NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt Forum

[elizcbeth]

Also, isn't there some rule against getting an OCI interview with a firm you DID interview with at an outside fair? Unless I'm completely misinterpreting him, Dave is telling me I'm not supposed to overlap my OCI firms w/ my SFIPLA firms.

The limitation on interviewing with the same office of the same firm twice comes from the employers, though we are the ones asked to enforce it. Bidding on a firm with whom you will interview at an outside job fair is a wasted bid, as 99 out of 100 times the firms catch the overlap and we have to remove you from their interview list.

If you eliminate the firms that didn't preselect you at the minority fair (dumb) AND the firms that did preselect you (because rules), you'd be left with only firms that weren't at the fair at all.

I might be just stating the obvious, but I think he just means that if you interview with Firm A at CCBA, for ex, and you don't get a callback from them, you're not going to get a callback from Firm A at OCI either so it's a waste of an interview slot.

[Kikero]

Also, isn't there some rule against getting an OCI interview with a firm you DID interview with at an outside fair? Unless I'm completely misinterpreting him, Dave is telling me I'm not supposed to overlap my OCI firms w/ my SFIPLA firms.

The limitation on interviewing with the same office of the same firm twice comes from the employers, though we are the ones asked to enforce it. Bidding on a firm with whom you will interview at an outside job fair is a wasted bid, as 99 out of 100 times the firms catch the overlap and we have to remove you from their interview list.

If you eliminate the firms that didn't preselect you at the minority fair (dumb) AND the firms that did preselect you (because rules), you'd be left with only firms that weren't at the fair at all.

I might be just stating the obvious, but I think he just means that if you interview with Firm A at CCBA, for ex, and you don't get a callback from them, you're not going to get a callback from Firm A at OCI either so it's a waste of an interview slot.

I don't know, I think from that email it looks like they remove you from the interview list prior to interviewing, so it's not just a case of getting a cb being unlikely.

[rinkrat19]

Also, isn't there some rule against getting an OCI interview with a firm you DID interview with at an outside fair? Unless I'm completely misinterpreting him, Dave is telling me I'm not supposed to overlap my OCI firms w/ my SFIPLA firms.

The limitation on interviewing with the same office of the same firm twice comes from the employers, though we are the ones asked to enforce it. Bidding on a firm with whom you will interview at an outside job fair is a wasted bid, as 99 out of 100 times the firms catch the overlap and we have to remove you from their interview list.

If you eliminate the firms that didn't preselect you at the minority fair (dumb) AND the firms that did preselect you (because rules), you'd be left with only firms that weren't at the fair at all.

I might be just stating the obvious, but I think he just means that if you interview with Firm A at CCBA, for ex, and you don't get a callback from them, you're not going to get a callback from Firm A at OCI either so it's a waste of an interview slot.

No, he's talking about preselects at fairs (where the firms pick who to give screeners to, which we don't have for OCI at NU) and OCI screeners. That's why he says "we have to remove you from their interview list." (The school isn't keeping track of your callback schedule.) If you get a preselect at a fair and get an interview, you're not supposed to get another screener with that firm at OCI. It's a wasted bid because even though the computer gave you a screener at OCI, the firm won't want to interview you again and will ask the school to unassign that screener slot.

[franklyscarlet]

You're all saying the same thing, I think. Elizcbeth is just explaining the rationale behind the rule.

[rinkrat19]

You're all saying the same thing, I think. Elizcbeth is just explaining the rationale behind the rule.

I thought she was saying "getting 2 screeners isn't likely to result in anything anyway" while I was saying "it's not allowed."

[franklyscarlet]

You're all saying the same thing, I think. Elizcbeth is just explaining the rationale behind the rule.

I thought she was saying "getting 2 screeners isn't likely to result in anything anyway" while I was saying "it's not allowed."

Combined:
"getting two screeners isn't going to result in anything anyway [and takes screeners from others who might benefit from them] but they figure people will try it anyway so there's a rule."

