Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

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What to do?

Stick it out.
33
67%
Jump ship.
16
33%
 
Total votes: 49

Rirruto
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:38 pm

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby Rirruto » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:55 pm

I'm not sure your question should really be grade-centric. As noted, DA/PD aren't as concerned with grades. Also, because you've got essentially 2 years worth of grades left due to how hiring works in this part of the field, dragging your way up to median shouldn't be that hard.

I'd be more worried if you weren't able to find clerkships or clinics to do. You really want to be doing something every semester in addition to summer work. Experience is to a DA's office what grades are to biglaw. You really need to have it or else you get really, really lucky.

Because you're sort of interested in a mixed bag of stuff, I'd recommend that (if you decide to stay) you pick something out and ride that horse until you graduate. Ideally, you'd get a clerkship at a prosecutor/pd/legal aid office and stay there until graduation. Then, you'll have a decent shot to get on at that office if they hire, or you'll have a lot of well-connected contacts if you need to find your way into a small firm or something. My bosses are extremely into helping their clerks find jobs, but we're a really small office so that may not be the case everywhere.

So I wouldn't freak out about grades as much as I would freak out about how weird the hiring is in the areas of law you're interested in anyway.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:05 pm

Rirruto wrote:I'm not sure your question should really be grade-centric. As noted, DA/PD aren't as concerned with grades. Also, because you've got essentially 2 years worth of grades left due to how hiring works in this part of the field, dragging your way up to median shouldn't be that hard.

I'd be more worried if you weren't able to find clerkships or clinics to do. You really want to be doing something every semester in addition to summer work. Experience is to a DA's office what grades are to biglaw. You really need to have it or else you get really, really lucky.

Because you're sort of interested in a mixed bag of stuff, I'd recommend that (if you decide to stay) you pick something out and ride that horse until you graduate. Ideally, you'd get a clerkship at a prosecutor/pd/legal aid office and stay there until graduation. Then, you'll have a decent shot to get on at that office if they hire, or you'll have a lot of well-connected contacts if you need to find your way into a small firm or something. My bosses are extremely into helping their clerks find jobs, but we're a really small office so that may not be the case everywhere.

So I wouldn't freak out about grades as much as I would freak out about how weird the hiring is in the areas of law you're interested in anyway.


OP here. Thanks so much. I'm doing a yearlong child advocacy clinic next year, which should help in showing commitment to public service and gaining practical experience.

Anonymous User
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Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:09 pm

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:OP I was in court last week. Other side is a major big law firm. Associate graduated from state law school in 07 (this u Wisconsin type school) middle of class, got state law job and developed expertise in particular area of admin law, then lateraled to big law firm in '11. It is possible to go this route--good luck.


so wait, after you've been in practice for a few years, employers normally don't ask for transcripts?

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:23 pm

UnamSanctam wrote::lol: :lol: :lol:


Funny thing is, this "chat board" the Dean of Career Services told me to avoid has been as much if not more helpful than Career Services. If I wanted someone to pat me on the back and tell me I was special and that everything will be OK, I can talk to my mummy anytime. :P

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Bronte
Posts: 2128
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:44 pm

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby Bronte » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Lol, are you asking if sirpartner82 is insane or are you making a reference to the LEGENDARY TLS poster "areyouinsane" (who works in sh*tlaw)


Respect, man. Respect.

User avatar
stillwater
Posts: 3811
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:59 pm

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby stillwater » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:00 am

Bronte wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Lol, are you asking if sirpartner82 is insane or are you making a reference to the LEGENDARY TLS poster "areyouinsane" (who works in sh*tlaw)


Respect, man. Respect.


the fastlane to shitlaw happens faster and more suddenly than you think.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:05 am

^Wasn't areyouinsane banned?

I'm def. not above dog bite, cat scratch, DUI, ambulance chasin' shit at this point. :lol:

NYstate
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby NYstate » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:^Wasn't areyouinsane banned?

I'm def. not above dog bite, cat scratch, DUI, ambulance chasin' shit at this point. :lol:


I think areyouinsane was banned for posting repeatedly in the school specific threads.

If you are really willing to work these jobs, do you have any data on how to land one of them or how much they pay in your market? Just because you are willing to do this work, it doesn't mean someone will hire you to do it or that you can get your clients to pay.

I just see that so many areas are already saturated with lawyers. Where do you think you will get work?

