2013 UVA OGI Thread

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:12 pm

sprezz wrote:edited to delete the quote. enjoy charlottesville!


I appreciate it.

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby sundance95 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What Boies offices go to UVA OGI?

last year's interviewer was from their Armonk office. However, unlike many firms, Boies actually considered interviewees applying to offices other than the home office of the interviewer--they called me back to their Oakland office.

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:43 pm

What firms having their DC office coming for west coast markets (namely CA) are long shots to seriously callback many qualified candidates who would be called back if the CA office came?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby sundance95 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What firms having their DC office coming for west coast markets (namely CA) are long shots to seriously callback many qualified candidates who would be called back if the CA office came?

This is tough to answer because what you are really asking is whether the firm utilizes a global or office-specific hiring proess, which is pretty impossible to know unless you work for that firm's HR dep't. And there are other factors: CA firms will naturally bend towards west coast schools due to loyalty, and it may be that even if the person you interview with loves you and goes to bat for you with the CA office, they won't have the juice to get you a CB.

I will say that a few firms stood out as not being serious.

Nixon Peabody was a joke. The interviewing partner (from their Boston office) took a 15 minute phone call during our 20 minute screener, asked one question, said that she didn't know what the SF office was looking for or whether they were hiring, then handed me a softball and thanked me for coming. I would assume hiring is office specific with them.

Wilson Sonsini was also tough. The partner they sent (DC office) was perhaps the most awkward person I had ever met--a nice enough guy, but no social skills, but a true back-office writer type. He would stare down at my resume for an achingly long time, like 30 seconds, then ask a yes/no question about a trivial line item. After the second time he did this I just took the lead of the interview, and actually had this guy smiling by the end, which seemed impossible at the start. But the point is that I seriously, seriously doubt that guy could have convinced anyone in CA to hire a given student.

I found that firms that at least had sent *a* CA representative, whether from LA/SD/SF, tended to do a good job of getting the relevant offices the information they needed to make CB determinations. But if the interviewer was from the East Coast, that was not a good sign. And that makes intuitive sense--the firm clearly didn't think it was worth it to fly someone out to interview you and a bunch of your colleagues in the first place.

FWIW, the interviews I described were preselects.

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:07 pm

Did you get called back to Nixon/Wilson?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby sundance95 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:12 pm

No.

Also, please delete quoting if you don't mind--I may remove after OGI season is over.

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:07 pm

Sure, same duder. Would whether DC is a main office help - i.e. maybe the LA office doesn't have hiring clout at some jointz?

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby 5ky » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:42 pm

When do preselects come out? I gotta be prepared for this thread tripling in length

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:46 pm

5ky wrote:When do preselects come out? I gotta be prepared for this thread tripling in length

Brah, §L is getting more preselects than all the other ones do combined. It's already known. Our resumes don't even say UVa. They just say LitiGators c/o 2015.

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Did you get called back to Nixon/Wilson?


I would add Pillsbury and Hogan Lovells to that list. Neither are big players on the West Coast, but I had similar experiences with them to the above poster's experiences with Nixon and WSGR.

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby envisciguy » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:50 pm

5ky wrote:When do preselects come out? I gotta be prepared for this thread tripling in length


Saturday the 27th I think.

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Did you get called back to Nixon/Wilson?


I would add Pillsbury and Hogan Lovells to that list. Neither are big players on the West Coast, but I had similar experiences with them to the above poster's experiences with Nixon and WSGR.


Same poster. Is Fenwick doing a resume collect again this year? If so, I would consider bidding the SV office if any of you have an interest in that sort of work. They actually do interview/callback people out of UVA that way, though I don't know anyone who is actually going there in my class.

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby sundance95 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Sure, same duder. Would whether DC is a main office help - i.e. maybe the LA office doesn't have hiring clout at some jointz?

Maybe. That's the problem--it's impossible to generalize b/c things can get so firm specific. FWIW, my instincts say it would not help unless the firm is very a top-down firm (like Boies).

Also Fenwick did do outreach through resume requests, unfortunately they moved so late that I had already accepted somewhere else (and I waited quite a long time before accepting). I was pretty interested in them, so that was a bit of a bummer--hopefully they will move more quickly this time around.

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:38 pm

sundance95 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Sure, same duder. Would whether DC is a main office help - i.e. maybe the LA office doesn't have hiring clout at some jointz?

Maybe. That's the problem--it's impossible to generalize b/c things can get so firm specific. FWIW, my instincts say it would not help unless the firm is very a top-down firm (like Boies).

Also Fenwick did do outreach through resume requests, unfortunately they moved so late that I had already accepted somewhere else (and I waited quite a long time before accepting). I was pretty interested in them, so that was a bit of a bummer--hopefully they will move more quickly this time around.

