Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

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TooOld4This
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby TooOld4This » Sat May 25, 2013 9:49 am

Peyton wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The crappier the school, the more uniformly high quality. I work at a firm on the "prestigious" end of the scale...

That post was absolutely ridiculous.

Unfortunately, posters pretending to be “V-whatever Associates” are not a rarity. Yesterday Dailygrind banned a bogus poster for pulling everyone’s chain. Given your idiotic post, I wouldn’t be surprised if you are that same poster going anonymous.

Please do not come back and claim you “really are” an associate at a firm. It would be way too laughable.


Absolutely nothing surprising about this.

HYS students have a much easier time finding BigLaw jobs. HYS also offers more non-BigLaw options for its students. When I was at a firm there was always the question of whether or not an HYS student was looking for a well compensated summer on their way to other employment post-grad. The very top one or two people at T100 schools are pretty much always at least as good as your average HYS student, but there is not the same culture of seeing BigLaw as 2L summer-only activity.

People who are there just for a summer paycheck are not generally going to gun the same way someone who believes the fate of their legal career lies upon their performance. With HYS students you are almost always going to end up with some BigLaw tourists, which winds up making the group's performance less uniform than the top 1 or 2 students from T100 schools, who seldom have tourists amongst their ranks.

Peyton
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby Peyton » Sat May 25, 2013 9:52 am

Danger Zone wrote:But your reason for believing the poster is bogus is asinine, which is why we are all laughing at you.

If you could hear the bogus poster’s laughter, it would blow out your speakers. Not to criticize your puny feeble laughter, but…. Yes.

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Danger Zone
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby Danger Zone » Sat May 25, 2013 9:58 am

Peyton wrote:
Danger Zone wrote:But your reason for believing the poster is bogus is asinine, which is why we are all laughing at you.

If you could hear the bogus poster’s laughter, it would blow out your speakers. Not to criticize your puny feeble laughter, but…. Yes.

Okay champ.

ragelion wrote:LOL at this.

Back to our regularly scheduled programming: OP, tell us as much about yourself as your feel comfortable (school, grades, whether you clerked, firm, market).

RodneyRuxin
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby RodneyRuxin » Sat May 25, 2013 10:27 am

Peyton wrote:
Danger Zone wrote:But your reason for believing the poster is bogus is asinine, which is why we are all laughing at you.

If you could hear the bogus poster’s laughter, it would blow out your speakers. Not to criticize your puny feeble laughter, but…. Yes.



>Unique biglaw perspective tries to help out TLS by doing an AMA.
>Some butthurt aspie t10 kid with 45 posts rages at him for no reason.

Thanks for ruining a potentially helpful thread, breh.


ETA: OP, could you tell us how you think your current job is helping your career? Are you getting less client-interaction while working with summers? It seems like it would be hard to be a rainmaker or someone the firm needs to keep around.

TooOld4This
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby TooOld4This » Sat May 25, 2013 10:39 am

RodneyRuxin wrote:

ETA: OP, could you tell us how you think your current job is helping your career? Are you getting less client-interaction while working with summers? It seems like it would be hard to be a rainmaker or someone the firm needs to keep around.


Not the OP, but this is an odd question.

Very little of BigLaw is client interaction. Spending a couple of weeks checking in with summers can mess up your schedule if the timing is bad, but it's generally just one of many non-billable administrative tasks that attorneys have to take on in addition to their billable work. Depending on your personality, it can be more pleasant than other options. Very few people at BigLaw make it rain. Most just keep institutional work flowing and pitch in on the multitude of administrative tasks.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby JamMasterJ » Sat May 25, 2013 10:47 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Peyton wrote:
Danger Zone wrote:Please explain what was so unbelievable about kids at TTs being in the fights of their lives to cling to a job.

First, that is not what was said. So you do not have to figure out how to scroll up, here is what was written.

The crappier the school, the more uniformly high quality.

If this is true then TTT/Cooley will all have a terrific new advertising slogan.

