Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.

What to do?

Stick it out.
33
67%
Jump ship.
16
33%
 
Total votes: 49

Anonymous User
Posts: 273425
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:46 am

I've never heard of someone hanging their own shingle right outta law school.

User avatar
rouser
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:23 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby rouser » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:I've never heard of someone hanging their own shingle right outta law school.

Guy from UT made a good thread about it: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=210075
He's an ambulance grinder though.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22859
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:I've never heard of someone hanging their own shingle right outta law school.

People do this all the time. The assumption is that when you're looking at employment stats for TTT/TTTTs and you see lots of people in the 2-10 person firm range, quite a few of these are new grads banding together to create their own "firm" because they couldn't get anything else. Whether that assumption is fair or not, it reflects the reality that some people start their own firm right out of school. (Usually from lower-ranked schools.) I know if someone from the year after me (not my school) who hung up a shingle.

NYstate
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby NYstate » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:16 am

How much is government hiring in your area? How many people does the PD/DA hire?

I suggested small firms because they may not care so much about grades.

I think you should very seriously consider dropping out, but I don't think you will. be prepared to leave law for another career if you need to.

I hope things work out for you but I still think you are unrealistic about the market.

RodneyRuxin
Posts: 455
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:08 pm

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby RodneyRuxin » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:0Ls are not permitted to post in the Legal Employment forums (see the rules)


Because everyone follows the rules, right? Just like you follow the rules on anonymous posting?

NYstate
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby NYstate » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Made virtually same post on JD Underground--folks are wayyyy more pessimistic on there, haha.

--LinkRemoved--


I read that thread. There are great points there as far as your being unfocused and the need to chose either PD or DA.

Any family connections at all?

The problem with TLS is that law students don't have a sense of the real job market that exists outsideof biglaw or clerkships. There are few threads by grads who have struggled after graduating. A few of these threads get shut down by the OP because they are called flame or the OP is blamed for poor interviewing skills.
Don't look to TLS for realistic advice on the actual job market.

On a regular 10 repayment plan 80,000 is about a grand a month just for loans. Is that so easily manageable ? You can use PAYE but that stretches it out 20 years.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273425
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:56 pm

NYstate wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Made virtually same post on JD Underground--folks are wayyyy more pessimistic on there, haha.

--LinkRemoved--


I read that thread. There are great points there as far as your being unfocused and the need to chose either PD or DA.

Any family connections at all?

The problem with TLS is that law students don't have a sense of the real job market that exists outsideof biglaw or clerkships. There are few threads by grads who have struggled after graduating. A few of these threads get shut down by the OP because they are called flame or the OP is blamed for poor interviewing skills.
Don't look to TLS for realistic advice on the actual job market.

On a regular 10 repayment plan 80,000 is about a grand a month just for loans. Is that so easily manageable ? You can use PAYE but that stretches it out 20 years.


Not that many lawyers in my family. One hung her own shingle with a real estate practice, the other doing BigLaw in DC.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273425
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:01 pm

NYstate wrote:How much is government hiring in your area? How many people does the PD/DA hire?

I suggested small firms because they may not care so much about grades.

I think you should very seriously consider dropping out, but I don't think you will. be prepared to leave law for another career if you need to.

I hope things work out for you but I still think you are unrealistic about the market.


The major DA offices around my home city and school hire a regular "class" of new ADAs every year; I've been told by folks in the Prosecution/PD Gunner page that they are not grades-conscious but look more to demonstrated commitment to that sort of work. The PD office in the major city near my school just announced a hiring freeze. Not sure about the PD offices near my home city.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273425
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:02 pm

rouser wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I've never heard of someone hanging their own shingle right outta law school.

Guy from UT made a good thread about it: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=210075
He's an ambulance grinder though.


Not above ambulance-chasing at this point--frankly, I can't be above anything at this point given my unenviable position, haha.

sirpartner82
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:24 pm

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby sirpartner82 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:13 pm

People do this all the time. The assumption is that when you're looking at employment stats for TTT/TTTTs and you see lots of people in the 2-10 person firm range, quite a few of these are new grads banding together to create their own "firm" because they couldn't get anything else. Whether that assumption is fair or not, it reflects the reality that some people start their own firm right out of school. (Usually from lower-ranked schools.) I know if someone from the year after me (not my school) who hung up a shingle.



Trouble is, the best way to get new clients is to become a network attorney for pre-paid legal plan members. But most of the decent plans (Hyatt is one of the best) require 7 years of bar admission before they'll affiliate with you:

http://www.legalplans.com/Advantages/At ... teria.aspx

Even as a network attorney, the fees are about half market rate. But at least payment is guaranteed, since the check comes right from the plan. Most of the solo attorneys in my town (many of whom are in their 50s and 60s) do a good bit of work for/thru these plans. Very few people have any money of their own to pay private attorneys, and if they do have $$$, they'll likely select an experienced, older attorney from their peer group rather than a bunch of clowns who graduated lawschool last week and have no idea what they're doing.

