Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

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Anonymous User
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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:37 am

I didn't enjoy my summer. Firm has several offices, I was the only SA in the office they placed me. Attorney mentor had mood swings, one day nice, the next he hated the world.

Had great reviews, but people genuinely didn't give a crap about me.

This is a firm that is growing extremely fast.

I probably would have enjoyed RAing more.

For the record, I'm a rising 2L.

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manofjustice
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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby manofjustice » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:45 am

FeelTheHeat wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm likely being neurotic, but I was wondering how bad a "fit" problem has to be to warrant a no-offer. I get along with everyone and I'd say lots like me and think I'm funny. There's one male associate, however, who seems to always be staring at me. He'll walk by my office and be looking in or I'll be walking through the hallways. When we make eye contact, he looks away really quickly. Neither of us says anything. We've gone to lunch before, but it feels weird. Is that enough to do it? Also, I'm not too close with my shareholder mentor. He has never given me work. Today he emailed me to tell me that he wouldn't be here my last week, but that he enjoyed working with me. He also wished my good luck with the coming school year. Finally, associate mentor keeps talking about my file and compiling all of my work product. It just makes me nervous. I'm probably being a crazy person though.

It's just bizarre that I keep hearing about compiling work and good luck with the year, when I know summers in other offices are hearing "don't worry. You're fine. If you were getting no-offered, you'd have an idea."

For what it's worth, my firm usually offers 90%+ nationwide. Any thoughts or am I just being an anxious mess?


For staring guy, he's given me about five assignments, no one has had any issues with my work product, and I'm a female if that matters. We've also gone to lunch a couple times too.


He wants to bang you. HTH.


Amazing you can succeed in law school and make it to a large law firm and not pick up on this.

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manofjustice
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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby manofjustice » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:I split at a Vault firm in DC and a mid sized lit firm in Dallas last summer, and had very different experiences at each.

At the large firm, I did almost no substantive work of any kind, a few memos here and there, some brief checking and cite checking - I think I drafted portions of two different briefs that would never really see the light of day. I spent most of my time researching and summarizing the results of my research in memos. I was taken to lunch almost daily at great restaurants and we had multiple social events every week, from events out at bars to summer league softball, the whole nine yards. And when you factor in the money, it was amazing. But none of it was why I wanted to be a lawyer, and I think a lot of people get lost in that. I want to do trial work, and I met with people there who had been working for years and never saw the inside of a courtroom. It felt a lot like I was working on little things that would get put into slightly larger things that would one day make up even bigger things and then way down the line someone else was actually doing the lawyering. I know that it was just being a summer associate, but I didn't see fifth and sixth year associates doing the kind of work that was interesting and meaningful either. There was a serious strata between partners and associates, and I never got any substantive feedback on anything I did. After it was all over, I felt like it was an awesome summer vacation, but other than the great pay and the things I could do with that, my legal skills weren't going to improve very fast there and I wasn't going to really enjoy the work.

On the other hand, when I went to Dallas, it was a different ball game. To give you some idea, the firm I was working at is about 50 attorneys, so not a large firm, but not a little mom and pop shop, either. First off, the climate was very different. All work was substantive, and I was treated essentially as if I was a first year associate. I had work from associates all the way up to the managing partner of the firm, and when I was asked for my opinion on topics, it was actually taken as a legit opinion. I got regular feedback when I asked about it, and they didn't pull any punches when I fucked up, but also didn't give me shit for it, either. In one situation I was asked to do some research on a topic, and when I came in to give my results to the managing partner, he asked what I thought we should do next. I told him we should file Brief XX, and he paused for a second, then asked if I felt comfortable writing it, and so I did. I knew that later on it would get modified if we ever needed to file it, but it felt like at least my work was worthwhile. On top of that, the Dallas firm actually goes to trial on a regular basis, which is exactly what I want to do.

After working for both places, I knew I didn't want to work at Biglaw. There was a 25% pay difference between the two, but in the end it was an easy decision. I also worked for a small firm of about 6 attorneys and got the feel for that as well, and now that I've been in each environment, I took the job at the Dallas firm. I think the number one thing for people to realize is that you need to think about whether you will be happy at a place long term before accepting the job, if you do have the option. If your only concern is how to get the offer, then just bust your ass on your work as best you can, kiss ass (if you are actually trying to get a feel for whether you are a good fit for the firm, then be yourself, but if you just want the job, just make them like you and tell them their shit don't stink and you love them to death - most people in law have healthy egos), and don't drink too much or make a fool of yourself in any way at social functions.

The only errors I've ever heard of at most firms (especially the ones that offer almost everyone, like a lot of Biglaws) are people who act out in some way - be it by getting drunk, saying strange things, or just not fitting in. Personally I don't recommend that if you have options, but if you just need a job then do what you gotta do. I think that people should realize that the most important thing to being a successful person is being happy in what you do. Before law school I had another career for about a decade and I loved my work, and that was why I was willing to put in 12 hour days. If you can't see yourself putting in 10-12 hour days at a law firm from time to time because you love the work you're doing and it interests you, find a different firm.