Dude, there's nothing remotely unbelievable about this statement (whether the OP is real or not, I have no idea). The point was that the crappier the school, the more uniformly high quality the work of the SAs at his/her firm, not the students from that school overall. The firm doubtless hires a tiny percentage of students from such schools, and there's nothing especially controversial in the idea that the top 1-5% of students at a crappy school can excel anywhere. Plus, given the firm is at the "prestigious" end of the scale, I highly doubt "crappy" in this context really means Cooley. It probably means Fordham.

ETA: And yes, yes, yes, someone will probably point out that it's the non-T14 people making these arguments. Doesn't make them wrong.

I'm a T6 student and I absolutely agree with you 100%. Guaranteed the top 3-5 students at Dozo are grinding harder (and probably as smart) as medianbro at UVA

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piccolittle
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby piccolittle » Sat May 25, 2013 10:51 am

When you are working on a deal/case with a summer, do you prefer those that wait for you to contact them with an assignment, or those that check in to see if you need any help? I can imagine the second one is more annoying, as I'm sure you know when you want a summer's help, but the first might also come off as unenthusiastic.

RodneyRuxin
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby RodneyRuxin » Sat May 25, 2013 10:53 am

TooOld4This wrote:
Not the OP, but this is an odd question.

Very little of BigLaw is client interaction. Spending a couple of weeks checking in with summers can mess up your schedule if the timing is bad, but it's generally just one of many non-billable administrative tasks that attorneys have to take on in addition to their billable work. Depending on your personality, it can be more pleasant than other options. Very few people at BigLaw make it rain. Most just keep institutional work flowing and pitch in on the multitude of administrative tasks.



Absolutely. I got the impression that one of his main tasks was working with summers, rather than it being an administrative task in addition to a normal workload.
Still, there has to be a reason the firm keeps you around and makes you partner, and I doubt "working with summers" makes someone as invaluable as a big book of business or extremely high billables.

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piccolittle
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby piccolittle » Sat May 25, 2013 10:57 am

RodneyRuxin wrote:
TooOld4This wrote:
Not the OP, but this is an odd question.

Very little of BigLaw is client interaction. Spending a couple of weeks checking in with summers can mess up your schedule if the timing is bad, but it's generally just one of many non-billable administrative tasks that attorneys have to take on in addition to their billable work. Depending on your personality, it can be more pleasant than other options. Very few people at BigLaw make it rain. Most just keep institutional work flowing and pitch in on the multitude of administrative tasks.



Absolutely. I got the impression that one of his main tasks was working with summers, rather than it being an administrative task in addition to a normal workload.
Still, there has to be a reason the firm keeps you around and makes you partner, and I doubt "working with summers" makes someone as invaluable as a big book of business or extremely high billables.

In my experience, the people working directly with summers tend to be first-year or lower-level associates, who really aren't concerned at this point with making partner, but doing their work and what the firm wants them to do (e.g. working directly with summers).

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Sheffield
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby Sheffield » Sat May 25, 2013 11:19 am

I do not know of a single SA not giving it their all — skipping lunch, staying late, doing whatever it takes. Sorry, not buying into a lot of the opinions noted in this thread.

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Danger Zone
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby Danger Zone » Sat May 25, 2013 11:19 am

Sheffield wrote:Sorry law firm associate, but I'm a summer and in my one week of experience I DISAGREE.

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Sheffield
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby Sheffield » Sat May 25, 2013 11:32 am

It was either that SA thing or sit at home by my keyboard so I could post 18 times a day.

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Jsa725
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby Jsa725 » Sat May 25, 2013 11:37 am

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Last edited by Jsa725 on Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat May 25, 2013 11:42 am

RodneyRuxin wrote:Absolutely. I got the impression that one of his main tasks was working with summers, rather than it being an administrative task in addition to a normal workload.
Still, there has to be a reason the firm keeps you around and makes you partner, and I doubt "working with summers" makes someone as invaluable as a big book of business or extremely high billables.

You do realize that someone who works with summers does so for about 10 weeks of the year, right?

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Danger Zone
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby Danger Zone » Sat May 25, 2013 12:18 pm

Sheffield wrote:It was either that SA thing or sit at home by my keyboard so I could post 18 times a day.

