HLS EIP 2013 Forum

justanotherlurker · Post by **justanotherlurker** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:OCS email just now - evidently firms have been told to GTFO with their cover letter requests:

Please be advised that employers are not allowed to request cover letters as part of the interview process at Harvard Law School. You should not submit a resume during the bidding period that includes a cover letter, nor should you bring a cover letter to the interview. The reason for this "no cover letter" policy is that we want students to focus on preparing for interviews, rather than preparing cover letters.

Sweet, I'm not crazy.

GertrudePerkins · Post by **GertrudePerkins** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
cerealdan wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What writing sample are people using? All the memo's I've written over the summer are very short and very confidential, eve with redactions of names and such. So Ames brief it is?
Another possible option if you did the HLR write-on is your case comment.
Do you think this is a good idea? I made LR so I know my case comment isn't a total piece of garbage, but I am unsure employers will be receptive to it as a writing sample since it is not representative of the work associates generally do.

I think doing this is relatively common. I did it and it worked out fine. Especially if you actually made the LR.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:22 pm

FWIW, career services advised me not to use my case comment (made LR). They said an LRW assignment was a better choice.

onehellofaride · Post by **onehellofaride** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:24 pm

justanotherlurker wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OCS email just now - evidently firms have been told to GTFO with their cover letter requests:

Please be advised that employers are not allowed to request cover letters as part of the interview process at Harvard Law School. You should not submit a resume during the bidding period that includes a cover letter, nor should you bring a cover letter to the interview. The reason for this "no cover letter" policy is that we want students to focus on preparing for interviews, rather than preparing cover letters.
Sweet, I'm not crazy.

I did not receive this email. Was it a response to a question you posed, or a mass mail to all students?

justanotherlurker · Post by **justanotherlurker** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:34 pm

onehellofaride wrote:
justanotherlurker wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OCS email just now - evidently firms have been told to GTFO with their cover letter requests:

Please be advised that employers are not allowed to request cover letters as part of the interview process at Harvard Law School. You should not submit a resume during the bidding period that includes a cover letter, nor should you bring a cover letter to the interview. The reason for this "no cover letter" policy is that we want students to focus on preparing for interviews, rather than preparing cover letters.
Sweet, I'm not crazy.
I did not receive this email. Was it a response to a question you posed, or a mass mail to all students?

Sent b/c I bid on one of the places that had asked for a cover letter.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:58 pm

justanotherlurker wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hey all, I've got a question on general bidding strategies. I'd really like to do DC, but I'm not sure how I should bid. I have strong ties (born and raised in DC area, all immediate family in the area etc), 2 years of decent work experience and 1 DS, 1H and 8 Ps. OCS seemed to think it would be fine if I basically went all in on DC, as long as I had a fair amount of less-selective firms. However, I can't tell if they're just telling me that because it's what I want to hear, or if it's the case that DC is doable for me (the TLS echo chamber makes me think it's risky to bank so much on DC). If I'm concerned with getting shut out/okay with going to NYC, should I do something like 25/10 DC:NY?

Thanks everybody.
If OCS says it's OK, it's OK. It's their job to make sure everyone gets a job, they don't really care about how prestigious the job you get is. But if they say to bid on less-competitive firms, make sure you have ~5 of your top 10 or so be less-selective. Probably don't bid many/most of the most-selective DC tier.

But yes, a job at a top-tier NYC firm will be much easier to get than a top-tier DC firm. If you care more about prestige than what city, add some NY into the mix.

Thanks, I'm still a bit nervous about going in DC-heavy, but the consensus seems to be that it's ok, and I'm trying to focus mainly on less-selective firms. With that in mind, any thoughts on my bid list would be appreciated. I'm not sure if I'm overbidding some firms (Crowell/Wilkie) and should put some of the smaller screener firms higher, and if I have too many selective firms in my top 10. But yea, any critique would be appreciated.

