California Bar/Job advice-- Please Help

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California Bar/Job advice-- Please Help

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 23, 2013 12:58 pm

So, I accepted a competitive fellowship in Washington D.C. with a major corporation for 90k per-year with at least 15k in benefits. I am excited about this job, it is in government affairs (anitrust, IP, etc.), and will last approximately 1 year with no chance to continue thereafter.

I am currently signed up to take the New York Bar because I figured I would apply to companies thereafter on the East Coast.

My dream is to be back in California. I am at CCN above median with secondary journal experience. I had a job in CA, but the firm was bought by another big firm and the new class was cut.

My friend who is a partner in another California firm said that my plan to "eventually get back to California" is stupid. He said that I should sign up for the California Bar ASAP, try to pick up a post-bar associate job, and if that fails, network my whole year while in D.C., and if I can't get back then, try to clerk. He said "take the CA bar now, it will help you find a job a lot more than the NY bar"

Questions:

1) Does my friend's plan make sense?

2) IS THERE STILL TIME TO GET MY CA BAR APPLICATION IN? Doesn't the whole background thing takes weeks to complete? What do I do?

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Re: California Bar/Job advice-- Please Help

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 23, 2013 1:16 pm

1. Job prospects in New York are better than those in California, mainly because California is flooded with bad law schools and because the legal market hasn't picked up there as much as the rest of the economy or as in New York. However, if your goal is to end up in California, I see little value to seeking a "temporary" job in New York or New York bar admission. It will do very little for you in your quest to eventually get a job in California, and the difference in entry-level openings in mid-law and smaller law firms is not enough for New York to be worthwhile if you would really rather be in California. It would be different if you were talking certain job in New York v. uncertain prospects in California, but your prospects on both coasts are uncertain. Go with California.

2. Yes. The final filing deadline for California is June 17, though you'll have to pay $250 extra.

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The Brainalist
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Re: California Bar/Job advice-- Please Help

Postby The Brainalist » Thu May 23, 2013 3:23 pm

Is your friend giving you a job?

Is there any reason you can't take the February California Bar? Although I think there may be some benefit to taking the California bar first, if you were trying to apply in the fall to get in with firms' entry-level hiring budget, I think you'd probably be okay to say that you were taking both the NY and Cal bar. While I do think it is generally an advantage to apply with bar-passage in hand from the state to which you are applying, you wouldn't have that in either case. Also, having the bar is important for jobs that will expect you to do litigation right away, but a lot less important for corporate work. They may like their attorneys to be licensed in NY, CA, and Delaware.

I'm assuming that you went to NYU or Columbia, in which case you'd have a decent connection to NY. It is also a fair assumption that your first priority is to be employed and being in California is secondary. Apply to both NY and California. If NY gives you a good job, don't be an idiot and turn it down to keep networking in CA.

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Re: California Bar/Job advice-- Please Help

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 23, 2013 5:09 pm

The Brainalist wrote:Is your friend giving you a job?

Is there any reason you can't take the February California Bar? Although I think there may be some benefit to taking the California bar first, if you were trying to apply in the fall to get in with firms' entry-level hiring budget, I think you'd probably be okay to say that you were taking both the NY and Cal bar. While I do think it is generally an advantage to apply with bar-passage in hand from the state to which you are applying, you wouldn't have that in either case. Also, having the bar is important for jobs that will expect you to do litigation right away, but a lot less important for corporate work. They may like their attorneys to be licensed in NY, CA, and Delaware.

I'm assuming that you went to NYU or Columbia, in which case you'd have a decent connection to NY. It is also a fair assumption that your first priority is to be employed and being in California is secondary. Apply to both NY and California. If NY gives you a good job, don't be an idiot and turn it down to keep networking in CA.


My ties to New York or okay (wife is from there originally). But, we would both like to be in California. I actually have already summered at two firms out there. The one where I accepted the offer was bought out by another and had to fire me. I was hoping based upon the advice I received that there is entry-level hiring, and that I would be eligible for it (I guess I would be if I had good enough grades to get firms at OCI right?) I didn't think a firm would hire me as an entry-level if I didn't pass their bar.

