Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

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Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:28 pm

T30 ED admit, approx. 15%. No ties to any markets that care about ties. Ties through my wife to secondary market.

Should I bid New York to be safe or can I target home market, wife's market and Chicago? What level firms should I be looking at? There isn't much data for CCN transfers with my numbers.

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:T30 ED admit, approx. 15%. No ties to any markets that care about ties. Ties through my wife to secondary market.

Should I bid New York to be safe or can I target home market, wife's market and Chicago? What level firms should I be looking at? There isn't much data for CCN transfers with my numbers.


For a safe bet I'd pick Chicago. They'll dip much further in the class than other firms. And you can sell coming to UChicago as your tie. The transfers that did get NYC last year had top of class grades at their old school or great work experience.

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:32 am

Bid conservatively and don't waste bids on uber competitive firms. just realize alums interview and can be very biased against transfers. Also mass mail prior for secondary markets bc uchi oci is later.

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:59 am

You'll be judged off your old school's grades, so talk to their OCS and try to get some info re: cutoffs.

Also be careful about bidding Chicago, even uchicago students who are median can have trouble if they only bid chi.

I'd go for secondary market or firm. My guess is you transferred for clerkship opportunities because you're aware that it doesn't change anything for OCI, so you may have a better shot at top firms out of a clerkship if you otherwise wouldn't have the grades for it at your old school.

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:42 am

I would veer away from Chicago. Chicago market was brutal last year, even for people with good grades.

Bid heavy on non-grade selective firms in NY (OCS will give you a list of "grade selective" firms). Mass mail your home market and your wife's secondary market before OCI, even firms that are coming to OCI, and use any remaining bids on those firms that come to OCI.

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:I would veer away from Chicago. Chicago market was brutal last year, even for people with good grades.

Bid heavy on non-grade selective firms in NY (OCS will give you a list of "grade selective" firms). Mass mail your home market and your wife's secondary market before OCI, even firms that are coming to OCI, and use any remaining bids on those firms that come to OCI.


Every transfer that bid all Chicago last year got an offer. The ones that bid NYC had less success, unless they had good work experience. At least 4 transfers last year struck out. I know general TLS wisdom is to bid NYC but transfers who bid Chicago had much more success.

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:41 pm

OP here. If my home market is DC, is it even worth spending bids on?

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby mr.hands » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. If my home market is DC, is it even worth spending bids on?


probably not. (you might throw a couple that way and see what happens, but don't expect anything)

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:14 pm

Jeez. Am I looking likely to strike out even at a T6? I have no ties to Chicago, but it sounds like I should bid there and NYC...

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I would veer away from Chicago. Chicago market was brutal last year, even for people with good grades.

Bid heavy on non-grade selective firms in NY (OCS will give you a list of "grade selective" firms). Mass mail your home market and your wife's secondary market before OCI, even firms that are coming to OCI, and use any remaining bids on those firms that come to OCI.


Every transfer that bid all Chicago last year got an offer. The ones that bid NYC had less success, unless they had good work experience. At least 4 transfers last year struck out. I know general TLS wisdom is to bid NYC but transfers who bid Chicago had much more success.


At least four transfer students part of the C/O 2014 struck out? I guess I'm not surprised since it seemed like a much weaker transfer class (in terms of 1L grades / schools and social skills) than C/O 2013's or C/O 2012's transfer class. I was in one of those transfer classes, and pretty much all of us killed it at OCI—whether we bid NYC or Chicago.

I think the C/O 2014's transfer class was a bit of an anomaly. I'm not sure how much should be extrapolated from their experiences.

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:14 pm

I was also a c/o 2013 transfer. I will agree with the poster above that c/o 2014 underperformed for whatever reason (The impression I got was lack of interviewing/social skills or lack of hustle).

To the poster who had a DC home market: I know two c/o 2013ers who had multiple DC offers. Your 1L grades are going to matter to a certain extent, but selling your ties and yourself are going to be the bigger deciding factor.

