NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

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lgleye
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby lgleye » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:21 pm

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Last edited by lgleye on Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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homestyle28
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby homestyle28 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:28 pm

Icculus wrote:
Kikero wrote:
cactuarX3 wrote:Just wondering how much importance we should place into the medians on that callback list. Seems like with a 45% response rate, it's not very reliable except for maybe the firms that recruit most heavily out of NU (e.g. Sidley, Kirkland, Latham, etc.) since other firms may have just a few people who did callbacks and out of those few people, maybe only 1 or 2 people responded with their median GPAs. Also, I've noticed some firms having huge discrepancies between their 2011 and 2012 median GPAs for the same firm/office (3.4 medians jumping to 3.9 and vice versa).

Given this concern, should we even put too much weight on this list for our bidding strategies outside of the most popular firms?


I'm a rising 2L too, so obviously I'm not an expert, but I would think the data is most useful if you look at multiple years and only use it for general info. If you have a 3.6 and the median at the firm you want is 3.7 for 2012 and it was 3.5 in 2011, I don't think that really tells you anything extremely useful. But if in the past 3 years a firm has never given a callback to someone below a 3.5 and you have a 3.35, maybe don't waste a high bid on that firm.


I would recommend not focussing too much on the median (yes it is good to know, but remember just as many people are above that number as below). The two numbers i felt were most important were the high GPA and low GPA of callbacks since that may give you a general idea of the firm's cutoffs. That said, remember that there can be many reasons for an exceptionally low GPA cutoff (URM, other diversity factors, work experience, etc). But it at least gives you an idea of places you would definitely be out of. And I have said this before and will say it again: LOOK AT CLASS SIZES!! A firm taking on 100 summers is going to often times have more leeway than a firm taking on 20 or 5.


It's incredibly important to get it in your head now that OCI/getting a job is NOT AT ALL like getting into law school. While it's true that gpa numbers are still relevant, all those "soft" factors now become important. If I could go back and do it over, I'd try to learn about firm reputations (e.g. Jenner likes liberals, etc.) and think about how I fit. Being able to show genuine enthusiasm about a particular firm (above the I just want a job enthusiasm) can go a long way.

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby crumpetsandtea » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:34 pm

lgleye wrote:
Icculus wrote:Did you decline the invitations? If so, that was a mistake.

No, just didn't know how to reply, considering that everyone's telling me to chill. Their responses were late last week, so I guess that I could write back. I was just surprised at how many offers.

It's not difficult, don't overthink it! Just thank them and ask when they're available, and set a date for coffee/phone interview. Make sure you will have enough time to think of some questions and prepare beforehand.

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Icculus
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby Icculus » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:45 pm

homestyle28 wrote:
Icculus wrote:
Kikero wrote:
cactuarX3 wrote:Just wondering how much importance we should place into the medians on that callback list. Seems like with a 45% response rate, it's not very reliable except for maybe the firms that recruit most heavily out of NU (e.g. Sidley, Kirkland, Latham, etc.) since other firms may have just a few people who did callbacks and out of those few people, maybe only 1 or 2 people responded with their median GPAs. Also, I've noticed some firms having huge discrepancies between their 2011 and 2012 median GPAs for the same firm/office (3.4 medians jumping to 3.9 and vice versa).

Given this concern, should we even put too much weight on this list for our bidding strategies outside of the most popular firms?


I'm a rising 2L too, so obviously I'm not an expert, but I would think the data is most useful if you look at multiple years and only use it for general info. If you have a 3.6 and the median at the firm you want is 3.7 for 2012 and it was 3.5 in 2011, I don't think that really tells you anything extremely useful. But if in the past 3 years a firm has never given a callback to someone below a 3.5 and you have a 3.35, maybe don't waste a high bid on that firm.


I would recommend not focussing too much on the median (yes it is good to know, but remember just as many people are above that number as below). The two numbers i felt were most important were the high GPA and low GPA of callbacks since that may give you a general idea of the firm's cutoffs. That said, remember that there can be many reasons for an exceptionally low GPA cutoff (URM, other diversity factors, work experience, etc). But it at least gives you an idea of places you would definitely be out of. And I have said this before and will say it again: LOOK AT CLASS SIZES!! A firm taking on 100 summers is going to often times have more leeway than a firm taking on 20 or 5.


It's incredibly important to get it in your head now that OCI/getting a job is NOT AT ALL like getting into law school. While it's true that gpa numbers are still relevant, all those "soft" factors now become important. If I could go back and do it over, I'd try to learn about firm reputations (e.g. Jenner likes liberals, etc.) and think about how I fit. Being able to show genuine enthusiasm about a particular firm (above the I just want a job enthusiasm) can go a long way.