[rinkrat19]

You're all saying the same thing, I think. Elizcbeth is just explaining the rationale behind the rule.

I thought she was saying "getting 2 screeners isn't likely to result in anything anyway" while I was saying "it's not allowed."

Combined:
"getting two screeners isn't going to result in anything anyway [and takes screeners from others who might benefit from them] but they figure people will try it anyway so there's a rule."

I cannot disagree. We'll go with that.

[Anonymous User]

I have no idea what I'm doing.Help.

3.72, LR. Targeting New York and DC, would like to get into litigation. Above all else, I'd like a job. These are my top 26. I ranked them in order where I thought I'd have a shot at a CB, and then reach firms I thought I might be a little safer leaving towards teens/mid-20s. I was going to throw in a few to Boston firms and fill out the rest of what I had from NY. Mass mailing other firms in these markets as well as my home market.

1 Sidley DC
2 Mayer Brown NY
3 Stroock NY
4 Willkie NY
5 OMM NY
6 DLA DC
7 Jones Day DC
8 Baker Botts DC
9 Paul Hastings NY
10 Allen Overy NY
11 Shearman NY
12 Simpson Thacher NY
13 CWT NY
14 Paul Weiss NY
15 Gibson DC
16 DPW NY
17 Weil NY
18 Wilmer DC
19 Ropes DC
20 Covington DC
21 K&E DC
22 Latham DC
23 Williams DC
24 CSM NY
25 Cleary NY
26 Skadden NY

ETA: Clarity.

[IAFG]

Strook at 3 with those grades and LR? OMG someone help this guy.

[bdubs]

I have no idea what I'm doing.Help.

3.72, LR. Targeting New York and DC, would like to get into litigation. Above all else, I'd like a job. These are my top 26. I ranked them in order where I thought I'd have a shot at a CB, and then reach firms I thought I might be a little safer leaving towards teens/mid-20s. I was going to throw in a few to Boston firms and fill out the rest of what I had from NY. Mass mailing other firms in these markets as well as my home market.

You don't need to bid Sidley DC #1, it's only Chicago that you need to worry about filing up at that slot. Your DC list looks a bit random. Why DLA and Baker Botts? They kind of stick out among the rest. Covington & Williams are probably out with your grades, but the LR credential might help if you can sell yourself really hard.

Seems like you've got NY covered but I don't know the bidding situation there that well.

[Icculus]

Strook at 3 with those grades and LR? OMG someone help this guy.

This.

General advice, you should move some of the NY V10s up, I think JD and WH DC may be a bit of a reach even with LR. And seriously, Strook at 3 is not right. Neither is Willkie at 4.

[Icculus]

I have no idea what I'm doing.Help.

3.72, LR. Targeting New York and DC, would like to get into litigation. Above all else, I'd like a job. These are my top 26. I ranked them in order where I thought I'd have a shot at a CB, and then reach firms I thought I might be a little safer leaving towards teens/mid-20s. I was going to throw in a few to Boston firms and fill out the rest of what I had from NY. Mass mailing other firms in these markets as well as my home market.

You don't need to bid Sidley DC #1, it's only Chicago that you need to worry about filing up at that slot. Your DC list looks a bit random. Why DLA and Baker Botts? They kind of stick out among the rest. Covington & Williams are probably out with your grades, but the LR credential might help if you can sell yourself really hard.

Seems like you've got NY covered but I don't know the bidding situation there that well.

This is a much better analysis than mine and IAFG. Rework your list and come back. You can PM with your NY bids if you want since I focussed on there and Boston and have an idea of where I landed screeners.

[bdubs]

I have no idea what I'm doing.Help.