1. Jones Day DC (57)
2. hogan lovells DC/NYC (60/40)
3. Crowell and Moring (40)
4. Akin Gump DC (40/40)
5. K&L Gates DC (20)
6. Sidley Austin NYC (60)
7. Venable (20)
8. Cooley DC (72)
9. Winston Strawn DC (20/20)
10. MOFO DC (20)
11. Wilkie DC/NYC (20/120)
12. Baker Botts DC (40)
13. Chadbourne NYC (60)
14. Morgan Lewis DC (20)
15. White and Case DC/NYC (20)
16. Arnold and Porter (80)
17. Sutherland (20)
18. Proskauer NYC (80)
19. Fried Frank DC/NYC (20) (not sure if I should put NYC as the primary here though)
20. Milbank NYC (120)
21. Weil (99)
22. Cadwalader DC (20)
23. Schulte NYC (60)
24. Kaye Scholer NYC (60)
25. Dechert NYC (40)
26. Wiley Rein DC (60)
27. Baker McKenzie DC (20)
28. Steptoe and Johnson DC (120)
29. Goodwin DC (40)
30. Kasowitz NYC (20)
31. Vinson and Elkins (30)
32. Pillsbury DC (20)
33. Hughes Hubbard and Reed DC (20)
34. Miller Chevalier DC (13)
35. Foley and Lardner DC (20)

Thanks all.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:00 pm

8 H (2 DS) / 2 P, prestigious undergrad, interested in NY and litigation. Have to say I'm pretty damn lost with all this, as OCS advisers were too vague for my liking. Realize I'm bearing down on the last minute, but any advice on constructing a bidlist would be appreciated.

Also, do firms care about URM specifically or diversity in general? I'm not AA/hispanic, but I'm definitely not white.

- Mariner

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:8 H (2 DS) / 2 P, prestigious undergrad, interested in NY and litigation. Have to say I'm pretty damn lost with all this, as OCS advisers were too vague for my liking. Realize I'm bearing down on the last minute, but any advice on constructing a bidlist would be appreciated.

Also, do firms care about URM specifically or diversity in general? I'm not AA/hispanic, but I'm definitely not white.

- Mariner

I really think you are over thinking this. With 8Hs you do not have to worry about selectivity. Since you have less than 2 days I would advice you to look at the vault litigation practice area 2014 rankings and compare the list to the information on chambers. Then use the statistics from the previous EIP to order your list (make firms that have less slots and receive a lot of bids higher on your list than firms with many spots).

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:57 pm

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:08 am

Thanks flowergirl!

-Yoshi

JDflowergirl · Post by **JDflowergirl** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:24 am

Hey Yoshi

1. Move Boies up to #1 to increase your chance of getting the it but apart from that I think you should get most if not all of the rest of the firms in bold. Maybe move up Freshfields a little if you are worried about it.

2. You are probably not going to get 29-32 & 34-35 so I think they are wasted bids either move them up or replace them with firms you stand a chance of getting. You can also move wachtell, Davis Polk, Simpson, and Paul Weiss lower, you will probable still get them no matter what number they appear on the list.

3. Goodluck!

JDflowergirl · Post by **JDflowergirl** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks to everyone helping out the last minute stragglers! I'm embarrassed to say I've barely given EIP any thought - some life/family issues completely took over my summer, and now I'm suddenly very worried that I haven't left any time to figure things out.

My biggest concern is that I'm not even sure about what kind of firm to consider. I'd like to do international public interest work (all of that rah rah save-the-world humanitarian business) and don't fancy the idea of working at a firm, but I don't qualify for LIPP. My summer supervisor suggested that firm work could actually be useful if I want to pursue, say, international human rights impact litigation, so the plan is to do a few years of firm work in an area that would contribute towards my eventual career interests. My questions fall into a few categories:

(1) I've looked at the international firms ranking on Vault, but what other areas should I be examining? Litigation comes to mind, but does anyone know of others that would be useful to someone in my situation?

