S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

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RELIC
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S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby RELIC » Tue May 14, 2013 1:34 am

I start my SA gig next week and I already have sinking feeling that I will be no offered. I know my fear is probably irrational at this point but I can't really shake it.

So I figured I would make this thread for people to give advice, commiserate, complain, or just generally talk about being no offered or the fear of being no offered.

Go.

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LeDique
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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby LeDique » Tue May 14, 2013 1:36 am

I've mentioned it in another thread, but I've heard that Sara Rose, Kid Lawyer is great on what to expect for the daily ins and outs of a biglaw office. It should give you a good idea what to expect. Sara Rose, of course, is now a partner at a v5. It looks like it's currently on back order from other SAs buying it. Maybe you can luck out and your local library will have it?

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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 14, 2013 2:02 am

LeDique wrote:I've mentioned it in another thread, but I've heard that Sara Rose, Kid Lawyer is great on what to expect for the daily ins and outs of a biglaw office. It should give you a good idea what to expect. Sara Rose, of course, is now a partner at a v5. It looks like it's currently on back order from other SAs buying it. Maybe you can luck out and your local library will have it?


Horrendous advice... he won't be able to read/analyze the book in a week... I would recommend this one

http://www.amazon.com/Go-F-Sleep-Adam-M ... 145584165X

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TTRansfer
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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby TTRansfer » Tue May 14, 2013 2:38 am

I have not seen this thread lately. I am glad it was made again.

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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 15, 2013 8:52 pm

Is it a biglaw SA gig? If so, then just stop worrying RIGHT NOW. They are rated on how high their offer rate is, so the firm will do everything in its power to give you an offer. I took a full load of summer classes and had no problem getting an offer, so I was out the door 3 days per week at 5:30 on the nose. In reality, we were all out the door at that time because they didn't want you working overtime either.

If it's midlaw or a small firm, then ignore everything I just said.

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Ludo!
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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby Ludo! » Wed May 15, 2013 8:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is it a biglaw SA gig? If so, then just stop worrying RIGHT NOW. They are rated on how high their offer rate is, so the firm will do everything in its power to give you an offer. I took a full load of summer classes and had no problem getting an offer, so I was out the door 3 days per week at 5:30 on the nose. In reality, we were all out the door at that time because they didn't want you working overtime either.

If it's midlaw or a small firm, then ignore everything I just said.


You should be outted for how stupid this advice is. People at biglaw get no offered too.

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northwood
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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby northwood » Wed May 15, 2013 9:05 pm

hopefully this will not become Vale of Tears, Part 2... but I also have the same snking feeling... made worse because I feel as though I epically failed each and every final that I took.....

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Scotusnerd
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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby Scotusnerd » Wed May 15, 2013 9:23 pm

I've heard the Curmudgeon's Guide to Practicing Law is good. I'm just a 2L though. No SA. But I've heard from others that it's THE book to read.

It's also short and in a fun reading style. I read it in about 2 hours. Plus, I bet most law libraries will have it.

http://www.amazon.com/Curmudgeons-Guide-Practicing-Law/dp/1590316762

He also writes for abovethelaw on occaision...although I don't know if I'd consider that a plus. :)
Last edited by Scotusnerd on Wed May 15, 2013 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 15, 2013 9:26 pm

I have a summer associate working on my team at my law firm.

I am 100% convinced that the summer associate has more power of my career than I have over theirs.

Obviously it really depends on the firm... if it's a smaller firm that tends to do 3 offers for 4 slots or something, prepare for your death match accordingly. If it's a gigantic firm with a gigantic class and a 100% offer rate, try not to puke on the shoes of anybody too important and enjoy your lunches.

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IAFG
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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby IAFG » Wed May 15, 2013 9:26 pm

If it makes you feel better, lots of people feel this way during their summer.

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romothesavior
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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby romothesavior » Wed May 15, 2013 9:58 pm

Ludovico Technique wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is it a biglaw SA gig? If so, then just stop worrying RIGHT NOW. They are rated on how high their offer rate is, so the firm will do everything in its power to give you an offer. I took a full load of summer classes and had no problem getting an offer, so I was out the door 3 days per week at 5:30 on the nose. In reality, we were all out the door at that time because they didn't want you working overtime either.

If it's midlaw or a small firm, then ignore everything I just said.


You should be outted for how stupid this advice is. People at biglaw get no offered too.

And true biglaw firms (i.e., Vault firms) generally work their SAs far harder than a midlaw or small law firm, especially in a secondary market.

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TTRansfer
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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby TTRansfer » Wed May 15, 2013 10:19 pm

Scotusnerd wrote:I've heard the Curmudgeon's Guide to Practicing Law is good. I'm just a 2L though. No SA. But I've heard from others that it's THE book to read.

It's also short and in a fun reading style. I read it in about 2 hours. Plus, I bet most law libraries will have it.

http://www.amazon.com/Curmudgeons-Guide-Practicing-Law/dp/1590316762

He also writes for abovethelaw on occaision...although I don't know if I'd consider that a plus. :)


Yeah, Curmudgeon's is TCR. I posted this in another thread with a similar topic.