3.72, LR. Targeting New York and DC, would like to get into litigation. Above all else, I'd like a job. These are my top 26. I ranked them in order where I thought I'd have a shot at a CB, and then reach firms I thought I might be a little safer leaving towards teens/mid-20s. I was going to throw in a few to Boston firms and fill out the rest of what I had from NY. Mass mailing other firms in these markets as well as my home market.

You don't need to bid Sidley DC #1, it's only Chicago that you need to worry about filing up at that slot. Your DC list looks a bit random. Why DLA and Baker Botts? They kind of stick out among the rest. Covington & Williams are probably out with your grades, but the LR credential might help if you can sell yourself really hard.

Seems like you've got NY covered but I don't know the bidding situation there that well.

This is a much better analysis than mine and IAFG. Rework your list and come back. You can PM with your NY bids if you want since I focussed on there and Boston and have an idea of where I landed screeners.

Feel free to PM me on DC. When I said you had NY covered I meant that you had most of the firms I would have expected to see but not in the order I expected to see them.

ETA:Now that I think about it though you're missing Debevoise which I would probably substitute for one of your real reaches unless you're dying to work at those firms.

[Anonymous User]

I have no idea what I'm doing.Help.

3.72, LR. Targeting New York and DC, would like to get into litigation. Above all else, I'd like a job. These are my top 26. I ranked them in order where I thought I'd have a shot at a CB, and then reach firms I thought I might be a little safer leaving towards teens/mid-20s. I was going to throw in a few to Boston firms and fill out the rest of what I had from NY. Mass mailing other firms in these markets as well as my home market.

You don't need to bid Sidley DC #1, it's only Chicago that you need to worry about filing up at that slot. Your DC list looks a bit random. Why DLA and Baker Botts? They kind of stick out among the rest. Covington & Williams are probably out with your grades, but the LR credential might help if you can sell yourself really hard.

Seems like you've got NY covered but I don't know the bidding situation there that well.

This is a much better analysis than mine and IAFG. Rework your list and come back. You can PM with your NY bids if you want since I focussed on there and Boston and have an idea of where I landed screeners.

Haha, thanks. I told you I had no idea what I was doing. Was just trying to play it safe. Need to hit the hay, so I will rework it tomorrow. Thanks for the help!

[09042014]

I have no idea what I'm doing.Help.

3.72, LR. Targeting New York and DC, would like to get into litigation. Above all else, I'd like a job. These are my top 26. I ranked them in order where I thought I'd have a shot at a CB, and then reach firms I thought I might be a little safer leaving towards teens/mid-20s. I was going to throw in a few to Boston firms and fill out the rest of what I had from NY. Mass mailing other firms in these markets as well as my home market.

1 Sidley DC
2 Mayer Brown NY
3 Stroock NY
4 Willkie NY
5 OMM NY
6 DLA DC
7 Jones Day DC
8 Baker Botts DC
9 Paul Hastings NY
10 Allen Overy NY
11 Shearman NY
12 Simpson Thacher NY
13 CWT NY
14 Paul Weiss NY
15 Gibson DC
16 DPW NY
17 Weil NY
18 Wilmer DC
19 Ropes DC
20 Covington DC
21 K&E DC
22 Latham DC
23 Williams DC
24 CSM NY
25 Cleary NY
26 Skadden NY

ETA: Clarity.

You should probably pick whether you want DC or NYC now, not later. Your GPA is good, but you cannot know that you'll be swimming in offers. So you gotta bid a wide spectrum and it's hard to do that while equally covering two cities. You only really get your first 15 bids reliably (though DC firms tend to stay later, and top NYC firms do too)

I don't have access to this years class SA class sizes, GPA data and # interview slots: so my advice is going to be a bid general. I'm assuming you want NYC over DC.

But your first 5 should be Big NYC firms that have a lot of SAs, aren't that selective, and have a fairly low number of interview slots (20 interviews). Probably firms like Fried Frank, Milbank, Cahill, Cadwalader. V50 firms like that. You pick the ones you like.