Anonymous User
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Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:32 am

As a 3L who did OK in 1L year, even got OCI interviews, but no job, I'm telling you, as it stands right now if you did not get good grades + a job in the 1L year, you will be fucked hard and devastated on your third year. Imagine being jobless and having 200,000 in debt. Don't do this to yourself. Get out.

NYstate
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby NYstate » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:47 am

I have another question maybe you can find data on. I realize government and PD/ DA may not care about grades. But so they have a floor? Can you find out if these organizations will hire from the bottom quarter if you have experience and references?

Also maybe find out if these jobs hire before graduating and bar passage? Does your school hire students on fellowships so they can take unpaid jobs for a year of experience?

Try to gather as much actual market specific data as you can. As you do so you will also be networking, so that's a plus.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:39 am

NYstate wrote:I have another question maybe you can find data on. I realize government and PD/ DA may not care about grades. But so they have a floor? Can you find out if these organizations will hire from the bottom quarter if you have experience and references?

Also maybe find out if these jobs hire before graduating and bar passage? Does your school hire students on fellowships so they can take unpaid jobs for a year of experience?

Try to gather as much actual market specific data as you can. As you do so you will also be networking, so that's a plus.


^Good thinking, thanks for the suggestions.

I have no idea if the DAs offices near my hometown and school have a "floor" per se (If they did, I'd assume it's only like a 3.0ish? Just speculating). I've been told on the Prosecution/PD Gunner page that they are not prestige-whoring a la Manhattan DA and value relevant experience/clinics/commitment to public service over grades/LR.

Yeah, the major DAs officer near my hometown and law school hire a "class" of recent grads before graduating/bar passage. Major PD near my school announced hiring freeze, but PDs will largely look askance at me because of my experience advocating for crime victims. My school does hire back a small number of folks for short-term (1-2 year) PI fellowships.

NYstate
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby NYstate » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:
NYstate wrote:I have another question maybe you can find data on. I realize government and PD/ DA may not care about grades. But so they have a floor? Can you find out if these organizations will hire from the bottom quarter if you have experience and references?

Also maybe find out if these jobs hire before graduating and bar passage? Does your school hire students on fellowships so they can take unpaid jobs for a year of experience?

Try to gather as much actual market specific data as you can. As you do so you will also be networking, so that's a plus.


^Good thinking, thanks for the suggestions.

I have no idea if the DAs offices near my hometown and school have a "floor" per se (If they did, I'd assume it's only like a 3.0ish? Just speculating). I've been told on the Prosecution/PD Gunner page that they are not prestige-whoring a la Manhattan DA and value relevant experience/clinics/commitment to public service over grades/LR.

Yeah, the major DAs officer near my hometown and law school hire a "class" of recent grads before graduating/bar passage. Major PD near my school announced hiring freeze, but PDs will largely look askance at me because of my experience advocating for crime victims. My school does hire back a small number of folks for short-term (1-2 year) PI fellowships.


I know you posted the stuff about the DAs office and PD before in this thread. Find out all about these fellowships because you may need to compete for one. Are you sure that PD don't like victim advocates? Find out for sure . Also find out for sure what the DA looks for, what clinics, what recommendations. Just because NY has high and competitive standards it doesn't mean that simply doing child advocacy is going to be sufficient in your market.

You need to get away from generalities and into specifics. If I were you I would make contact and be upfront with what you are looking for and find specific ideas on how to get there- courses, jobs, externships, extra volunteer work, getting to know the professors that can help you. Be sure to start looking at the school fellowships as your backup plan if you need one.Then make a plan and execute it.

Maybe it is just me- but I still don't know if you understand the terrible job market you face. You need connections, experience and dedication to get a job. You also need to focus . You chose child advocacy- is this the best path to the job you want?

.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:59 am

Yes, PD offices in general tend to be suspicious of folks that have experience in DAs offices or victim advocacy, according to plenty of current ADAs/PDs/interns at DA/PD offices in the "Prosecution/PD Gunner" thread on here. And vice versa. It's stupid, but it's a bias that certain applicants would face.

The criminal justice clinic at my school is reserved for 3Ls, so I plan to do it then, but in the mean time, I will immerse myself in clinics/ externships/pro bono work, take relevant coursework (trial ad, evidence, prosecutorial ethics, etc.) and hustle with networking. And how is child advocacy unrelated to prosecution? How about ADAs who prosecute DV and child abuse/neglect cases?




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