(2) I'm interested in NY/LA for personal reasons, but should I be looking at international offices? If so, do international markets care about regional ties the way US-based markets do? Does one convey his/her regional ties (even for LA) through the resume or the interview?

(3) I'm concerned that I won't be able to explain why I want to work at a certain firm when my resume has zero private sector experience. Any honest explanation of my interest would involve me revealing that I don't plan on sticking around for long. I did study econ in undergrad, so I was thinking I could spin that somehow. Any advice?

I'm really sorry for asking so many questions and for sounding a bit panicked. I just haven't talked to anyone else in my situation and feel terrible for not having looked into this sooner. If grades would help, I have 9 Hs and 1 P (some DSs, though it seems like those don't count for much?) but no LR.

Thanks so much in advance.

1. I do not know where you would start looking for firms that deal with international human rights. But I do know that firms like Debevoise, Steptoe, Allen & Overy, White & Case, Arnold & Porter, Cleary, Jones day, Latham have public international law practices. Look here (http://www.chambersandpartners.com/usa/Editorial/73608). You will have to find out if their New York/LA offices focus on this practice.

2. There is nothing wrong with looking at international offices but you do have to make sure you have a solid reason why you want to work there. Yes they look at ties or evidence that you have at least put thought about your decision but not having ties will not hold you back

3. I think you should listen to the summer podcast series on OCS's website, there might be a lot of info there that addresses your concerns. Don't worry too much about your past experiences just have a reason why you want to work at a particular firm now e.g they work in this practice area etc.

4. You have great grades so employers are going to be willing to forgive some interview flaws but please make sure you really want to work at a firm because right now you sound very undecided/pressured. Look at your other options and make up your mind. After doing all this research you should be better able to explain to firms why this is the right move for you and why they should kill to have you (because they will want you!)

I hope this is helpful. Good Luck!

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:51 pm

I'm the anon from above with the DC/NYC bidlist, can anyone give me some last-minute critiques? Also, do we need our final resume to be ready for tomorrow? I read on the OCS site that we can update resumes up until august 4th (under the countdown to eip section), but if i have to make my changes tonight/tomorrow I can go ahead and do that.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:11 pm

Hi guys, another last minute critique, really just on bidding positions, The firms in bold are the ones I really want screeners with, do I need to move any of them up to ensure I get them? This is based off last years stats. Much appreciated

1 Allen & Overy NY
2 Orrick Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP NY
3 Jones Day New York, NY
4 clifford chance New York, NY
5 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld New York, NY
6 DLA Piper NY / DC
7 freshfields bruckhaus deringer New York, NY
8 White & Case DC
9 hogan lovells Washington, DC
10 Linklaters New York, NY
11 Cleary, Gottlieb, Steen & Hamilton New York, NY
12 King & Spalding Washington, DC
13 Cahill Gordon & Reindel New York, NY
14 Winston & Strawn LLP New York, NY
15 Chadbourne & Parke LLP New York, NY
16 Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman DC
17 sidley austin llp Washington, DC
18 Latham & Watkins NY
19 Fulbright & Jaworski Washington, DC
20 Cleary, Gottlieb, Steen & Hamilton Washington, DC
21 Arnold & Porter Washington, DC
22 Kirkland & Ellis New York, NY
23 Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy New York, NY
24 Proskauer Rose New York, NY
25 Dechert NY
26 Hughes Hubbard & Reed New York, NY
27 Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson New York, NY
28 Kaye Scholer New York, NY
29 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher New York, NY
30 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft New York, NY
31 Debevoise & Plimpton New York, NY
32 Curtis, Mallet-Prevost, Colt & Mosle New York, NY
33 Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP New York, NY
34 Steptoe & Johnson Washington, DC
35 Weil Gotshal & Manges New York, NY

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm the anon from above with the DC/NYC bidlist, can anyone give me some last-minute critiques? Also, do we need our final resume to be ready for tomorrow? I read on the OCS site that we can update resumes up until august 4th (under the countdown to eip section), but if i have to make my changes tonight/tomorrow I can go ahead and do that.