What is the difference in starting pay and PPP?

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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:08 am

jd20132013 wrote:29 assignments in 9 weeks? That seems...high


I have had 27 in 10.

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traehekat
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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby traehekat » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:20 am

Anonymous User wrote:
jd20132013 wrote:29 assignments in 9 weeks? That seems...high


I have had 27 in 10.


Depends on how broadly you construe "assignment."

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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:51 am

traehekat wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
jd20132013 wrote:29 assignments in 9 weeks? That seems...high


I have had 27 in 10.


Depends on how broadly you construe "assignment."


Shit that got written down on paper.

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glitched
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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby glitched » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:30 pm

manofjustice wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm likely being neurotic, but I was wondering how bad a "fit" problem has to be to warrant a no-offer. I get along with everyone and I'd say lots like me and think I'm funny. There's one male associate, however, who seems to always be staring at me. He'll walk by my office and be looking in or I'll be walking through the hallways. When we make eye contact, he looks away really quickly. Neither of us says anything. We've gone to lunch before, but it feels weird. Is that enough to do it? Also, I'm not too close with my shareholder mentor. He has never given me work. Today he emailed me to tell me that he wouldn't be here my last week, but that he enjoyed working with me. He also wished my good luck with the coming school year. Finally, associate mentor keeps talking about my file and compiling all of my work product. It just makes me nervous. I'm probably being a crazy person though.

It's just bizarre that I keep hearing about compiling work and good luck with the year, when I know summers in other offices are hearing "don't worry. You're fine. If you were getting no-offered, you'd have an idea."

For what it's worth, my firm usually offers 90%+ nationwide. Any thoughts or am I just being an anxious mess?


For staring guy, he's given me about five assignments, no one has had any issues with my work product, and I'm a female if that matters. We've also gone to lunch a couple times too.


He wants to bang you. HTH.


Amazing you can succeed in law school and make it to a large law firm and not pick up on this.


Low self esteem can lead to striving for success in hopes to create value.

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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:36 pm

Make that 28 assignments in 10 weeks. Just got a new one with days left. :D

shock259
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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby shock259 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:00 pm

So when will everyone be hearing back on offer status? My firm has told us that we won't know for a few weeks after the end of the program. Ugh. I'm holding out hope that they are going to surprise us at our end-of-summer review.

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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:29 pm

jd20132013 wrote:29 assignments in 9 weeks? That seems...high



It was. I got there at 8:30 and stay until 7 most nights. Sometimes I have to go home and do another hour or two. The firm generally has a lot of summer associates, but my office has not had any in the past couple of years. There were some long nights. Overall, I greatly enjoyed the experience.

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alicrimson
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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby alicrimson » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:30 pm

glitched wrote:
manofjustice wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm likely being neurotic, but I was wondering how bad a "fit" problem has to be to warrant a no-offer. I get along with everyone and I'd say lots like me and think I'm funny. There's one male associate, however, who seems to always be staring at me. He'll walk by my office and be looking in or I'll be walking through the hallways. When we make eye contact, he looks away really quickly. Neither of us says anything. We've gone to lunch before, but it feels weird. Is that enough to do it? Also, I'm not too close with my shareholder mentor. He has never given me work. Today he emailed me to tell me that he wouldn't be here my last week, but that he enjoyed working with me. He also wished my good luck with the coming school year. Finally, associate mentor keeps talking about my file and compiling all of my work product. It just makes me nervous. I'm probably being a crazy person though.

It's just bizarre that I keep hearing about compiling work and good luck with the year, when I know summers in other offices are hearing "don't worry. You're fine. If you were getting no-offered, you'd have an idea."

For what it's worth, my firm usually offers 90%+ nationwide. Any thoughts or am I just being an anxious mess?




For staring guy, he's given me about five assignments, no one has had any issues with my work product, and I'm a female if that matters. We've also gone to lunch a couple times too.


He wants to bang you. HTH.


Amazing you can succeed in law school and make it to a large law firm and not pick up on this.


Low self esteem can lead to striving for success in hopes to create value.



Agreed. Plus, ugly duckling syndrome is real!!! Was probably too busy making biglaw to date.

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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:36 pm

shock259 wrote:So when will everyone be hearing back on offer status? My firm has told us that we won't know for a few weeks after the end of the program. Ugh. I'm holding out hope that they are going to surprise us at our end-of-summer review.


My firm gave out offers starting today and will continue into tomorrow during summer final reviews. It's great not having to worry about whether or not I'll get when post-SA. Best of Luck to everyone!

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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
shock259 wrote:So when will everyone be hearing back on offer status? My firm has told us that we won't know for a few weeks after the end of the program. Ugh. I'm holding out hope that they are going to surprise us at our end-of-summer review.