Regarding general firm recommendations: You need to critically assess how well you interview and present yourself, because that is just as important (if not more) as your 1L grades as a transfer. There were transfer EDers who let their second semester grades slip and still received V5 offers because they were social and interviewed well. There were also transfers with stellar 1L grades who struggled because they have the personality of a hand towel.

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I was also a c/o 2013 transfer. I will agree with the poster above that c/o 2014 underperformed for whatever reason (The impression I got was lack of interviewing/social skills or lack of hustle).

To the poster who had a DC home market: I know two c/o 2013ers who had multiple DC offers. Your 1L grades are going to matter to a certain extent, but selling your ties and yourself are going to be the bigger deciding factor.

Regarding general firm recommendations: You need to critically assess how well you interview and present yourself, because that is just as important (if not more) as your 1L grades as a transfer. There were transfer EDers who let their second semester grades slip and still received V5 offers because they were social and interviewed well. There were also transfers with stellar 1L grades who struggled because they have the personality of a hand towel.


I wouldn't say underperformed, just that there was a wide diversity of outcomes. Most of the class ended up with V20 firms but then a few struck out for whatever reason. Sometimes it's just bad luck.

I second the interviewing thing but I'd look more at your personality. You can have the right questions and the right answers but if you're a quiet/awkward person it's going to be tough to sell yourself. People with mediocre grades and great personalities always overperform people with good grades and weird/awkward personalities. If you're the latter I'd bid Chicago IMO. If you have both (you clearly have the grades) then you should be fine.

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I was also a c/o 2013 transfer. I will agree with the poster above that c/o 2014 underperformed for whatever reason (The impression I got was lack of interviewing/social skills or lack of hustle).

To the poster who had a DC home market: I know two c/o 2013ers who had multiple DC offers. Your 1L grades are going to matter to a certain extent, but selling your ties and yourself are going to be the bigger deciding factor.

Regarding general firm recommendations: You need to critically assess how well you interview and present yourself, because that is just as important (if not more) as your 1L grades as a transfer. There were transfer EDers who let their second semester grades slip and still received V5 offers because they were social and interviewed well. There were also transfers with stellar 1L grades who struggled because they have the personality of a hand towel.


I wouldn't say underperformed, just that there was a wide diversity of outcomes. Most of the class ended up with V20 firms but then a few struck out for whatever reason. Sometimes it's just bad luck.


(Different poster from the one you responded to here.)

I would say underperformed. The transfer class part of the C/O 2014 was exceptionally weak. Approximately 40 percent of the C/O 2013 transfers had at least one V5 offer, and every transfer student who wanted biglaw got it (I think there was one transfer who was set on public interest from the start).

It may have been bad luck at times, but my experience with a couple of the C/O 2014 transfers reinforces the notion that a complete lack of social skills had at least something to do with the group's underperformance. The admissions office really dropped the ball in 2012.

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:36 pm

More advice for OP: Use the fucking who-worked-where (WWW) list. The impression I got from the few 2014ers I talked it (regardless of outcome) is that they did not heed this advice even though one of my classmates endorsed this tactic heavily at their orientation.

This should be the process for EVERY firm on your interview list:
1) Go to WWW list, find name of someone/people who worked at that firm.
2) Email them and ask to briefly chat with them about their summer experience at firm, preferably by phone.
3) Go into your interview knowing that when asked "Why Crane, Poole, and Schmidt?" or any variation on that question, you can intelligently answer, "Well, I chatted with <Name Drop> about his/her experience at CPS this summer and..."

Seriously, it's way better than saying some canned Chambers/Off-their-website bullshit answer and it shows you put 10 minutes of additional thought into the issue.

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:More advice for OP: Use the fucking who-worked-where (WWW) list. The impression I got from the few 2014ers I talked it (regardless of outcome) is that they did not heed this advice.

This should be the process for EVERY firm on your interview list:
1) Go to WWW list, find name of someone/people who worked at that firm.
2) Email them and ask to briefly chat with them about their summer experience at firm, preferably by phone.
3) Go into your interview knowing that when asked "Why Crane, Poole, and Schmidt?" or any variation on that question, you can intelligently answer, "Well, I chatted with <Name Drop> about his/her experience at CPS this summer and..."