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Re: California Bar/Job advice-- Please Help

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 23, 2013 5:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:1. Job prospects in New York are better than those in California, mainly because California is flooded with bad law schools and because the legal market hasn't picked up there as much as the rest of the economy or as in New York. However, if your goal is to end up in California, I see little value to seeking a "temporary" job in New York or New York bar admission. It will do very little for you in your quest to eventually get a job in California, and the difference in entry-level openings in mid-law and smaller law firms is not enough for New York to be worthwhile if you would really rather be in California. It would be different if you were talking certain job in New York v. uncertain prospects in California, but your prospects on both coasts are uncertain. Go with California.

2. Yes. The final filing deadline for California is June 17, though you'll have to pay $250 extra.


1. Are you sure this is right? I'm not seeking a temporary job in New York. I have a one year fellowship in DC. It was through a very competitive process, and pays over 100k after great benefits. It seems better to be doing this than no 100+k.

2. But isn't there an extended process to apply? I'm confused by the process because our admissions keeps saying "it will take awhile for CA."

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Re: California Bar/Job advice-- Please Help

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 23, 2013 5:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:1. Job prospects in New York are better than those in California, mainly because California is flooded with bad law schools and because the legal market hasn't picked up there as much as the rest of the economy or as in New York. However, if your goal is to end up in California, I see little value to seeking a "temporary" job in New York or New York bar admission. It will do very little for you in your quest to eventually get a job in California, and the difference in entry-level openings in mid-law and smaller law firms is not enough for New York to be worthwhile if you would really rather be in California. It would be different if you were talking certain job in New York v. uncertain prospects in California, but your prospects on both coasts are uncertain. Go with California.

2. Yes. The final filing deadline for California is June 17, though you'll have to pay $250 extra.


1. Are you sure this is right? I'm not seeking a temporary job in New York. I have a one year fellowship in DC. It was through a very competitive process, and pays over 100k after great benefits. It seems better to be doing this than no 100+k.

2. But isn't there an extended process to apply? I'm confused by the process because our admissions keeps saying "it will take awhile for CA."


C&F apps can take over six months to process (and in some cases over a year). Also, bar results are not released until November, assuming you sign up for the July bar exam.

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Re: California Bar/Job advice-- Please Help

Postby 09042014 » Thu May 23, 2013 6:01 pm

I'd take the CA bar, and apply to jobs in CA, DC and NYC.

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Re: California Bar/Job advice-- Please Help

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 23, 2013 6:10 pm

If you really want to end up in Calif, take the CA bar in February while working in DC. Take the NY Bar the following July if you have not located a Calif job by then.

Once you have passed Calif (you will know in May), if you want you can work in NY under the supervision of a local Attorney while you await NY results.

If you pass the CA bar with a sufficient MPRE and MBE scores, you also can waive into DC if you want.

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Re: California Bar/Job advice-- Please Help

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 24, 2013 10:56 am

Desert Fox wrote:I'd take the CA bar, and apply to jobs in CA, DC and NYC.


Thanks. I am starting to lean in this direction. I don't want NYC, want CA, and CA will help me in DC as much as NY will (which is where I will be if I don't land a job over the summer).

Last question. In terms of hiring timeline, when/will CA firms start hiring again? My friend said "after the bar." Is it common wisdom after the bar results, or after the bar is taken?

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Re: California Bar/Job advice-- Please Help

Postby hiima3L » Fri May 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I'd take the CA bar, and apply to jobs in CA, DC and NYC.


Thanks. I am starting to lean in this direction. I don't want NYC, want CA, and CA will help me in DC as much as NY will (which is where I will be if I don't land a job over the summer).

Last question. In terms of hiring timeline, when/will CA firms start hiring again? My friend said "after the bar." Is it common wisdom after the bar results, or after the bar is taken?


Firm hiring in CA happens in November after bar results are out. I'm guessing it does a little bit in May, but I imagine not much because the overwhelming majority of Feb takers are repeaters and, well, there's that.

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Re: California Bar/Job advice-- Please Help

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 24, 2013 3:26 pm

hiima3L wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I'd take the CA bar, and apply to jobs in CA, DC and NYC.