100% this. While a high GPA may get you a callback, firms really want people who want to be there. And interviewers want people they could see themselves working with for long hours, week in and week out. I had one hiring partner tell me that as long as you are above the firm's cut off he doesn't care howhigh your grades are, he just wants people who would fit in with the firm and who he could see himself working with.

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basilseal
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby basilseal » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:48 pm

Besides Vault and Chambers, can anyone recommend places to learn about firm reputations (ie Jenner liberalism)?

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Icculus
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby Icculus » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:34 pm

basilseal wrote:Besides Vault and Chambers, can anyone recommend places to learn about firm reputations (ie Jenner liberalism)?


Funny enough, ATL is a good resource, as well as current associates and upperclassmen who may have experience at a particular firm.

Bumi
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby Bumi » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:15 pm

Agree on the above re: fit. People who know me well, but dont know my gpa bc no one does, were totally unsurprised by which firms did and didn't like me. On the other hand if you knew only my GPA and this data you would never correctly guess where I did callbacks.

basilseal wrote:Besides Vault and Chambers, can anyone recommend places to learn about firm reputations (ie Jenner liberalism)?


The google doc the Career co-chairs sent out recently. That thing was gold.

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cactuarX3
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby cactuarX3 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:39 pm

Is there a consensus on whether (1) to mass mail firms who are coming to OCI before OCI starts in order to get interviews and use bids on other firms or (2) to wait until OCI bidding is over and mass mail the firms that we didn't get screeners for?

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rinkrat19
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm

Oh of COURSE Dave is on vacation all week. :?

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Kikero
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby Kikero » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:21 pm

cactuarX3 wrote:Is there a consensus on whether (1) to mass mail firms who are coming to OCI before OCI starts in order to get interviews and use bids on other firms or (2) to wait until OCI bidding is over and mass mail the firms that we didn't get screeners for?


So, I asked my advisor this question last week and she said that it's actually against some policy to solicit interviews to replace OCI for firms coming to OCI, but that it's ok to network and if that leads to something on its own, or you have previous contact with a firm through connections, that's ok. She said that once bidding is over its fine to contact any firms you didn't get interviews with prior to any interviews actually taking place though.

This seems sort of odd to me, especially since you can interview with OTIP firms prior to OCI even if those firms are coming to OCI, any rising 3Ls know anything more?

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Icculus
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby Icculus » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:59 am

cactuarX3 wrote:Is there a consensus on whether (1) to mass mail firms who are coming to OCI before OCI starts in order to get interviews and use bids on other firms or (2) to wait until OCI bidding is over and mass mail the firms that we didn't get screeners for?


Send a letter. It can't hurt. Don't listen to career services

Pokemon
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby Pokemon » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:02 am

Icculus wrote:
cactuarX3 wrote:Is there a consensus on whether (1) to mass mail firms who are coming to OCI before OCI starts in order to get interviews and use bids on other firms or (2) to wait until OCI bidding is over and mass mail the firms that we didn't get screeners for?


Send a letter. It can't hurt. Don't listen to career services


If you are browsing TLS and spend time thinking about mass mailing right now, you have done more due diligence and know more than what CSO can possibly teach you.

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bk1
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby bk1 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:44 am

Kikero wrote:she said that it's actually against some policy to solicit interviews to replace OCI for firms coming to OCI

lol fuck this stupid policy.

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Icculus
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby Icculus » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:22 am

bk1 wrote:
Kikero wrote:she said that it's actually against some policy to solicit interviews to replace OCI for firms coming to OCI

lol fuck this stupid policy.


Seriously, I know several people who got interviews this way at firms they then didn't have to bid for OCI.

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Georgia Avenue
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby Georgia Avenue » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:26 am

bk1 wrote:
Kikero wrote:she said that it's actually against some policy to solicit interviews to replace OCI for firms coming to OCI

lol fuck this stupid policy.


hahahaha they can't be serious. send it anyway and if CSO finds out tell them to fuck off.

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Kikero
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby Kikero » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:40 am

Thanks guys

terriers
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby terriers » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:47 am

FWIW my career adviser told me to mass-mail before OCI and to let the firm know that you wanted to interview with them, but that you were outbid. So maybe not quite outright soliciting an interview, but pretty close.

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Samara
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby Samara » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:13 am

terriers wrote:FWIW my career adviser told me to mass-mail before OCI and to let the firm know that you wanted to interview with them, but that you were outbid. So maybe not quite outright soliciting an interview, but pretty close.

