Summer Associate: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences, etc. Forum

[Morgan12Oak]

V10 SA @ large office w/ questions relating to firm social events: Multiple male attorneys keep pushing me to cheat on my gf with a particular female SA (think: alpha male banter + occasionally shoving me into the female SA). Also, a couple of other attorneys regularly sh*ttalk (not playfully) about other attorneys to the SA class.

Is there a more credited response than simply ignoring these tools?

The correct response is it really doesn't matter what you do. All of the following are appropriate responses that won't lead to any negative consequences: ignoring them, joining in on the shittalk, hooking up with the other SA.

Pretty much the only thing you can do that would get you in trouble is tell the associates to stop shittalking other attorneys or ratting out the attorneys for talking shit to people.

[Pokemon]

V10 SA @ large office w/ questions relating to firm social events: Multiple male attorneys keep pushing me to cheat on my gf with a particular female SA (think: alpha male banter + occasionally shoving me into the female SA). Also, a couple of other attorneys regularly sh*ttalk (not playfully) about other attorneys to the SA class.

Is there a more credited response than simply ignoring these tools?

The correct response is it really doesn't matter what you do. All of the following are appropriate responses that won't lead to any negative consequences: ignoring them, joining in on the shittalk, hooking up with the other SA.

Pretty much the only thing you can do that would get you in trouble is tell the associates to stop shittalking other attorneys or ratting out the attorneys for talking shit to people.

Is this serious...

There are no consequences for example if he joins on the shittalk? So because attorney X at my firm makes fun of attorney Y, when I am with attorney X I can also make fun of attorney Y. There is no possibility that this is a minefield, that it is ok for him to do so, but not for me?

And you think it is fine to try to hook up with an SA because your attorney bros are pushing you? What if she gets offended and complains about you? Will the attorney bros talk to the recruiters and tell them, "oh no worries, we told him to do so."

I rarely, rarely try to judge people and believe in a kind of it is not really my business attitude, but the attorneys here are really crossing lines that no SA should cross or be exposed to within a working environment.

[Scotusnerd]

The correct response is it really doesn't matter what you do. All of the following are appropriate responses that won't lead to any negative consequences: ignoring them, joining in on the shittalk, hooking up with the other SA.

Pretty much the only thing you can do that would get you in trouble is tell the associates to stop shittalking other attorneys or ratting out the attorneys for talking shit to people.

People like you are why I'm so reluctant to go for prestige whoring. I can't stand insufferable douches who think that their ability to pass tests make them superior to others. I particularly can't stand people who use other people as toys.

[Bronte]

Hah. You should probably ask what jurisdiction they want before you research. I've done that and it has saved my ass a few times when the law is insanely different somewhere else.

Oh I definitely ask but both times (and from two different people), it's this vague response - "just feel it out" or something along those lines, which makes me think it's busy work. Regardless, I check the federal and state law of whatever state the case is currently pending in, and hope for the best.

I wouldn't think that because they say "just feel it out" that it's busy work.

First, it's not always that important to use case law from the same jurisdiction. Especially when you're dealing with federal law, the courts often look across jurisdictions. Case law from the same jurisdiction and especially the relevant court of appeals is best, but federal law is supposed to be uniform.

Second, sometimes the first step in a research assignment is to determine which jurisdiction's law to apply. If it's a diversity action, state law applies, but you need to figure out which state's law. If it's an action in federal court in Michigan but Illinois law applies, then you want to look first to Illinois law as determined by Illinois state courts and second to Illinois law as interpreted by federal courts applying Illinois law. If there is a dearth of Illinois precedent on the subject (as determined by either state or federal courts), then you can look to the law of other states.

[A. Nony Mouse]

First, it's not always that important to use case law from the same jurisdiction. Especially when you're dealing with federal law, the courts often look across jurisdictions. Case law from the same jurisdiction and especially the relevant court of appeals is best, but federal law is supposed to be uniform.

Courts really only look across jurisdictions if the law is unsettled in their circuit. Yes, federal law is supposed to be uniform, but it's not always. Your own jurisdiction is always best.

[Bronte]

First, it's not always that important to use case law from the same jurisdiction. Especially when you're dealing with federal law, the courts often look across jurisdictions. Case law from the same jurisdiction and especially the relevant court of appeals is best, but federal law is supposed to be uniform.

Courts really only look across jurisdictions if the law is unsettled in their circuit. Yes, federal law is supposed to be uniform, but it's not always. Your own jurisdiction is always best.

I specifically said that case law from the relevant jurisdiction is best. But I disagree that federal courts only look across jurisdictions when the law is unsettled, unless you're using a pretty capacious definition of unsettled. A lot of times there's just not that much precedent on a particular issue, even if courts uniformly treat the issue. In that case, federal courts readily look across jurisdictions.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I just thought the advice was a little misleading, as it seemed to suggest that out of circuit case law was in some way equally binding as in circuit. (I mean unsettled as in "not established.") It's just that I've dealt with enough 1Ls who offer the wrong jurisdiction, I wanted to comment. (Sorry, less relevant to the 2Ls!)

