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 Post subject: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:11 am 
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I'm a 2L at a top-25 law school. 1L year I was in the top 1/3 of my class. Got a 1L SA at a large firm, got a 2L offer, and returned to the same firm for 2L summer.

I was already nervous this summer, because I feel like the stakes are so much higher, and then spring grades came out. I got a B- (below the curve) in a stupid elective that I just took because everyone is crazy about the professor. I worked my ass off, I was SHOCKED when I saw the grade. I put more effort into that class than any of my others this semester, and it's literally the worst grade I've ever gotten in my life.

I feel like this B- is just a glaring blemish on my transcript, especially given how recent it is. The rest of my grades were as good or better than 1L grades, and if it weren't for this B-, my cumulative GPA would be up around 0.2 from last year (instead it's down 0.07). New class rankings aren't out yet, but based on previous years I'd guess I'm now around top 40%

How much do people think this will affect my chances of getting an offer? Does anyone have a similar experience? What should I do to mitigate it? I've already emailed the professor to meet with him and look at my exam. Should I try to meet with someone on the hiring committee to explain that the grade doesn't reflect my abilities/work ethic? Sign up for 3L OCI? Start mass mailing firms now? If I do get no-offered because of the grade, what are the chances I'll ever get a legal job? How do I explain it?


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:35 am 
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Relax-- you'll almost certainly be fine. Your firm will have two summers' worth of work product from you to evaluate, and I doubt grades will factor into it much at all. Remember, firms are only interested in grades insofar as they represent a proxy for work product, and here they have a whole lot of actual work product to judge you by. In fact, there's a good chance they won't even look at your grades at all or even notice the B- or the (very mild) GPA drop. Plenty of 2Ls have that grade drop and I'd wager almost all of them received offers (assuming their firm offers close to 100% of summers). There's certainly no need to talk to a hiring partner about it unless they bring it up first.

That said, I'd sign up for 3L OCI and start considering firms to mass mail, but I'd have told you that even if you 4.0ed 2L year. Given the importance of getting that first job, you always want a plan B ready. But there's no need at all to freak out about it because of one B-.


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:45 am 
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I did sign up for 3L OCI yesterday (within hours of getting the grade). I'm going to spend some time polishing my resume, etc., as well. This was just a huge hit to me. I have never gotten a grade like this before. I know it's not the end of the world, but when there is so much constant pressure to do well, it's hard to feel like it's not.

I think my main concern is how bad it will look if I don't get an offer. No one will want to hire me if the firm that I spent two summers with dumps me. Aside from how much I like the firm (I do), I feel like it's this firm or bust... I can't imagine how I would recover from a no-offer after two summers.


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:30 pm 
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You aren't getting a job through 3L OCI (there are like three jobs and they aren't for those who get no-offered)

You are not getting no offered because of a drop in grades. No one cares except for Gibson Dunn and maybe a few others.

You may get no-offered for the following reasons:

1) You have social problems;

2) you do terrible work;

3) someone important randomly doesn't like you;

4) the firm over-hires (happened to a ton of people I went to school with last year-- everyone misread Fed QE for a market pickup, and then many had to drop people).


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:54 pm 
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You might want to put in a call to your school's counseling line because you have completely lost your grip on on reality. A 0.07 decrease is not a drop in grades. A single B- is not a meaningful blemish on your record.

If anything is going to get you no-offered it is your paranoia. A firm won't care about your grades. They will care if you can't rationally distinguish between an actual problem and one that is so remote that it is barely theoretical.

Relax this weekend so you don't take this attitude with you to work on Monday.


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:09 pm 
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TaipeiMort wrote:
You aren't getting a job through 3L OCI (there are like three jobs and they aren't for those who get no-offered)

How did you come up with the stat that there are less than half dozen 3L SA jobs available?


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:29 pm 
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Summerz wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:
You aren't getting a job through 3L OCI (there are like three jobs and they aren't for those who get no-offered)

How did you come up with the stat that there are less than half dozen 3L SA jobs available?


It doesn't really matter. What matters is that you won't be getting a job through 3L OCI.


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:37 pm 
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Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Summerz wrote:
How did you come up with the stat that there are less than half dozen 3L SA jobs available?


It doesn't really matter. What matters is that you won't be getting a job through 3L OCI.

Don't believe this poster... he has nothing to do with BL. He couldn't find a BL office with a map. His posts tell the story. Plus, he has been busted before.