Fuck, I'm down to 18?

aces
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby aces » Sat May 25, 2013 12:23 pm

Sheffield wrote:I do not know of a single SA not giving it their all — skipping lunch, staying late, doing whatever it takes. Sorry, not buying into a lot of the opinions noted in this thread.


It's the first week. Everyone wants to make a good first impression. You will almost certainly see some SAs start to work less hard than others as the summer goes on.

Anonymous User
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 25, 2013 12:28 pm

RodneyRuxin wrote:OP here:

ETA: OP, could you tell us how you think your current job is helping your career? Are you getting less client-interaction while working with summers? It seems like it would be hard to be a rainmaker or someone the firm needs to keep around.


It's making my days longer, to be sure. Summer programs just got started, so the summers aren't just summers, they're new summers, and so they will be more useful in a few weeks than they can be now.

Otherwise, the firm encourages us to take on summers but it's not very regimented. I'm working with them because I like teaching/advising/interacting, not out of any particular political calculus, and certainly not to make my life any easier.

piccolittle wrote:When you are working on a deal/case with a summer, do you prefer those that wait for you to contact them with an assignment, or those that check in to see if you need any help? I can imagine the second one is more annoying, as I'm sure you know when you want a summer's help, but the first might also come off as unenthusiastic.


Scale of the firm matters a lot here. Big firms will be more regimented in assignments (unless they're the kind of big firms that brag about free market work assignments) while at smaller firms it's likely you'll have to be proactive. Personally, somebody seeking out my work and wanting to do it is a huge plus, though I may question their sanity/judgement.

Peyton wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:There's nothing remotely unbelievable about this statement (whether the OP is real or not, I have no idea).... I highly doubt "crappy" in this context really means Cooley. It probably means Fordham.

I suppose their advertising campaign will now have to read. The crappier the school, the more uniformly high quality. If you are at the top of your class, unless you attend Fordham.

Seriously, I am not doubting any SA/student that attends whatever school, but the poster (IMO) is as bogus as the one Dailygrind booted yesterday.


:lol:

As others have already pointed out, my observation (solely from my narrow perspective) is that the summer associates at my firm from shitty schools are of a more uniform quality than summer associates from the top few name brands (and as I alluded, Yale students are notoriously... well, Yale students).

Anyway, the mods are welcome to contact me and I'm happy to verify my story, and you are welcome to misread my words and bluster about the thread. Free country and all that.

AllTheLawz
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby AllTheLawz » Sat May 25, 2013 1:07 pm

Sheffield wrote:I do not know of a single SA not giving it their all — skipping lunch, staying late, doing whatever it takes. Sorry, not buying into a lot of the opinions noted in this thread.


What?? Skipping lunch the first week is probably how the path to the land of no offer starts. I stayed until 5:45 one day to take care of administrative stuff (billing, etc.) that I had ignored and a partner promptly called me out on it.

Idk if its an HYS v. non-HYS thing at my firm.. but the few kids from outside the t-14 at my firm have definitely been a little more on the "stiff" side. One of them said that, at least in their case, it had more to do with intimidation than gunning (SA class at my firm is probably about half HYS).

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Skye
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby Skye » Sat May 25, 2013 1:51 pm

AllTheLawz wrote:Idk if its an HYS v. non-HYS thing at my firm.. but the few kids from outside the t-14 at my firm have definitely been a little more on the "stiff" side. One of them said that, at least in their case, it had more to do with intimidation than gunning (SA class at my firm is probably about half HYS).
I just finished my second SA week. So far, better than advertised. However, some associates are receiving long complex assignments and others are continuing to receive easier tasks, surely the luck of the draw except that it is recurring. On occasion an SA isn’t clear on something and the partner (assigning the task) doesn’t have the time to explain. One SA tried to figure it out on his own and it turned out badly. Has this happened to you yet?

Since your firm is mostly HYS I assume that it is a 100% offer firm so the element of “anxiety” is not a huge concern as it might be an a firm without a near perfect offer rate. As someone noted, it is one thing to play defense (meaning just don’t screw up) than it is to be in a situation where the firm might pick the best “x” out of “x.”