Yeah, we seem to only have 4 real LA powerhouses coming - Latham has a big enough SA presence to be a powerhouse. I did bid on every LA office. I sacrificed some smaller NY firms, but hopefully I'll still come away with 23 interviews and will be unawkward enough to pull 1 of them. However, if LA is really just a pipe dream for all these other places and they have their mind made up to 99% not hire UVa, I do regret not tossing in some big DC classes or some larger firms around NYC like NJ/PHI. I don't really have a strong geographic preference if it's not LA - just want a jerb.

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Yeah, we seem to only have 4 real LA powerhouses coming - Latham has a big enough SA presence to be a powerhouse. I did bid on every LA office. I sacrificed some smaller NY firms, but hopefully I'll still come away with 23 interviews and will be unawkward enough to pull 1 of them. However, if LA is really just a pipe dream for all these other places and they have their mind made up to 99% not hire UVa, I do regret not tossing in some big DC classes or some larger firms around NYC like NJ/PHI. I don't really have a strong geographic preference if it's not LA - just want a jerb.


If you get a lot of preselects/alternates, I wouldn't worry too much. However, keep in mind that a lot of the firms in LA will have small summer classes, which means that a preselect at a firm in LA might be less likely to turn into a callback than an alternate or a lottery interview with a NYC firm calling back 10+ people from UVA. That never occurred to me until I started interviewing with LA firms taking 2 or 3 SAs that preselected me only to find out later that those firms called back 2, 1, or even 0 UVA students.

One strategy that could mitigate some of your risk if you get fewer than 23 preselects+lottery, and you have a choice between special requesting LA firms with small classes or NYC firms with large classes, is to use your special requests on the NYC firms. Such a strategy would reduce your chances of ending up in LA, but it might increase your chances of getting a job, which should be the priority.

Hopefully this doesn't come across as overly pessimistic. I know a number of people that did well in LA out of UVA. I just think it is important to keep this stuff in mind and adjust accordingly if you are having a difficult time getting callbacks from LA firms.

DISCLAIMER: Please don't freak out if you don't get a lot of preselects. I'm talking exclusively about the LA market, and the system will work itself out even if you only end up with a couple of preselects on the 27th.

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:27 pm

Serious q on dress shoes:

Creased okay? Have a pair of ~80-100 dollar dress shoes I have only worn about 10x but they're 2.5 years old, and got creased after walking a mile in them. Would some polish be okay? I figure at this point if I were getting a new pair, it'd be worth it to just go all out and get a nice pair of AE to last me for a decade. However, the black cap toe dress shoe is something you really only wear for law related stuff - even a wedding, formal event permits more style - so I wouldn't wear them again till summer formal events.

I'm used to changing gym shoes after every 300 miles, and casual/fancier shoes after every 150 so after maybe 20 miles seems like such a waste.

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby sprezz » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:59 pm

creased should be fine, unless it's seriously abnormal creasing (i realize that's vague, sorry). calf creases, that's normal.

you actually want to be really careful of applying certain types of polish to creased areas because waxier polishes will leave residue after they dry that you can't really get at in the crease. go extremely lightly on the creases. if you've polished the creases before and there's buildup, you may need to buy some saphir renomat and give them some TLC.

if the leather is *cracking*, you can make a pass at it with leather conditioner, but it may be too late. a cheaper replacement option than an AE for someone who would rather not spend that much on a black captoe is this thing right here and it's worth it when on sale (<120).

nordstrom's got park avenues on sale right now for $229 which is as cheap as they get anywhere in first quality. allen edmonds stores will price match.

to help prevent/minimize creasing in the future, apply some leather conditioner to new shoes before wear, break them in on carpet, and keep shoe trees in 'em when your feet aren't.

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Serious q on dress shoes:

Creased okay? Have a pair of ~80-100 dollar dress shoes I have only worn about 10x but they're 2.5 years old, and got creased after walking a mile in them. Would some polish be okay? I figure at this point if I were getting a new pair, it'd be worth it to just go all out and get a nice pair of AE to last me for a decade. However, the black cap toe dress shoe is something you really only wear for law related stuff - even a wedding, formal event permits more style - so I wouldn't wear them again till summer formal events.

I'm used to changing gym shoes after every 300 miles, and casual/fancier shoes after every 150 so after maybe 20 miles seems like such a waste.


I would recommend getting a new pair of dress shoes. Either get the AE Park Ave's from Nordstrom's or hunt down some good condition AE's on ebay. Unfortunately, there's not much middle ground between cheap shoes and AE's these days. Many of the shoes that companies like J&M, Florsheim, and Cole Haan are putting out are just overpriced for what they are. Speaking from first hand experience, I regret the last pair of J&M's I purchased - they didn't last a year and were cheap corrected-grain leather, despite costing ~70% the price of AE's.