Then I'd put 3 "reach firms" - You have STB, Skadden, Paul Weiss, DPW and Cleary on your bid list, maybe pick three from there. Maybe pick the three with the lower average callback GPA. Up to you. If there is any elite firm you really want an interview, make sure it's one of the three.

That's 1-8. If you wanna go "big" pick 5 elite firms and then only do 10-13 as I instruct below. But after 13 you should follow my 14+ instructions.


Then 8-13- pick some more NYC firms that have 40-60 interview slots, and aren't super GPA whores. Order them from lowest GPA average to highest, so 8 would be the least selective.

14-24- Pick 10 DC or Elite NYC firms that you wanna interview with (don't pick Wiel, or Kirkland they'll be gone by 14). If there are any you really want interviews with put them first. Otherwise arrange them by A)number of bid slots, lower the slots the lower the bid, and B) Average callback GPA, lower the GPA the lower the bid. So you'd have firms with 20 slots and lower GPAs first. And end with super high GPA with 40-60 slots.

25+ You can throw the remaining elite and DC firms here in order of amount of bid slots. You really won't get much.

[IAFG]

Probably, the best thing to do with very good, but not great, grades is to bid DC low or pick up DC interviews during OCI. Focus on NYC V50 in your top 15 bids.

[Anonymous User]

Help. I've researched firms I like, I have all the gpa data and number of slots data, etc. I now have no idea what to do with it. How do I start ordering these? Are there resources I should be looking at to help with this? 3.4x, transactional, and i want Chicago or NY (Chicago heavily preferred).

[Anonymous User]

To tag along w/ the previous anon, as a 3.7x who is focused on Chicago lit, what's the general approach I should be taking when trying to build this list out? What's reasonable to shoot for?

[Anonymous User]

Making myself progressively more confused...any help greatly appreciated.

3.67, LR, transactional, would stay in Chicago for Kirkland/Sidley otherwise going NYC.

1. Sidley Austin (Chicago)
2. Linklaters
3. Simpson Thacher & Bartlett
4. Proskauer Rose
5. Kirkland & Ellis (Chicago)
6. Milbank Tweed
7. Paul Weiss
8. White & Case
9. Cadwalader
10. Cahill Gordon
11. Fried Frank
12. Davis Polk
13. Jones Day
14. Cleary Gottlieb
15. Weil Gotshal

I tried to incorporate some of DF's (very helpful) methodology, but have a couple questions. I think I have 2 serious reaches in my top-10 (Kirkland/Sidley), 2 kind-of reaches (STB, Paul Weiss), and then the rest are pretty much in range, is that going more aggressively than is advisable? And also curious how long DPW, Cleary Gottlieb, and Weil should be expected to last? I saw a few pages ago that Weil dropped to 17 last year, they have 60 slots, and with the bad layoff news, is it realistic to expect to get them at 15?

[splitsplat]

Making myself progressively more confused...any help greatly appreciated.

3.67, LR, transactional, would stay in Chicago for Kirkland/Sidley otherwise going NYC.

1. Sidley Austin (Chicago)
2. Linklaters
3. Simpson Thacher & Bartlett
4. Proskauer Rose
5. Kirkland & Ellis (Chicago)
6. Milbank Tweed
7. Paul Weiss
8. White & Case
9. Cadwalader
10. Cahill Gordon
11. Fried Frank
12. Davis Polk
13. Jones Day
14. Cleary Gottlieb
15. Weil Gotshal

I tried to incorporate some of DF's (very helpful) methodology, but have a couple questions. I think I have 2 serious reaches in my top-10 (Kirkland/Sidley), 2 kind-of reaches (STB, Paul Weiss), and then the rest are pretty much in range, is that going more aggressively than is advisable? And also curious how long DPW, Cleary Gottlieb, and Weil should be expected to last? I saw a few pages ago that Weil dropped to 17 last year, they have 60 slots, and with the bad layoff news, is it realistic to expect to get them at 15?