HTH

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22859
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:40 pm

sirpartner82 wrote:Trouble is, the best way to get new clients is to become a network attorney for pre-paid legal plan members. But most of the decent plans (Hyatt is one of the best) require 7 years of bar admission before they'll affiliate with you:

http://www.legalplans.com/Advantages/At ... teria.aspx

Even as a network attorney, the fees are about half market rate. But at least payment is guaranteed, since the check comes right from the plan. Most of the solo attorneys in my town (many of whom are in their 50s and 60s) do a good bit of work for/thru these plans. Very few people have any money of their own to pay private attorneys, and if they do have $$$, they'll likely select an experienced, older attorney from their peer group rather than a bunch of clowns who graduated lawschool last week and have no idea what they're doing.

HTH

Oh, I definitely didn't mean to suggest that hanging out a shingle right out of school is a good idea or likely to lead to success; just that people try it all the time.

User avatar
stillwater
Posts: 3811
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:59 pm

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby stillwater » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:10 pm

yer fucked. drop out. its the prudent move. otherwise you could end up holding the pail in 2 years with nothign to do.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273425
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:35 pm

Bump. Any last minute insights before I shut down the poll?

sirpartner82
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:24 pm

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby sirpartner82 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:06 pm

Dropping out is a no-brainer here, OP. I sincerely hope you bail, and do so ASAP. This industry is a complete joke, glutted beyond all reason by hordes of TTToilets churning out unemployable losers year after year after year....

That JD certainly won't help at all with any non-legal jobs, you'll simply be a janitor/truck driver/gutter cleaner/fast food fry-cook with a J.D. It's about as impressive a credential as having a fishing license nowadays. No other careers or industries have the slightest bit of interest in (or respect for) the holder of a JD. All it is is a giant flashing strobe light that you weren't smart enough to handle math and science, and thus likely not smart enough to work for or handle the work that their company does. Let's face it: law is a joke, even at the so-called "biglaw" levels, where corporations are simply paying for partners' juice and connections, not any sort of "quality" work metric. Legal work is mostly mindless cut n' paste and excruciating boredom/tedium. Amazing that anyone would want to enter a field populated with such extreme levels of dullness and intellectual excrement/verbal sewage.

hlsperson1111
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:10 pm

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby hlsperson1111 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:14 am

sirpartner82 wrote:Dropping out is a no-brainer here, OP. I sincerely hope you bail, and do so ASAP. This industry is a complete joke, glutted beyond all reason by hordes of TTToilets churning out unemployable losers year after year after year....

That JD certainly won't help at all with any non-legal jobs, you'll simply be a janitor/truck driver/gutter cleaner/fast food fry-cook with a J.D. It's about as impressive a credential as having a fishing license nowadays. No other careers or industries have the slightest bit of interest in (or respect for) the holder of a JD. All it is is a giant flashing strobe light that you weren't smart enough to handle math and science, and thus likely not smart enough to work for or handle the work that their company does. Let's face it: law is a joke, even at the so-called "biglaw" levels, where corporations are simply paying for partners' juice and connections, not any sort of "quality" work metric. Legal work is mostly mindless cut n' paste and excruciating boredom/tedium. Amazing that anyone would want to enter a field populated with such extreme levels of dullness and intellectual excrement/verbal sewage.


what a Sad Situation

User avatar
Danger Zone
Posts: 7310
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:36 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby Danger Zone » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:15 am

hlsperson1111 wrote:
sirpartner82 wrote:Dropping out is a no-brainer here, OP. I sincerely hope you bail, and do so ASAP. This industry is a complete joke, glutted beyond all reason by hordes of TTToilets churning out unemployable losers year after year after year....

That JD certainly won't help at all with any non-legal jobs, you'll simply be a janitor/truck driver/gutter cleaner/fast food fry-cook with a J.D. It's about as impressive a credential as having a fishing license nowadays. No other careers or industries have the slightest bit of interest in (or respect for) the holder of a JD. All it is is a giant flashing strobe light that you weren't smart enough to handle math and science, and thus likely not smart enough to work for or handle the work that their company does. Let's face it: law is a joke, even at the so-called "biglaw" levels, where corporations are simply paying for partners' juice and connections, not any sort of "quality" work metric. Legal work is mostly mindless cut n' paste and excruciating boredom/tedium. Amazing that anyone would want to enter a field populated with such extreme levels of dullness and intellectual excrement/verbal sewage.


what a Sad Situation

Are you insane?

NYstate
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby NYstate » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:44 am

Drop out.

Also read the Vale of Tears thread. And then read it again. And then read it again focusing on the deep emotional and psychological stress of unemployment after graduation.