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:19 pm 
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Sheffield wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Summerz wrote:
How did you come up with the stat that there are less than half dozen 3L SA jobs available?


It doesn't really matter. What matters is that you won't be getting a job through 3L OCI.

Don't believe this poster... he has nothing to do with BL. He couldn't find a BL office with a map. His posts tell the story. Plus, he has been busted before.

he's right though. 3L OCI is a joke; no one should be counting on it.

also, OP is seriously tripping balls. do you really think a b- will get you no offered? hell i just got a b- this semester as well and I didn't even give it a second thought. doing good work and fitting in during the summer is probably the most important factor in a getting an offer unless you're working at one of the few firms that actually care about 2L grades...at which point such a minimal drop would likely be inconsequential anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:56 pm 
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Lasers wrote:
Sheffield wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Summerz wrote:
How did you come up with the stat that there are less than half dozen 3L SA jobs available?
It doesn't really matter. What matters is that you won't be getting a job through 3L OCI.
Don't believe this poster... he has nothing to do with BL. He couldn't find a BL office with a map. His posts tell the story. Plus, he has been busted before.
3L OCI is a joke; no one should be counting on it.

Not disagreeing that 3L OCI is a challenge. Last week someone told me that there were only 14 OCI firms extending interviews to 3Ls. I am guessing that those firms are not holding onto more than a couple slots each…. as opposed to 2L OCI where a much larger number of firms might each have 10 to 20 slots open.

As far as grades, they probably come into play if one has to go the 3L route, but not so much if you are an SA on the way to being offered.


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:53 pm 
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Last year, ~82 hires were made nationally through 3L OCI. That's why you (generically speaking) won't get a job through OCI.

And I actually figured the OP had to be a flame.


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:12 pm 
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Sheffield wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Summerz wrote:
How did you come up with the stat that there are less than half dozen 3L SA jobs available?


It doesn't really matter. What matters is that you won't be getting a job through 3L OCI.

Don't believe this poster... he has nothing to do with BL. He couldn't find a BL office with a map. His posts tell the story. Plus, he has been busted before.


...

Except 3L OCI is a joke. 82 hires nationwide from 3L OCI last year according to NALP. The majority of those are people trading up/down. If you get no-offered, the odds of success at 3L OCI are nil. And the thought of someone at a T25 getting a job from 3L OCI is hilarious. Do firms even show up at 3L OCI for T25 schools? There were only a handful of firms that would even talk to 3Ls at CLS last year. There were armies of 3Ls running around and harassing them. The average number of interviews for 3L OCI at CLS is 1-4. So, average number of callbacks is probably 0. It was fucking terrifying.


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:23 am 
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I don’t have a dog in this fight but I read an article that there are a good number of well-paying firms hiring 3Ls. Admittedly, many of these firms are outside NAPA and mainly in larger cities with a tendency to be T14 oriented. When/if I find the link to the article, I’ll post it.


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:41 am 
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Summerz wrote:
I don’t have a dog in this fight but I read an article that there are a good number of well-paying firms hiring 3Ls. Admittedly, many of these firms are outside NAPA and mainly in larger cities with a tendency to be T14 oriented. When/if I find the link to the article, I’ll post it.

People said that last year too and the year before that

But there were 82 offers at NALP firms last year

I'll believe that shit when I see it

Assume 3L OCI is a joke


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:10 am 
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A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Last year, ~82 hires were made nationally through 3L OCI. That's why you (generically speaking) won't get a job through OCI.

And I actually figured the OP had to be a flame.

I know of 3 who landed on their feet with their 3L search.... and I don't particularly know a lot of people! Whether their BL salary came from one of the top 250 firms, don’t know that detail.

(You might be right about the OP being a flame... ditto the one claiming to be an attorney.)


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:12 am 
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Sheffield wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Last year, ~82 hires were made nationally through 3L OCI. That's why you (generically speaking) won't get a job through OCI.

And I actually figured the OP had to be a flame.

I know of 3 who landed on their feet with their 3L search.... and I don't particularly know a lot of people! Whether their BL salary came from one of the top 250 firms, don’t know that detail.

(You might be right about the OP being a flame... ditto the one claiming to be an attorney.)

You can land on your feet if you get no offered

No one's disputing that

But you probably won't get big law


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:17 am 
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Sheffield wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Last year, ~82 hires were made nationally through 3L OCI. That's why you (generically speaking) won't get a job through OCI.

And I actually figured the OP had to be a flame.