I don't think Kirkland is a reach at all with a 3.6x; they have given CBs to people at median, it's really going to be about fit and ties for chicago

[09042014]

Making myself progressively more confused...any help greatly appreciated.

3.67, LR, transactional, would stay in Chicago for Kirkland/Sidley otherwise going NYC.

1. Sidley Austin (Chicago)
2. Linklaters
3. Simpson Thacher & Bartlett
4. Proskauer Rose
5. Kirkland & Ellis (Chicago)
6. Milbank Tweed
7. Paul Weiss
8. White & Case
9. Cadwalader
10. Cahill Gordon
11. Fried Frank
12. Davis Polk
13. Jones Day
14. Cleary Gottlieb
15. Weil Gotshal

I tried to incorporate some of DF's (very helpful) methodology, but have a couple questions. I think I have 2 serious reaches in my top-10 (Kirkland/Sidley), 2 kind-of reaches (STB, Paul Weiss), and then the rest are pretty much in range, is that going more aggressively than is advisable? And also curious how long DPW, Cleary Gottlieb, and Weil should be expected to last? I saw a few pages ago that Weil dropped to 17 last year, they have 60 slots, and with the bad layoff news, is it realistic to expect to get them at 15?

I don't think Kirkland is a reach at all with a 3.6x; they have given CBs to people at median, it's really going to be about fit and ties for chicago

It's a reach at 3.6x, but not a crazy reach. I'd bid it number 2, since people are crazy about bidding it.

I might replace DPW with a V50 firm. I think it's a big reach, and you have a decent shot getting it at 16 anyway. That will moderate your bidlist a little bit. Right now you have like 5-6 reaches, depending how tough Weil is going to be.

Then do:

16: Skadden
17: DPW
18+: Cravath, SulCrom or maybe Hogan DC, Latham DC, Arnold Porter DC (just because they might still be open this late and more reasonable firms aren't).

Speaking of Weil, I'd probably wouldn't waste a T15 bid on it. It might have a small class size which would make it competitive. Maybe replace it with another big NYC firm that has 40-60 slots.

Then put Weil at 18. You might not get it, but it's too risky anyway. I'd rather have a shot at an interview with a firm that has a better chance of taking me.

[bdubs]

Making myself progressively more confused...any help greatly appreciated.

3.67, LR, transactional, would stay in Chicago for Kirkland/Sidley otherwise going NYC.

1. Sidley Austin (Chicago)
2. Linklaters
3. Simpson Thacher & Bartlett
4. Proskauer Rose
5. Kirkland & Ellis (Chicago)
6. Milbank Tweed
7. Paul Weiss
8. White & Case
9. Cadwalader
10. Cahill Gordon
11. Fried Frank
12. Davis Polk
13. Jones Day
14. Cleary Gottlieb
15. Weil Gotshal

I tried to incorporate some of DF's (very helpful) methodology, but have a couple questions. I think I have 2 serious reaches in my top-10 (Kirkland/Sidley), 2 kind-of reaches (STB, Paul Weiss), and then the rest are pretty much in range, is that going more aggressively than is advisable? And also curious how long DPW, Cleary Gottlieb, and Weil should be expected to last? I saw a few pages ago that Weil dropped to 17 last year, they have 60 slots, and with the bad layoff news, is it realistic to expect to get them at 15?

I don't think Kirkland is a reach at all with a 3.6x; they have given CBs to people at median, it's really going to be about fit and ties for chicago

It's a reach at 3.6x, but not a crazy reach. I'd bid it number 2, since people are crazy about bidding it.

I might replace DPW with a V50 firm. I think it's a big reach, and you have a decent shot getting it at 16 anyway. That will moderate your bidlist a little bit. Right now you have like 5-6 reaches, depending how tough Weil is going to be.

Then do:

16: Skadden
17: DPW
18+: Cravath, SulCrom or maybe Hogan DC, Latham DC, Arnold Porter DC (just because they might still be open this late and more reasonable firms aren't).