Thanks. I am starting to lean in this direction. I don't want NYC, want CA, and CA will help me in DC as much as NY will (which is where I will be if I don't land a job over the summer).

Last question. In terms of hiring timeline, when/will CA firms start hiring again? My friend said "after the bar." Is it common wisdom after the bar results, or after the bar is taken?


Firm hiring in CA happens in November after bar results are out. I'm guessing it does a little bit in May, but I imagine not much because the overwhelming majority of Feb takers are repeaters and, well, there's that.


Well, I'm gunning for a biglaw, midlaw, or boutique. I think I am going to take the CA bar and see how it works out. Thanks everyone! If something great happens, I will let you all know.

09042014
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Re: California Bar/Job advice-- Please Help

Postby 09042014 » Fri May 24, 2013 6:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
hiima3L wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I'd take the CA bar, and apply to jobs in CA, DC and NYC.


Thanks. I am starting to lean in this direction. I don't want NYC, want CA, and CA will help me in DC as much as NY will (which is where I will be if I don't land a job over the summer).

Last question. In terms of hiring timeline, when/will CA firms start hiring again? My friend said "after the bar." Is it common wisdom after the bar results, or after the bar is taken?


Firm hiring in CA happens in November after bar results are out. I'm guessing it does a little bit in May, but I imagine not much because the overwhelming majority of Feb takers are repeaters and, well, there's that.


Well, I'm gunning for a biglaw, midlaw, or boutique. I think I am going to take the CA bar and see how it works out. Thanks everyone! If something great happens, I will let you all know.


Last year.

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Re: California Bar/Job advice-- Please Help

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 24, 2013 7:03 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Last year.


Edit. Your are probably right, I just want someone to tell me otherwise. CA Biglaw has kind of collapsed since private financings slowed down (it seems like only the publics are surviving this economy). I wouldn't be surprised if OMM and some of the others are stealth layoffing people. IP lit is still booming. I am not an IP lit guy. But, if the private-side market ticks up at all between now and November, I bet biglaw will be hiring again outside of lateral pools. It actually would be a nice bet-- I just wish this was Vegas in summer at 3.5 diamond poor tourist hotels' poker tables where you can bring in a 30k bankroll and be pretty assured with a 50+% return over the course of like 18 hours. Instead, this is life.

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Re: California Bar/Job advice-- Please Help

Postby hiima3L » Sat May 25, 2013 8:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Last year.


Edit. Your are probably right, I just want someone to tell me otherwise. CA Biglaw has kind of collapsed since private financings slowed down (it seems like only the publics are surviving this economy). I wouldn't be surprised if OMM and some of the others are stealth layoffing people. IP lit is still booming. I am not an IP lit guy. But, if the private-side market ticks up at all between now and November, I bet biglaw will be hiring again outside of lateral pools. It actually would be a nice bet-- I just wish this was Vegas in summer at 3.5 diamond poor tourist hotels' poker tables where you can bring in a 30k bankroll and be pretty assured with a 50+% return over the course of like 18 hours. Instead, this is life.


In CA, if anything, big law is laying off people and not hiring any more. The legal economy is still horrible in CA.

Not sure what your stats are, where you're coming from, etc., but I know a handful of people from UCLA/UCH/UCD/USC who struck out at OCI but ended up graduating coif who struggled to find any job.

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Re: California Bar/Job advice-- Please Help

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 25, 2013 9:58 am

hiima3L wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Last year.


Edit. Your are probably right, I just want someone to tell me otherwise. CA Biglaw has kind of collapsed since private financings slowed down (it seems like only the publics are surviving this economy). I wouldn't be surprised if OMM and some of the others are stealth layoffing people. IP lit is still booming. I am not an IP lit guy. But, if the private-side market ticks up at all between now and November, I bet biglaw will be hiring again outside of lateral pools. It actually would be a nice bet-- I just wish this was Vegas in summer at 3.5 diamond poor tourist hotels' poker tables where you can bring in a 30k bankroll and be pretty assured with a 50+% return over the course of like 18 hours. Instead, this is life.