AllTheLawz
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby AllTheLawz » Sat May 25, 2013 3:03 pm

Skye wrote:
AllTheLawz wrote:Idk if its an HYS v. non-HYS thing at my firm.. but the few kids from outside the t-14 at my firm have definitely been a little more on the "stiff" side. One of them said that, at least in their case, it had more to do with intimidation than gunning (SA class at my firm is probably about half HYS).
I just finished my second SA week. So far, better than advertised. However, some associates are receiving long complex assignments and others are continuing to receive easier tasks, surely the luck of the draw except that it is recurring. On occasion an SA isn’t clear on something and the partner (assigning the task) doesn’t have the time to explain. One SA tried to figure it out on his own and it turned out badly. Has this happened to you yet?

Since your firm is mostly HYS I assume that it is a 100% offer firm so the element of “anxiety” is not a huge concern as it might be an a firm without a near perfect offer rate. As someone noted, it is one thing to play defense (meaning just don’t screw up) than it is to be in a situation where the firm might pick the best “x” out of “x.”


Yep, it is a 100% offer firm so that helps a little. Haven't heard of any major mistakes yet. I am on the corporate side and so far a number of our assignments have been so clearly made up or redundant that I am pretty sure that the only purpose is to make sure that you ask reasonable questions and pay attention to the given timeline.

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TTRansfer
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby TTRansfer » Sat May 25, 2013 7:29 pm

Sheffield wrote:I do not know of a single SA not giving it their all — skipping lunch, staying late, doing whatever it takes. Sorry, not buying into a lot of the opinions noted in this thread.


Are they staying late for the sake of it or is the firm actually expecting them to stay late? At the NLJ firm I am at they force you out the door after 5. I was looked at like I had two heads when I stayed until 5:30 to finish up some administrative crap. I mentioned I was going to do a bit of work this weekend and I was specifically told not to multiple times.

Oof. I would hate being at a firm that expected its summers to be there late every day.

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TTRansfer
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby TTRansfer » Sat May 25, 2013 7:32 pm

Skye wrote:One SA tried to figure it out on his own and it turned out badly. Has this happened to you yet?


Never, ever, ever try and figure something out on your own. That is rules #1-5 on the "don't do this" list, hah. Poor kid probably gave either the associate or partner more work and will have all those hours scrapped since they aren't going to bill the client for his fuck-up.

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bk1
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby bk1 » Sat May 25, 2013 7:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyway, the mods are welcome to contact me and I'm happy to verify my story, and you are welcome to misread my words and bluster about the thread. Free country and all that.

OP is not lying. This this a warning to Peyton and to anyone else who feels like derailing this thread by making incorrect callouts:

Do not derail useful threads, especially when you are wrong. If you think someone is pretending to be something they're not through anonymous, report it. Otherwise shut it rather than doubling down on being wrong and looking stupid.

We now return to your regularly scheduled programming.

anon2014
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby anon2014 » Sat May 25, 2013 7:39 pm

TTRansfer wrote: Never, ever, ever try and figure something out on your own. That is rules #1-5 on the "don't do this" list, hah.


Can you elaborate? If I'm getting work from a partner and she told me not to talk to anyone about it, what am I supposed to do? Partner doesn't have time for explaining things to me, understandably. But I don't really see an option other than figure it out on my own.

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TTRansfer
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Re: Big firm associate working with a team of summers; AMA.

Postby TTRansfer » Sat May 25, 2013 7:51 pm

anon2014 wrote:
TTRansfer wrote: Never, ever, ever try and figure something out on your own. That is rules #1-5 on the "don't do this" list, hah.


Can you elaborate? If I'm getting work from a partner and she told me not to talk to anyone about it, what am I supposed to do? Partner doesn't have time for explaining things to me, understandably. But I don't really see an option other than figure it out on my own.


The partner told you not to ask any associates about it? That's odd. I mean, do what you need to do but don't just try and guess shit and end up turning something in that is not correct.




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