Speaking of Weil, I'd probably wouldn't waste a T15 bid on it. It might have a small class size which would make it competitive. Maybe replace it with another big NYC firm that has 40-60 slots.

Then put Weil at 18. You might not get it, but it's too risky anyway. I'd rather have a shot at an interview with a firm that has a better chance of taking me.

Both Kirkland and Sidley will ask about what markets you bid and be skeptical of you bidding all NY + those two Chicago firms. That might take you from possible to unlikely unless you have a really good, well articulated reason.

[bk1]

Both Kirkland and Sidley will ask about what markets you bid and be skeptical of you bidding all NY + those two Chicago firms. That might take you from possible to unlikely unless you have a really good, well articulated reason.

You don't have to tell them that you did just Kirkland/Sidley in Chicago. Something like: "I focused on Chicago but also bid NY as a backup because I know how competitive Chicago is."

[09042014]

Making myself progressively more confused...any help greatly appreciated.

3.67, LR, transactional, would stay in Chicago for Kirkland/Sidley otherwise going NYC.

1. Sidley Austin (Chicago)
2. Linklaters
3. Simpson Thacher & Bartlett
4. Proskauer Rose
5. Kirkland & Ellis (Chicago)
6. Milbank Tweed
7. Paul Weiss
8. White & Case
9. Cadwalader
10. Cahill Gordon
11. Fried Frank
12. Davis Polk
13. Jones Day
14. Cleary Gottlieb
15. Weil Gotshal

I tried to incorporate some of DF's (very helpful) methodology, but have a couple questions. I think I have 2 serious reaches in my top-10 (Kirkland/Sidley), 2 kind-of reaches (STB, Paul Weiss), and then the rest are pretty much in range, is that going more aggressively than is advisable? And also curious how long DPW, Cleary Gottlieb, and Weil should be expected to last? I saw a few pages ago that Weil dropped to 17 last year, they have 60 slots, and with the bad layoff news, is it realistic to expect to get them at 15?

I don't think Kirkland is a reach at all with a 3.6x; they have given CBs to people at median, it's really going to be about fit and ties for chicago

It's a reach at 3.6x, but not a crazy reach. I'd bid it number 2, since people are crazy about bidding it.

I might replace DPW with a V50 firm. I think it's a big reach, and you have a decent shot getting it at 16 anyway. That will moderate your bidlist a little bit. Right now you have like 5-6 reaches, depending how tough Weil is going to be.

Then do:

16: Skadden
17: DPW
18+: Cravath, SulCrom or maybe Hogan DC, Latham DC, Arnold Porter DC (just because they might still be open this late and more reasonable firms aren't).

Speaking of Weil, I'd probably wouldn't waste a T15 bid on it. It might have a small class size which would make it competitive. Maybe replace it with another big NYC firm that has 40-60 slots.

Then put Weil at 18. You might not get it, but it's too risky anyway. I'd rather have a shot at an interview with a firm that has a better chance of taking me.

Both Kirkland and Sidley will ask about what markets you bid and be skeptical of you bidding all NY + those two Chicago firms. That might take you from possible to unlikely unless you have a really good, well articulated reason.

1) If you aren't lying you aren't trying hard enough

2) You can reasonably say "hey, I want do transactional work, so I'm aiming for firms with strong transactional groups in Chicago and New York, but I prefer Chicago strongly."

[Anonymous User]

Anon OP here, thanks for all the advice everyone, will throw another V50 NY firm into that top-15 mix and hope to pick up one or two of DPW/Skadden/SullCrom/etc. between 15 and 20. I was planning on telling Kirkland/Sidley that I'm bidding Chicago with NY as a backup (which is true anyways, I'd go to Kirkland/Sidley ahead of the NY firms) and then segue into how Chicago is the greatest city ever created and etc.