My firm gave out offers starting today and will continue into tomorrow during summer final reviews. It's great not having to worry about whether or not I'll get when post-SA. Best of Luck to everyone!


Firm started doing exit interviews today and the general consensus is that we will find out about offers on Thursday.

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alicrimson
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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby alicrimson » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
shock259 wrote:So when will everyone be hearing back on offer status? My firm has told us that we won't know for a few weeks after the end of the program. Ugh. I'm holding out hope that they are going to surprise us at our end-of-summer review.


My firm gave out offers starting today and will continue into tomorrow during summer final reviews. It's great not having to worry about whether or not I'll get when post-SA. Best of Luck to everyone!



So jelly. I don't know when offers will come out. I have an exit interview scheduled for Thursday though.

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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:05 pm

Do you think it's generally true that a positive exit interview (i.e., all good reviews and and all positive comments) = offer? Obviously a negative exit interview would put you on notice of a potential no offer, but I'm wondering if people have positive exit interviews and then get no offered.

Ahhhh, this shit sucks.

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Summerz
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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby Summerz » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:38 pm

FWIW: Most of my SA friends ended their SA this week. Most received offers, a few have to wait until the end of the month when the partners meet. I have not heard of anyone being no-offered. Perhaps ’13 is the turnaround year!

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Flips88
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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby Flips88 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:10 pm

Ugh. starting to get neurotic about things. Recruiting talked about the hiring partners reviewing our summer hours soon. Final reviews should be coming next week too. In the last two years, the office has no offered 1 person out of 100+ SAs. The guy that got no offered apparently just didn't do a whole assignment and ended up forcing an associate to do it. Still, I'm irrationally anxious about all this.

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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:40 pm

shock259 wrote:So when will everyone be hearing back on offer status? My firm has told us that we won't know for a few weeks after the end of the program. Ugh. I'm holding out hope that they are going to surprise us at our end-of-summer review.


I hear back Thursday or Friday, which is the last day for most people in my firm.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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alicrimson
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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby alicrimson » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:45 pm

Summerz wrote:FWIW: Most of my SA friends ended their SA this week. Most received offers, a few have to wait until the end of the month when the partners meet. I have not heard of anyone being no-offered. Perhaps ’13 is the turnaround year!


Wait, your friends who were SA this year or last year? It's Tuesday. How has everyone heard already? Gah. I should stay off of this site. haha.

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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:33 am

botched one assignment. V20 firm with history of 95%+ offer rates. :(

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Summerz
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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby Summerz » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:56 am

alicrimson wrote:
Summerz wrote:FWIW: Most of my SA friends ended their SA this week. Most received offers, a few have to wait until the end of the month when the partners meet. I have not heard of anyone being no-offered. Perhaps ’13 is the turnaround year!


Wait, your friends who were SA this year or last year? It's Tuesday. How has everyone heard already? Gah. I should stay off of this site. haha.

This year, as in the last few days. I know of one person who was offered and then asked to work an extra two weeks. The one constant I heard is that the workload was steady. Looks like the legal economy has finally turned the corner.

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Lasers
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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby Lasers » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:11 am

Summerz wrote:
alicrimson wrote:
Summerz wrote:FWIW: Most of my SA friends ended their SA this week. Most received offers, a few have to wait until the end of the month when the partners meet. I have not heard of anyone being no-offered. Perhaps ’13 is the turnaround year!


Wait, your friends who were SA this year or last year? It's Tuesday. How has everyone heard already? Gah. I should stay off of this site. haha.

This year, as in the last few days. I know of one person who was offered and then asked to work an extra two weeks. The one constant I heard is that the workload was steady. Looks like the legal economy has finally turned the corner.

i wouldn't get too carried away with your anecdotal evidence. there are still layoffs, stealths, and firms that could fail at any moment. the legal market is far from safe.

relying on the word of a few summers regarding the perceived workload at their firms to speak on behalf of the entire legal market seems like an overstep.

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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:03 am

Summerz wrote:
alicrimson wrote:
Summerz wrote:FWIW: Most of my SA friends ended their SA this week. Most received offers, a few have to wait until the end of the month when the partners meet. I have not heard of anyone being no-offered. Perhaps ’13 is the turnaround year!


Wait, your friends who were SA this year or last year? It's Tuesday. How has everyone heard already? Gah. I should stay off of this site. haha.

This year, as in the last few days. I know of one person who was offered and then asked to work an extra two weeks. The one constant I heard is that the workload was steady. Looks like the legal economy has finally turned the corner.

Good to hear, but I'd say most people could say the same thing about their summer classes last year.

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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:41 am

Had my end-of-summer review. Went really well -- all good comments and nothing bad. Fingers crossed for an offer. Nothing much more I can do.

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traehekat
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Re: Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc.

Postby traehekat » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:57 am

Hope you all hear good news, I haven't read anything in this thread that would really have me too concerned about receiving an offer.




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