Seriously, it's way better than saying some canned Chambers/Off-their-website bullshit answer and it shows you put 10 minutes of additional thought into the issue.


I second all of this.

I talked to every transfer working as a summer associate in the city I wanted to work in. I met all but one but one of them in person. A few were extremely helpful not only with advice about their firm, but how to deal with OCI as a transfer in general. They walked me through how to handle questions, and referred me to UChicago nontransfers who were working at other firms. A couple of them stayed in contact with me throughout the OCI process, and helped out with the various stages of OCI/callback/offer.

I am shocked that not more people do this. Being a transfer helps out even more in this regard, because you already have a network of other transfers, and transfers tend to look out for other transfers. I worked at a very prestigious firm over the summer, and how many students contacted me wanting to talk about the firm over a coffee? Zero.

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.

Postby Myself » Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:50 pm

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Last edited by Myself on Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:More advice for OP: Use the fucking who-worked-where (WWW) list. The impression I got from the few 2014ers I talked it (regardless of outcome) is that they did not heed this advice.

This should be the process for EVERY firm on your interview list:
1) Go to WWW list, find name of someone/people who worked at that firm.
2) Email them and ask to briefly chat with them about their summer experience at firm, preferably by phone.
3) Go into your interview knowing that when asked "Why Crane, Poole, and Schmidt?" or any variation on that question, you can intelligently answer, "Well, I chatted with <Name Drop> about his/her experience at CPS this summer and..."

Seriously, it's way better than saying some canned Chambers/Off-their-website bullshit answer and it shows you put 10 minutes of additional thought into the issue.


I second all of this.

I talked to every transfer working as a summer associate in the city I wanted to work in. I met all but one but one of them in person. A few were extremely helpful not only with advice about their firm, but how to deal with OCI as a transfer in general. They walked me through how to handle questions, and referred me to UChicago nontransfers who were working at other firms. A couple of them stayed in contact with me throughout the OCI process, and helped out with the various stages of OCI/callback/offer.

I am shocked that not more people do this. Being a transfer helps out even more in this regard, because you already have a network of other transfers, and transfers tend to look out for other transfers. I worked at a very prestigious firm over the summer, and how many students contacted me wanting to talk about the firm over a coffee? Zero.



OP here. Thanks for the advice! How did you determine which 2Ls were transfers?

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:More advice for OP: Use the fucking who-worked-where (WWW) list. The impression I got from the few 2014ers I talked it (regardless of outcome) is that they did not heed this advice.

This should be the process for EVERY firm on your interview list:
1) Go to WWW list, find name of someone/people who worked at that firm.
2) Email them and ask to briefly chat with them about their summer experience at firm, preferably by phone.
3) Go into your interview knowing that when asked "Why Crane, Poole, and Schmidt?" or any variation on that question, you can intelligently answer, "Well, I chatted with <Name Drop> about his/her experience at CPS this summer and..."

Seriously, it's way better than saying some canned Chambers/Off-their-website bullshit answer and it shows you put 10 minutes of additional thought into the issue.


I second all of this.

I talked to every transfer working as a summer associate in the city I wanted to work in. I met all but one but one of them in person. A few were extremely helpful not only with advice about their firm, but how to deal with OCI as a transfer in general. They walked me through how to handle questions, and referred me to UChicago nontransfers who were working at other firms. A couple of them stayed in contact with me throughout the OCI process, and helped out with the various stages of OCI/callback/offer.

I am shocked that not more people do this. Being a transfer helps out even more in this regard, because you already have a network of other transfers, and transfers tend to look out for other transfers. I worked at a very prestigious firm over the summer, and how many students contacted me wanting to talk about the firm over a coffee? Zero.



OP here. Thanks for the advice! How did you determine which 2Ls were transfers?