[AllTheLawz]

The correct response is it really doesn't matter what you do. All of the following are appropriate responses that won't lead to any negative consequences: ignoring them, joining in on the shittalk, hooking up with the other SA.

Pretty much the only thing you can do that would get you in trouble is tell the associates to stop shittalking other attorneys or ratting out the attorneys for talking shit to people.

People like you are why I'm so reluctant to go for prestige whoring. I can't stand insufferable douches who think that their ability to pass tests make them superior to others. I particularly can't stand people who use other people as toys.

Trust me, people who don't have the ability to pass tests find other reasons to think they are superior to others. Most people at prestigious firms are not like this. In addition, it seems like whoever asked this question is incapable of making basic social decisions in life so you probably wouldn't have to communicate with him. Seriously, you should have learned how to handle this situation at least like 7 years ago.

[Scotusnerd]

Trust me, people who don't have the ability to pass tests find other reasons to think they are superior to others. Most people at prestigious firms are not like this. In addition, it seems like whoever asked this question is incapable of making basic social decisions in life so you probably wouldn't have to communicate with him. Seriously, you should have learned how to handle this situation at least like 7 years ago.

Very true. People will always find reasons. But the type of competition the jobs OP is talking about attract more competitive (and hence unpleasant) people. Also, I'm actually not annoyed at the person who posted the question. I've been awkward, I know where he's coming from.

The person who responded, however...yeah.

[Bronte]

I just thought the advice was a little misleading, as it seemed to suggest that out of circuit case law was in some way equally binding as in circuit. (I mean unsettled as in "not established.") It's just that I've dealt with enough 1Ls who offer the wrong jurisdiction, I wanted to comment. (Sorry, less relevant to the 2Ls!)

Yeah, it might have been a bit misleading. I was trying to say that, if your assignor is telling you the jurisdiction doesn't matter or to "just wing it" or whatever it was, it's more likely that you're in a situation where the question is unsettled or not established, meaning you're likely going to be looking across jurisdictions. But another point is that if your assignor gives you an abstract legal question with not accompanying facts, you ask what jurisdiction, and he says "just wing it," then you almost certainly are being asked to look at the whole of the law on the subject.

[Anonymous User]

I split at a Vault firm in DC and a mid sized lit firm in Dallas last summer, and had very different experiences at each.....After working for both places, I knew I didn't want to work at Biglaw.

Anon_8:13 - Any regrets? I'm feel similar in some ways, but I'm much less averse to the work at biglaw.

How much did location factor in to your choice? My firm options are in 2 different markets as well and I think that might wind up pushing me in one direction or the other.

I don't have any regrets at all. Well, I guess I regret a little not making Biglaw bucks, but my pay difference was pretty minimal considering the markets. Actually, with adjusted cost of living in Dallas vs. D.C., even before factoring in no state income tax, I'll be taking home a decent amount more money. But no substantive regrets. I wasn't averse to Biglaw work and I enjoyed my time at the large firm until I made it down to the other firm. Then I realized what it was like to do real work and actually learn things. Additionally, the people were so much more knowledgeable and real. I couldn't see myself going to work and really connecting with the Biglaw people every day.

As for the different markets, I had ties to each, and could definitely see living in both cities. My brother lives in one city and my best friend lives in the other, and he's also a lawyer, so either way I was going to enjoy it. I think people really need to think about what makes them happy. I would recommend getting as many different experiences as possible, even interning during the year or, if your school offers clinics, getting out and working with firms or public services like the DA or something else. The way I knew I had made the right decision is because I have had enough experiences since beginning law school that I knew what made me the happiest and would teach me the most. I worked with a law professor, for a small firm, mid sized firm, and large firm, and also worked with a DA's office. After all that, I knew which was the right fit for me.

[Anonymous User]

How are the other Weil summer associates going to approach 3L OCI?

[Anonymous User]

How are the other Weil summer associates going to approach 3L OCI?

Associate at another big NYC firm here: If you're already a summer at Weil, you aren't in an awful position. The firm doesn't appear to be collapsing and the trimming appeared to be from midlevels/seniors. Weil also already had significant deferral issues, so the writing was kind of already on the wall... you may be able to jump ship if you really want to, but I'm not sure the calculus has actually changed dramatically relative to the moment Weil summers accepted their offers during OCI.

[ZyzzBrah]

Just a random bad/awkward moment fwiw

walked into copier room and guy (of counsel) was shredding papers and so he just stares at me, and I, trying to lighten the mood, say "oh, hey, getting rid of the evidence there?" and he stares at me as says "why would you ever say something like that, its not funny in a law office. its serious"


stay away from humor. Feel like I ruined my chances with the firm, fuark.

[A12345]

Just a random bad/awkward moment fwiw

walked into copier room and guy (of counsel) was shredding papers and so he just stares at me, and I, trying to lighten the mood, say "oh, hey, getting rid of the evidence there?" and he stares at me as says "why would you ever say something like that, its not funny in a law office. its serious"


stay away from humor. Feel like I ruined my chances with the firm, fuark.

lol this is hilarious

[Jacques_Bentley]

Just a random bad/awkward moment fwiw

walked into copier room and guy (of counsel) was shredding papers and so he just stares at me, and I, trying to lighten the mood, say "oh, hey, getting rid of the evidence there?" and he stares at me as says "why would you ever say something like that, its not funny in a law office. its serious"


stay away from humor. Feel like I ruined my chances with the firm, fuark.

lol this is hilarious

This is pretty funny, but don't obsess over it, ZyzzBrah. I made a blunder or two like that and it didn't affect anything. Chances are he didn't think twice about it.