I know of 3 who landed on their feet with their 3L search.... and I don't particularly know a lot of people! Whether their BL salary came from one of the top 250 firms, don’t know that detail.

(You might be right about the OP being a flame... ditto the one claiming to be an attorney.)


There are a healthy number of offices interviewing 3Ls this year at OCI.

-(rising) 2L


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:22 am 
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Anonymous User wrote:
Sheffield wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Last year, ~82 hires were made nationally through 3L OCI. That's why you (generically speaking) won't get a job through OCI.

And I actually figured the OP had to be a flame.

I know of 3 who landed on their feet with their 3L search.... and I don't particularly know a lot of people! Whether their BL salary came from one of the top 250 firms, don’t know that detail.

(You might be right about the OP being a flame... ditto the one claiming to be an attorney.)


There are a healthy number of offices interviewing 3Ls this year at OCI.

-(rising) 2L

Yeah, but are they hiring?

"Because a number of the offices which did interview 3Ls ultimately made no offers, the 280 accepted callback invitations resulted in only 82 offers. Over three-quarters of these offers were accepted."

http://www.nalp.org/uploads/PerspectivesonFall2012LawStudentRecruiting.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:35 am 
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I’m not at a BL firm. Salary is BL, the firm is on a high floor that overlooks the city and the attorneys parking area could pass for an exotic car show. I have asked a couple times on TLS for a definition of BL. Answer is look at the rankings, if it is not included, it doesn’t matter if your firm pays $140K, your office overlooks the bay, you work with 50 attorneys, and your clients are mainly fortune 50. Bottom line, if they hired 10 3Ls nobody would notice.


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:42 am 
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Sheffield wrote:
I’m not at a BL firm. Salary is BL, the firm is on a high floor that overlooks the city and the attorneys parking area could pass for an exotic car show. I have asked a couple times on TLS for a definition of BL. Answer is look at the rankings, if it is not included, it doesn’t matter if your firm pays $140K, your office overlooks the bay, you work with 50 attorneys, and your clients are mainly fortune 50. Bottom line, if they hired 10 3Ls nobody would notice.

Cool story

What is this in response to


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:06 am 
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rad lulz wrote:
What is this in response to

That 3L hiring maybe challenging but it may not be nearly as bleak as portrayed.


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:14 am 
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Sheffield wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
What is this in response to

That 3L hiring maybe challenging but it may not be nearly as bleak as portrayed.

We aren't talking about 3L hiring in the abstract or as a concept

We're talking about 3L OCI

Which is an utter joke

(also 3L hiring is pretty bleak)


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:29 am 
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Sheffield wrote:
(You might be right about the OP being a flame... ditto the one claiming to be an attorney.)

When did B_A_V20 ever get busted? His advice always seemed credited to me.


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:55 am 
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A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Sheffield wrote:
(You might be right about the OP being a flame... ditto the one claiming to be an attorney.)

When did B_A_V20 ever get busted? His advice always seemed credited to me.

It wasn’t terrible long ago. His opinions are always negative is what gave him away. I do not know an attorney with that kind of attitude (and I do know several, given SA). Unless he can prove otherwise, flame. I saw a recent thread where a mod banned someone from pretending to be an attorney, on the other hand, there’s a thread where the poster proved to a mod that he/she was the real deal. Probably not a bad policy, prove to a mod, or just prove it by posting something creditable (other than naming yourself Sheffield Supreme Court Justice) and all is good.


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 Post subject: Re: B- .... how much will it affect my chances?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:04 pm 
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Sheffield wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Sheffield wrote:
(You might be right about the OP being a flame... ditto the one claiming to be an attorney.)

When did B_A_V20 ever get busted? His advice always seemed credited to me.

It wasn’t terrible long ago. His opinions are always negative is what gave him away. I do not know an attorney with that kind of attitude (and I do know several, given SA). Unless he can prove otherwise, flame. I saw a recent thread where a mod banned someone from pretending to be an attorney, on the other hand, there’s a thread where the poster proved to a mod that he/she was the real deal. Probably not a bad policy, prove to a mod, or just prove it by posting something creditable (other than naming yourself Sheffield Supreme Court Justice) and all is good.


he's flame because his opinions/observations etc... contradict your delusions?

http://www.daveneefoundation.com/lawyers-and-depression

http://abovethelaw.com/2013/03/unhappie ... e-a-guess/

http://www.butidohavealawdegree.com/201 ... bSpLPl_CSp


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