Wondering this, as well.

JDflowergirl · Post by **JDflowergirl** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi guys, another last minute critique, really just on bidding positions, The firms in bold are the ones I really want screeners with, do I need to move any of them up to ensure I get them? This is based off last years stats. Much appreciated
1 Allen & Overy NY
2 Orrick Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP NY
3 Jones Day New York, NY
4 Clifford Chance New York, NY
5 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld New York, NY
6 DLA Piper NY / DC
7 Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer New York, NY
8 White & Case DC
9 Hogan Lovells Washington, DC
10 Linklaters New York, NY
11 Cleary, Gottlieb, Steen & Hamilton New York, NY
12 King & Spalding Washington, DC
13 Cahill Gordon & Reindel New York, NY
14 Winston & Strawn LLP New York, NY
15 Chadbourne & Parke LLP New York, NY
16 Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman DC
17 Sidley Austin LLP Washington, DC
18 Latham & Watkins NY
19 Fulbright & Jaworski Washington, DC
20 Cleary, Gottlieb, Steen & Hamilton Washington, DC
21 Arnold & Porter Washington, DC
22 Kirkland & Ellis New York, NY
23 Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy New York, NY
24 Proskauer Rose New York, NY
25 Dechert NY
26 Hughes Hubbard & Reed New York, NY
27 Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson New York, NY
28 Kaye Scholer New York, NY
29 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher New York, NY
30 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft New York, NY
31 Debevoise & Plimpton New York, NY
32 Curtis, Mallet-Prevost, Colt & Mosle New York, NY
33 Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP New York, NY
34 Steptoe & Johnson Washington, DC
35 Weil Gotshal & Manges New York, NY

I think the positions of the bold firms are fine. I would move up Weil, Debevoise & Kirkland

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:12 am

Bidding results out! Pretty happy with my lineup, got 19 out of my top 20.

Any veterans' thoughts on how many interviews/day is optimal? I have a few 7-interview days, which seems insane - should I trim the fat on those a little and just stick with the 4-5 I'm most interested in?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:14 am

bid all ny. thought i had put together a nice bid list but only got 21 interviews. is that pretty low? thought the norm was about 70-75%..

JDflowergirl · Post by **JDflowergirl** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:19 am

Got 30/35 bid all NY

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:21 am

Bid all DC, got 29/35 interviews and didn't miss anyone I really wanted to see (though I missed 2 in my top 20). One day I have 10 interviews - does that seem like a realistic number to be able to do in a day? They are all firms I'm really interested in so I'm hesitant to drop any, but not sure if by the end of the day I will be too talked-out to make a good impression.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:23 am

JDflowergirl wrote:Got 30/35 bid all NY

But are you really going to actually use 30 interviews (I'm the first anon above)? I mean you can only take one job - assuming you're reasonably confident in your overall package, I feel like 20 interviews on your A-game is better than dragging yourself through 30, but of course I haven't done this before.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:37 am

All in on DC, got 33/35.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:45 am

Mix of Chicago and NY/other markets. Got 27 screeners, 22 of which are with Chicago offices.

JDflowergirl · Post by **JDflowergirl** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:59 am

Anonymous User wrote:
JDflowergirl wrote:Got 30/35 bid all NY
But are you really going to actually use 30 interviews (I'm the first anon above)? I mean you can only take one job - assuming you're reasonably confident in your overall package, I feel like 20 interviews on your A-game is better than dragging yourself through 30, but of course I haven't done this before.

At this point I know I am not going to do 30 but I don't think I'm going to drop it down to 20. What matters to me is not the total number but the number of interviews per day. I can do 30 interviews if i had 6 per day but I can't if i have 8-10 on 1 or 2 days.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:54 am

Bid 34 (mostly NY), got 23.

There are at least 1 or 2 firms that I really wanted to interview with that I didn't get. Is there a way to add them, or am I totally out of luck?

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