[Jacques_Bentley]

Just a random bad/awkward moment fwiw

walked into copier room and guy (of counsel) was shredding papers and so he just stares at me, and I, trying to lighten the mood, say "oh, hey, getting rid of the evidence there?" and he stares at me as says "why would you ever say something like that, its not funny in a law office. its serious"


stay away from humor. Feel like I ruined my chances with the firm, fuark.

lol this is hilarious

This is pretty funny, but don't obsess over it, ZyzzBrah. I made a blunder or two like that and it didn't affect anything. Chances are he didn't think twice about it.

Oops. This was me. (Accidental anon.)

[ZyzzBrah]

This is pretty funny, but don't obsess over it, ZyzzBrah. I made a blunder or two like that and it didn't affect anything. Chances are he didn't think twice about it.

Im probably over thinking it, but he just like stared at me like i told him i was a necrophiliac. He's also told me (when he first introduced himself) that people will give me more respect than i deserve when i start as a clerk (already got a clerkship). idk, the dude just doesnt like me or maybe hes just not friendly


but srs, it was one of the most awkward moments of my life cause nearly everyone else in the office is very friendly/jokes around.

[TXIPLitigator]

This is pretty funny, but don't obsess over it, ZyzzBrah. I made a blunder or two like that and it didn't affect anything. Chances are he didn't think twice about it.

Im probably over thinking it, but he just like stared at me like i told him i was a necrophiliac. He's also told me (when he first introduced himself) that people will give me more respect than i deserve when i start as a clerk (already got a clerkship). idk, the dude just doesnt like me or maybe hes just not friendly


but srs, it was one of the most awkward moments of my life cause nearly everyone else in the office is very friendly/jokes around.

Dude's got no sense of humor. Makes sense he's a lawyer. Don't sweat it.

[NinerFan]

This is pretty funny, but don't obsess over it, ZyzzBrah. I made a blunder or two like that and it didn't affect anything. Chances are he didn't think twice about it.

Im probably over thinking it, but he just like stared at me like i told him i was a necrophiliac. He's also told me (when he first introduced himself) that people will give me more respect than i deserve when i start as a clerk (already got a clerkship). idk, the dude just doesnt like me or maybe hes just not friendly


but srs, it was one of the most awkward moments of my life cause nearly everyone else in the office is very friendly/jokes around.

Sounds like he's just kind of an ass. Wouldn't worry too much about it.

[drive4showLSAT4dough]

Just a random bad/awkward moment fwiw

walked into copier room and guy (of counsel) was shredding papers and so he just stares at me, and I, trying to lighten the mood, say "oh, hey, getting rid of the evidence there?" and he stares at me as says "why would you ever say something like that, its not funny in a law office. its serious"


stay away from humor. Feel like I ruined my chances with the firm, fuark.

Love it.

[ZyzzBrah]

Just a random bad/awkward moment fwiw

walked into copier room and guy (of counsel) was shredding papers and so he just stares at me, and I, trying to lighten the mood, say "oh, hey, getting rid of the evidence there?" and he stares at me as says "why would you ever say something like that, its not funny in a law office. its serious"


stay away from humor. Feel like I ruined my chances with the firm, fuark.

Update: got onto elevator this morning and who do you think gets on too... But he just stared at his shoes the ride up and didnt say anything (Im a good 8 inches taller than him, so i guess he doesnt wana stare at me).

[Peyton]

Update: got onto elevator this morning and who do you think gets on too... But he just stared at his shoes the ride up and didnt say anything (Im a good 8 inches taller than him, so i guess he doesnt wana stare at me).

I realize that I must be a very special snowflake because I mainly SA from home (with a bloody Mary next to my keyboard), but when I visit my family’s firm everyone there is slammed with work and often working late hours. So, with that in mind how does a traditional firm SA manage to spend lots of time on TLS during the day?

Not enough work or you work for free, what’s up with that?

[jkay]

walked into copier room and guy (of counsel) was shredding papers and so he just stares at me, and I, trying to lighten the mood, say "oh, hey, getting rid of the evidence there?" and he stares at me as says "why would you ever say something like that, its not funny in a law office. its serious"

Dude is wrong, that IS funny.

[NinerFan]

Update: got onto elevator this morning and who do you think gets on too... But he just stared at his shoes the ride up and didnt say anything (Im a good 8 inches taller than him, so i guess he doesnt wana stare at me).

I realize that I must be a very special snowflake because I mainly SA from home (with a bloody Mary next to my keyboard), but when I visit my family’s firm everyone there is slammed with work and often working late hours. So, with that in mind how does a traditional firm SA manage to spend lots of time on TLS during the day?

Not enough work or you work for free, what’s up with that?

Not sure if serious.