin up, don't let it get you down, you still go to Michigan, and even with low odds, doesn't mean impossible by any means if you put in the work. Good luck OP


Thanks for the advice. Do you mind sharing what you're doing now? Broad generalization is okay, I understand if you don't want to out yourself

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Re: Thoughts on bottom third at M?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:37 am

GMVarun wrote:Bottom 1/3 is not a good look (and below 3.0 especially). A few questions: How much debt do you have? Where are you working this summer? Have you enjoyed law school? Are you biglaw or bust or are you looking at public interest as well?

Those grades make getting biglaw pretty dicey. You need to hustle: mass-mail, set up informational interviews, reach out to family, friends, alumni, etc. Good luck.


OP here.

70K debt. I'm 50/50 on enjoying law school. Big or midlaw would be the best case scenario.

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Re: Thoughts on bottom third at M?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:Seriously, know someone who had a 2.98, great interviewer, got nothing, and someone else with a 3.01, awkward person, likely a terrible interviewer, and they landed something. Got absolutely nothing.


My first post in this thread.

Oh fuck me. 2.98 at Michigan. Strong Midwest ties, but pretty pissed right now that I couldn't just have .02 higher.

michwolv
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Re: Thoughts on bottom third at M?

Postby michwolv » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:18 am

Had some friends in this position. Its not easy but it's not hopeless. As for OCI, it will be pretty tough. I would spend your first 10 bids on NYC firms w big classes and low grade selectivity (Cadwalader comes to mind).

Use your next 10 bids on firms w lower grades in your hometown, if you can find that many. Then, after that, if you have ANY connection to the Midwest, use it. If you don't, make one up, and then use your lower bids on firms from Milwaukee, Cleveland, Cincy, Indianapolis, etc. They love Michigan and can't be afford to be as picky BC not many choose them regularly. Also, their interview slots are unlikely to fill up as fast. If you spend your last 10 bids on major market offices w low grades, you will be lucky to land one interview of the 10. You can't afford that right now.

Finally, hustle. I heard of one kid who got a top firm in so cal with similar numbers to you based solely on a well-written letter he send.

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Re: Thoughts on bottom third at M?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:25 am

I was in this situation when I was a 1L. I am a t7 now and I have a job lined up at a V100. But I didn't get this through OGI. I actually got it my third year (networking).

Advice: hustle/network (primary network... with firms at your GPA range). This is for now. That is the only way you would actually get anything from OGI. Focus on midsize firms that you have any connection too.

Most likely, you are going to end up struggling for govt work. Focus on possibly noting onto Law Review, Publishing, and Developing a specialty (lit/corporate). This will help you get employed during 2L and 3L year.

Good luck.




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