In CA, if anything, big law is laying off people and not hiring any more. The legal economy is still horrible in CA.

Not sure what your stats are, where you're coming from, etc., but I know a handful of people from UCLA/UCH/UCD/USC who struck out at OCI but ended up graduating coif who struggled to find any job.


I don't buy this. CA's economy isn't that bad. Firms are still hiring entry levels-- I saw three positions over the last few weeks and more before that. Problem is they were all health industry or IP litigation or patent prosecution related. I mean CA's bread and butter is private company work. If this ticks up at all, there will be hiring.

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Re: California Bar/Job advice-- Please Help

Postby hiima3L » Sun May 26, 2013 6:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
hiima3L wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Last year.


Edit. Your are probably right, I just want someone to tell me otherwise. CA Biglaw has kind of collapsed since private financings slowed down (it seems like only the publics are surviving this economy). I wouldn't be surprised if OMM and some of the others are stealth layoffing people. IP lit is still booming. I am not an IP lit guy. But, if the private-side market ticks up at all between now and November, I bet biglaw will be hiring again outside of lateral pools. It actually would be a nice bet-- I just wish this was Vegas in summer at 3.5 diamond poor tourist hotels' poker tables where you can bring in a 30k bankroll and be pretty assured with a 50+% return over the course of like 18 hours. Instead, this is life.


In CA, if anything, big law is laying off people and not hiring any more. The legal economy is still horrible in CA.

Not sure what your stats are, where you're coming from, etc., but I know a handful of people from UCLA/UCH/UCD/USC who struck out at OCI but ended up graduating coif who struggled to find any job.


I don't buy this. CA's economy isn't that bad. Firms are still hiring entry levels-- I saw three positions over the last few weeks and more before that. Problem is they were all health industry or IP litigation or patent prosecution related. I mean CA's bread and butter is private company work. If this ticks up at all, there will be hiring.


I wouldn't consider three openings to be an indicator of a healthy economy.

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Re: California Bar/Job advice-- Please Help

Postby ak362 » Sun May 26, 2013 6:20 pm

2) IS THERE STILL TIME TO GET MY CA BAR APPLICATION IN? Doesn't the whole background thing takes weeks to complete? What do I do?


OP: Unlike many other states, California allows you to complete the C&F process at any time (even after you've taken the exam). (I know some states require successful C&F clearance as a condition precedent to taking the exam, but CA isn't one of those states.) At the moment, you just need to pay the registration fee and the exam fee (around $1,000, if I recall correctly) and sign up for an exam location. A successful examination is good for five years, and C&F clearance is good for two years. As a previous poster mentioned, the State Bar advises that the C&F process lasts an average of six months, but some folks have gotten their clearance earlier and some received their clearance later.

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Re: California Bar/Job advice-- Please Help

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 26, 2013 7:40 pm

ak362 wrote:
2) IS THERE STILL TIME TO GET MY CA BAR APPLICATION IN? Doesn't the whole background thing takes weeks to complete? What do I do?


OP: Unlike many other states, California allows you to complete the C&F process at any time (even after you've taken the exam). (I know some states require successful C&F clearance as a condition precedent to taking the exam, but CA isn't one of those states.) At the moment, you just need to pay the registration fee and the exam fee (around $1,000, if I recall correctly) and sign up for an exam location. A successful examination is good for five years, and C&F clearance is good for two years. As a previous poster mentioned, the State Bar advises that the C&F process lasts an average of six months, but some folks have gotten their clearance earlier and some received their clearance later.


Thanks a bunch. My law school dean said something that really confused me that this cleared up. Any final thoughts on NY/CA? Which one will have more post-bar opportunities available (major firm, midlaw, well-paying boutique)? Does New York make more sense long-term if I will be doing IP, antitrust, IP-antitrust, and trade at my fellowship?

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Re: California Bar/Job advice-- Please Help

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 26, 2013 7:42 pm

hiima3L wrote:I wouldn't consider three openings to be an indicator of a healthy economy.


No, its not indicative of a healthy economy. My point is that there is a punchers chance if private-side corporate work recovers at all over the next six months.




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