The problem with a $80-$100 shoes is that the leather is a cheap, corrected grain leather. Corrected grain leather is very prone to creasing and, once worn, is pretty hard to restore. Although the advice of using saphir renovateur would be appropriate for a full-grain leather shoe, it would just be a waste of an extremely expensive shoe care product to use it on an $80 dress shoe.

A couple notes:
- All calfskin shoes will have some creasing. This is normal. Corrected grain will have more creasing than full-grain. To minimize creasing, you need to use shoe trees. Shoe trees are most important in the 6-12 hours after you wear your shoes (they absorb all the sweat/moisture from wearing your shoes all day).

- There's no reason that you can't dress down a shoe like the AE Park Ave. Sure, you shouldn't wear it with jeans or khakis, but it is perfectly appropriate with for business casual with a pair of charcoal grey or light grey slacks.

- No single sole dress shoes is going to hold up but so well with lots of walking. Leather sole shoes designed for walking generally will be less formal and have a double leather sole (compare the AE MacAllister - dressier wingtip with single leather sole, with the AE McTavish - more casual wingtip with double leather sole). If you're going to be walking a lot, then you should change shoes.

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby sundance95 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

sprezz wrote:nordstrom's got park avenues on sale right now for $229 which is as cheap as they get anywhere in first quality. allen edmonds stores will price match.

EDITED: Nevermind, figured it out. All of you about to do OCI, I would be all over this--that is a hell of a deal.

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:23 pm

Did anyone targeting CA have any luck at the BADCF or OTIP? Or were most of your interviews through mass mail and networking? Especially interested in past students who were around median...

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby desertlaw » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Did anyone targeting CA have any luck at the BADCF or OTIP? Or were most of your interviews through mass mail and networking? Especially interested in past students who were around median...


BADCF? OTIP? What are those things? Plenty of Cali people get their 2L gigs through OGI, the rest it seems more like networking and mass-mailing.

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:30 pm

desertlaw wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Did anyone targeting CA have any luck at the BADCF or OTIP? Or were most of your interviews through mass mail and networking? Especially interested in past students who were around median...


BADCF? OTIP? What are those things? Plenty of Cali people get their 2L gigs through OGI, the rest it seems more like networking and mass-mailing.


I think the above poster is referring to the Bay Area Diversity Career Fair and the On Tour Interview Program. The latter is a program done in conjunction with Duke, Georgetown, and Northwestern, and it has firms interviewing in SF and LA.

FWIW, I don't know anyone who got their job through either program, but I do know of UVA people who got callbacks through OTIP.

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:47 pm

Is getting OTIP interviews predictive of getting OGI interviews. Scored 8 OTIP pre-selects. Can I just chill now?

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is getting OTIP interviews predictive of getting OGI interviews. Scored 8 OTIP pre-selects. Can I just chill now?


Not necessarily. It depends on the quality of the applicant pool for OTIP as compared to the quality of the applicant pool at OGI, which you probably won't be able to discern as an applicant yourself.

This is just my opinion as one person who did OTIP, but I think there is a slight gap between the expectations of firms doing OTIP and the quality of the applicant pool. I think a lot of firms go into OTIP thinking they are either going to see students with top grades from each of the 4 schools or they are going to see students with a really focused interest on that market/firm. I suspect firms see few of the former because students with top grades will be less inclined to shell out the cash to fly out and see these firms when they are confident about getting jobs through OGI. I also think firms see few of the latter because the type of people that do OTIP, myself included, are the type that want to have all their bases covered, which results in an applicant pool that is taking more of a shot-gun approach than these firms expect. Another possibility is that since these firms aren't serious enough to come to OGI in the first place, they aren't going to be serious about giving callbacks to students at OTIP. However, I doubt this is the case since I know that firms give callbacks and offers out of the program (Although I said I didn't know of anyone who got their job through OTIP, I do know at least two or three people that got offers through OTIP but took jobs elsewhere).

I had more preselects than you between two OTIP cities, and I had a poor interview to callback ratio. However, my success in getting preselects at OTIP continued into OGI, and I had a much better interview to callback ratio at OGI. I'm not sure if it was because I became a better interviewer, which I admit is possible, or if I just had a more focused interest on the firms coming to OGI. I suspect it is a combination of the two.

All this to say the answer to your question is that it is impossible to tell, and you should know in a few days. However, I wouldn't relax until you have an offer in hand.

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Re: 2013 UVA OGI Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:33 pm

To the guy or girl above. Thanks, bro.




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