You wouldn't say you outbid before OCI though. I guess you could if it was between bidding and the actual interviews, but I think people are talking about mailing before bidding is due. I've definitely been told by OCS to mass mail firms I didn't get after bidding, but not before.

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cactuarX3
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby cactuarX3 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:16 am

terriers wrote:FWIW my career adviser told me to mass-mail before OCI and to let the firm know that you wanted to interview with them, but that you were outbid. So maybe not quite outright soliciting an interview, but pretty close.


Wait, so by this you mean: (1) do the bidding, (2) wait until the interview schedules are released (August 9th), (3) mass mail the firms you did not get interviews with? This definitely makes sense, but isn't August 9th a little too late to be mass mailing?

terriers
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby terriers » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:34 am

Samara wrote:
terriers wrote:FWIW my career adviser told me to mass-mail before OCI and to let the firm know that you wanted to interview with them, but that you were outbid. So maybe not quite outright soliciting an interview, but pretty close.

You wouldn't say you outbid before OCI though. I guess you could if it was between bidding and the actual interviews, but I think people are talking about mailing before bidding is due. I've definitely been told by OCS to mass mail firms I didn't get after bidding, but not before.


Yeah, I guess the logical conclusion to that would be that you don't mass-mail any firms coming to OCI until you don't win a bid on them. If a firm isn't coming to OCI though, seems like there's no reason not to e-mail them a bit earlier.

EDIT: Oh, I see what you mean. I don't know why you'd contact a firm coming to OCI before bidding has even ended to solicit an interview. I guess it can't hurt, but if I'm the firm reading the letter, I probably think, "if this guy wants to interview with us so badly, why isn't he just putting us in his top-5 for OCI bidding." Maybe my impression here is incorrect though?

cactuarX3 wrote:Wait, so by this you mean: (1) do the bidding, (2) wait until the interview schedules are released (August 9th), (3) mass mail the firms you did not get interviews with? This definitely makes sense, but isn't August 9th a little too late to be mass mailing?


I don't think it's too late for firms coming to OCI, I'm sure those firms understand that not everybody that bids on them will get an interview. But it wouldn't make sense to mass-mail them when you still have no idea whether or not you'll win your bid on them. Maybe a couple rising 3Ls could confirm, but that was my impression at least.

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Icculus
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby Icculus » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:27 am

cactuarX3 wrote:
terriers wrote:FWIW my career adviser told me to mass-mail before OCI and to let the firm know that you wanted to interview with them, but that you were outbid. So maybe not quite outright soliciting an interview, but pretty close.


Wait, so by this you mean: (1) do the bidding, (2) wait until the interview schedules are released (August 9th), (3) mass mail the firms you did not get interviews with? This definitely makes sense, but isn't August 9th a little too late to be mass mailing?


Mail the firms ahead of time rather than after bidding. Some firms will just tell you to bid them so no harm there, others will actually give you an interview and save you a bid spot. There is no downside. NONE.

terriers
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby terriers » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:32 am

Good to know, guess I (and my career adviser of course) were wrong. Should we mention anything in cover letters about how we know that they're coming to OCI? Or just treat it like a normal mass-mail?

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lgleye
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby lgleye » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:49 pm

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Last edited by lgleye on Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Georgia Avenue
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby Georgia Avenue » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:08 pm

lgleye wrote:Hi:
I'm sensing a ton of animosity and dismissive attitude here against OCS. I guess that you 3L's and above say this from personal experience? For me, I'm finding that I get a lot more help from 2L's and above than from OCS. At first, I thought it was b/c I didn't know what I was doing, but now you're confirming that we're really alone here?
Another question is, what can OCS do to those who violate a mass-mailing "policy"??


What can OCS do? Nothing. What are they going to make you do, no-show your interview? Turn down an offer?

The attitude towards OCS comes from a lot of people having poor experiences with them. In my case, my career advisor left months prior to OCI and the school never bothered to replace him. When they did, it was with someone who wasn't a career specialist who gave very poor advice to numerous people regarding bid lists, and was all but worthless with outside of OCI job search tips. Granted, it ended up well for most of those people and me, but the experience was pretty piss poor nonetheless.

Why should you go out of your way to help them if they won't return the favor? Talk to people here and at school who have actually been there.

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt

Postby crumpetsandtea » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:11 pm

terriers wrote:Good to know, guess I (and my career adviser of course) were wrong. Should we mention anything in cover letters about how we know that they're coming to OCI? Or just treat it like a normal mass-mail?

I would bet money that we have the same career adviser.




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