I think I inferred it from the fact that transfers have their 2L, but not 1L, jobs listed on the WWW list. It's not a perfect proxy, but once I sent my initial email, mentioning that I was a transfer, they would typically respond and confirm my suspicions of them being a transfer as well. From there, one transfer might refer you to other transfers, and then you're set.

One more piece of advice related to all this: When somebody does help you out, let them know how incredibly grateful you are for their time spent helping you. It goes a long way.

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:00 am

I would bid all Chi, NY, and DC firms. People say DC is out of reach. That is BS. I was able to snag DC callbacks with never being there before and median grades. A lot of DC firms care about your ties more than your grades, and some take people in the bottom 20% of the class with ties. Seriously, look at the doc OCS gives you with the ITE cutoffs. Also, I don't know what the issue was with NY firms last year, but understand that bidding is cyclical. Two years before mine ( I am class of 2013), everyone was screwed due to the down economy, but people overperformed Chicago. A year before mine, OCS told everyone to bid Chicago and Chicago was absolutely dead and a bunch of my classmates who bid Chicago over NY got screwed. Same deal to a lesser extent my year-- Chicago was still dead and a good number of people who weren't willing to try NY as well were in trouble. It sounds like the opposite happened last year (probably because OCS finally realized that NY was hiring over Chicago and recommended everyone apply there). You want to be where the crowd is not to an extent.

I would put the less grade selective firms highest in bidding, and try to jump in on the rest. This one guy my year got 70 or something interviews by jumping into open slots and hustling. Also, there are a good number of DC, Chicago, and NYC firms that don't come to our OCI. I would shoot them an email July 31, and there is a good chance you will get a CB.

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:17 pm

Any thoughts on this bid list (in no particular order). Too aggressive? Conservative? Just right?

Paul Weiss (NY)
Milbank (NY)
WilmerHale (NY)
Ropes & Gray (NY)
Shearman (NY)
Jones Day (NY)
Cadwalader (NY)
Debevoise (NY)
Stroock & Stroock (NY)
Fried Frank (NY)
Freshfields (NY)
Kirkland & Ellis (NY)
Dechert (NY)
Proskauer Rose (NY)
Paul Hastings (NY)
Pillsbury (NY)
Curtis Mallet Prevost (NY)
Sheppard Mullin (NY)
Bryan Cave (NY)
Cooley (NY)
Sidley (Chi)
Mayer Brown (Chi)
Skadden (Chi)
Latham (Chi)
Jenner & Block (Chi)
Dentons (Chi)
Katten Muchin (Chi)
Winston & Strawn (Chi)
Chapman & Cutler (Chi)
Schiff Hardin (Chi)
Foley (Chi)
McGuire Woods (Chi)
K&L Gates (Chi)
Reed Smith (Chi)
Barack Ferrazano (Chi)
Baker & McKenzie (Chi)
Dykema Gossett (Chi)
Drinker Biddle (Chi)
Edwards Wildman Palmer (Chi)
Greenberg Traurig (Chi)

plus 5-10 top firms from wife's 'secondary' (think Dallas/Houston/Atlanta).

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Any thoughts on this bid list (in no particular order). Too aggressive? Conservative? Just right?

Paul Weiss (NY)
Milbank (NY)
WilmerHale (NY)
Ropes & Gray (NY)
Shearman (NY)
Jones Day (NY)
Cadwalader (NY)
Debevoise (NY)
Stroock & Stroock (NY)
Fried Frank (NY)
Freshfields (NY)
Kirkland & Ellis (NY)
Dechert (NY)
Proskauer Rose (NY)
Paul Hastings (NY)
Pillsbury (NY)
Curtis Mallet Prevost (NY)
Sheppard Mullin (NY)
Bryan Cave (NY)
Cooley (NY)
Sidley (Chi)
Mayer Brown (Chi)
Skadden (Chi)
Latham (Chi)
Jenner & Block (Chi)
Dentons (Chi)
Katten Muchin (Chi)
Winston & Strawn (Chi)
Chapman & Cutler (Chi)
Schiff Hardin (Chi)
Foley (Chi)
McGuire Woods (Chi)
K&L Gates (Chi)
Reed Smith (Chi)
Barack Ferrazano (Chi)
Baker & McKenzie (Chi)
Dykema Gossett (Chi)
Drinker Biddle (Chi)
Edwards Wildman Palmer (Chi)
Greenberg Traurig (Chi)

plus 5-10 top firms from wife's 'secondary' (think Dallas/Houston/Atlanta).