If you want to help people there are many ways to do so, you don't need a law degree. Don't forget that PI hiring is competitive. I recently did a Pro Bono immigration matter and two of the attorneys from the agency were relatively recent Columbia grads. They were committed to pro Bono but their credentials were better than yours.

It looks like your best shot might be as a DA, but is that what you truly want?

If you can't drop out, take a leave for a year. Find something else. Once you are out of lawschool you may see how narrow your focus has been.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273425
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:31 am

NYstate wrote:It looks like your best shot might be as a DA, but is that what you truly want?


Yeah, I'm actually way more interested in DA than PD. Since I'm doing U-Visas this summer at an immigration legal aid society, I'm in frequent contact with the local DAs office (which, I've been told in the Prosecution/PD Gunner thread on here, isn't prestige-hungry a la Manhattan DA).

Regardless of grades, I'd have trouble finding work at any PD office thanks to extensive work/volunteer experience on behalf of crime victims...

Anonymous User
Posts: 273425
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:31 am

Danger Zone wrote:
hlsperson1111 wrote:
sirpartner82 wrote:Dropping out is a no-brainer here, OP. I sincerely hope you bail, and do so ASAP. This industry is a complete joke, glutted beyond all reason by hordes of TTToilets churning out unemployable losers year after year after year....

That JD certainly won't help at all with any non-legal jobs, you'll simply be a janitor/truck driver/gutter cleaner/fast food fry-cook with a J.D. It's about as impressive a credential as having a fishing license nowadays. No other careers or industries have the slightest bit of interest in (or respect for) the holder of a JD. All it is is a giant flashing strobe light that you weren't smart enough to handle math and science, and thus likely not smart enough to work for or handle the work that their company does. Let's face it: law is a joke, even at the so-called "biglaw" levels, where corporations are simply paying for partners' juice and connections, not any sort of "quality" work metric. Legal work is mostly mindless cut n' paste and excruciating boredom/tedium. Amazing that anyone would want to enter a field populated with such extreme levels of dullness and intellectual excrement/verbal sewage.


what a Sad Situation

Are you insane?


Lol, are you asking if sirpartner82 is insane or are you making a reference to the TLS poster "areyouinsane" (who works in sh*tlaw)

User avatar
UnamSanctam
Posts: 7169
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:17 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby UnamSanctam » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Danger Zone wrote:
hlsperson1111 wrote:
sirpartner82 wrote:Dropping out is a no-brainer here, OP. I sincerely hope you bail, and do so ASAP. This industry is a complete joke, glutted beyond all reason by hordes of TTToilets churning out unemployable losers year after year after year....

That JD certainly won't help at all with any non-legal jobs, you'll simply be a janitor/truck driver/gutter cleaner/fast food fry-cook with a J.D. It's about as impressive a credential as having a fishing license nowadays. No other careers or industries have the slightest bit of interest in (or respect for) the holder of a JD. All it is is a giant flashing strobe light that you weren't smart enough to handle math and science, and thus likely not smart enough to work for or handle the work that their company does. Let's face it: law is a joke, even at the so-called "biglaw" levels, where corporations are simply paying for partners' juice and connections, not any sort of "quality" work metric. Legal work is mostly mindless cut n' paste and excruciating boredom/tedium. Amazing that anyone would want to enter a field populated with such extreme levels of dullness and intellectual excrement/verbal sewage.


what a Sad Situation

Are you insane?


Lol, are you asking if sirpartner82 is insane or are you making a reference to the TLS poster "areyouinsane" (who works in sh*tlaw)


Obviously the latter, but good use of anon bro.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273425
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:57 pm

OP here. Talked to Career Services today. They were well-meaning and supportive, but profoundly unhelpful..."The decision has to come from your heart". *barf*

User avatar
UnamSanctam
Posts: 7169
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:17 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby UnamSanctam » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Talked to Career Services today. They were well-meaning and supportive, but profoundly unhelpful..."The decision has to come from your heart". *barf*


So they're saying drop out.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273425
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:05 pm

^No fucking clue...she provided a nice general overview of the landscape of PI/Gov hiring but unhelpful advice as to my prospects in particular (although I don't blame her, since PI/Gov hiring *is* more holistic than BigLaw hiring). She also exhorted me to "avoid chat boards when making up your mind." :lol:

User avatar
UnamSanctam
Posts: 7169
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:17 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby UnamSanctam » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:49 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Hutz_and_Goodman
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:42 am

Re: Yet another "should I drop out?" thread...:sigh:

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:10 pm

OP I was in court last week. Other side is a major big law firm. Associate graduated from state law school in 07 (this u Wisconsin type school) middle of class, got state law job and developed expertise in particular area of admin law, then lateraled to big law firm in '11. It is possible to go this route--good luck.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.