No Kirkland - Chicago? It seems like you've included a fair number of Chicago firms that have virtually nonexistent summer classes.

Do you think you want to do litigation or transactional?

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:12 pm

I figured I should pretty much write off V10... I think I am more interested in litigation.

Helmholtz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any thoughts on this bid list (in no particular order). Too aggressive? Conservative? Just right?

Paul Weiss (NY)
Milbank (NY)
WilmerHale (NY)
Ropes & Gray (NY)
Shearman (NY)
Jones Day (NY)
Cadwalader (NY)
Debevoise (NY)
Stroock & Stroock (NY)
Fried Frank (NY)
Freshfields (NY)
Kirkland & Ellis (NY)
Dechert (NY)
Proskauer Rose (NY)
Paul Hastings (NY)
Pillsbury (NY)
Curtis Mallet Prevost (NY)
Sheppard Mullin (NY)
Bryan Cave (NY)
Cooley (NY)
Sidley (Chi)
Mayer Brown (Chi)
Skadden (Chi)
Latham (Chi)
Jenner & Block (Chi)
Dentons (Chi)
Katten Muchin (Chi)
Winston & Strawn (Chi)
Chapman & Cutler (Chi)
Schiff Hardin (Chi)
Foley (Chi)
McGuire Woods (Chi)
K&L Gates (Chi)
Reed Smith (Chi)
Barack Ferrazano (Chi)
Baker & McKenzie (Chi)
Dykema Gossett (Chi)
Drinker Biddle (Chi)
Edwards Wildman Palmer (Chi)
Greenberg Traurig (Chi)

plus 5-10 top firms from wife's 'secondary' (think Dallas/Houston/Atlanta).


No Kirkland - Chicago? It seems like you've included a fair number of Chicago firms that have virtually nonexistent summer classes.

Do you think you want to do litigation or transactional?

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Re: Chicago Transfer... OCI recommendations

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I figured I should pretty much write off V10... I think I am more interested in litigation.

Helmholtz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any thoughts on this bid list (in no particular order). Too aggressive? Conservative? Just right?

Paul Weiss (NY)
Milbank (NY)
WilmerHale (NY)
Ropes & Gray (NY)
Shearman (NY)
Jones Day (NY)
Cadwalader (NY)
Debevoise (NY)
Stroock & Stroock (NY)
Fried Frank (NY)
Freshfields (NY)
Kirkland & Ellis (NY)
Dechert (NY)
Proskauer Rose (NY)
Paul Hastings (NY)
Pillsbury (NY)
Curtis Mallet Prevost (NY)
Sheppard Mullin (NY)
Bryan Cave (NY)
Cooley (NY)
Sidley (Chi)
Mayer Brown (Chi)
Skadden (Chi)
Latham (Chi)
Jenner & Block (Chi)
Dentons (Chi)
Katten Muchin (Chi)
Winston & Strawn (Chi)
Chapman & Cutler (Chi)
Schiff Hardin (Chi)
Foley (Chi)
McGuire Woods (Chi)
K&L Gates (Chi)
Reed Smith (Chi)
Barack Ferrazano (Chi)
Baker & McKenzie (Chi)
Dykema Gossett (Chi)
Drinker Biddle (Chi)
Edwards Wildman Palmer (Chi)
Greenberg Traurig (Chi)

plus 5-10 top firms from wife's 'secondary' (think Dallas/Houston/Atlanta).


No Kirkland - Chicago? It seems like you've included a fair number of Chicago firms that have virtually nonexistent summer classes.

Do you think you want to do litigation or transactional?


I'll PM you.




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