Don't bother getting it from the library. Just get your own copy. It's well worth the couple of bucks it costs and will last you more than just a single summer.

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Cavalier
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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby Cavalier » Wed May 15, 2013 10:47 pm

Assuming this is big law, you probably have nothing to worry about as long as you follow at least two of these three rules:

1) Do what you're told. The substance of your assignments probably won't matter much, but if you research the wrong issue, examine the wrong jurisdiction, etc., it'll be obvious that you screwed up.

2) Don't miss deadlines. Ever. None of your assignments are likely to be time sensitive, but if something is due soon, you must do whatever it takes to complete it on time.

3) Don't be too socially awkward. The bar isn't very high, but puking, making sexist jokes, or insulting a partner's second-tier law school to his face (this actually happened) should be avoided.

Seriously, most of the no-offers I've heard about have involved some combination of the above--it takes a lot to get no-offered. Just to be safe, anytime you get an assignment, make sure you are absolutely certain what you're to do, and then make sure you know (a) what jurisdiction it's in, (b) what the assigning attorney expects (an email, a memo, etc.), and (c) if the assigning attorney suggests a page range, whether that's single or double spaced. And before you turn in any assignment or send any email, proofread it multiple times. It's not uncommon for firms to make a binder of every summer associate's assignments for the hiring committee to review. They're not going to know whether you neglected to cite Judge Posner's dissent in your analysis of predatory pricing in the Seventh Circuit, but they will certainly see typos.

rad lulz
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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby rad lulz » Wed May 15, 2013 10:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is it a biglaw SA gig? If so, then just stop worrying RIGHT NOW. They are rated on how high their offer rate is, so the firm will do everything in its power to give you an offer. I took a full load of summer classes and had no problem getting an offer, so I was out the door 3 days per week at 5:30 on the nose. In reality, we were all out the door at that time because they didn't want you working overtime either.

If it's midlaw or a small firm, then ignore everything I just said.

lol @ salaried employees working "overtime"

Myself
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.

Postby Myself » Wed May 15, 2013 11:19 pm

.
Last edited by Myself on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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RELIC
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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby RELIC » Thu May 16, 2013 12:28 am

I like the advice in this thread so far. I can do this. Just basically get clarification on the expectations for the assignment (jurisdiction, length, etc.) upfront. Don't be a weirdo. Don't turn things in late.

I can handle that. Anything else?

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.

Postby Myself » Thu May 16, 2013 12:34 am

.
Last edited by Myself on Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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chrisbru
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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby chrisbru » Thu May 16, 2013 1:24 am

3 days in and loving my firm. Not really a SA, per se, because it's a small (around 15 attorney) firm. There is another clerk besides me though, and we're both about the same grade range from the same school. I'm worried that 1) they won't be able to offer either of us or 2) I'm the one that doesn't get offered and the other clerk does. The worst part is that I like it a lot. If it sucked and I just wanted the job it would be a lot different.

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RELIC
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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby RELIC » Thu May 16, 2013 3:59 am

chrisbru wrote:3 days in and loving my firm. Not really a SA, per se, because it's a small (around 15 attorney) firm. There is another clerk besides me though, and we're both about the same grade range from the same school. I'm worried that 1) they won't be able to offer either of us or 2) I'm the one that doesn't get offered and the other clerk does. The worst part is that I like it a lot. If it sucked and I just wanted the job it would be a lot different.

Did they give you any kind of an indication about whether or not you should expect an offer?

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RELIC
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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby RELIC » Thu May 16, 2013 4:09 am

Anonymous User wrote:Is it a biglaw SA gig? If so, then just stop worrying RIGHT NOW. They are rated on how high their offer rate is, so the firm will do everything in its power to give you an offer. I took a full load of summer classes and had no problem getting an offer, so I was out the door 3 days per week at 5:30 on the nose. In reality, we were all out the door at that time because they didn't want you working overtime either.

If it's midlaw or a small firm, then ignore everything I just said.

It is Big Law. V100. 100% offer rate last year. 100% offer rate the year before but I heard through the grape vine that one of the offers from two years ago was a "cold offer". I can't confirm if that is true or not.

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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby Blessedassurance » Thu May 16, 2013 4:48 am

Scotusnerd wrote:I've heard the Curmudgeon's Guide to Practicing Law is good. I'm just a 2L though. No SA. But I've heard from others that it's THE book to read.

It's also short and in a fun reading style. I read it in about 2 hours. Plus, I bet most law libraries will have it.

http://www.amazon.com/Curmudgeons-Guide-Practicing-Law/dp/1590316762


it's a funny book and a quick-read, which is awesome, but the latter half is dedicated to litigation as distinguished from corporate.

overall, pretty good advice.

also, lol at non-everyday-business-casual-suffocating-in-a-tie-new york-biglaw havers. just lol.

09042014
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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby 09042014 » Thu May 16, 2013 4:55 am

Blessedassurance wrote:
Scotusnerd wrote:I've heard the Curmudgeon's Guide to Practicing Law is good. I'm just a 2L though. No SA. But I've heard from others that it's THE book to read.

It's also short and in a fun reading style. I read it in about 2 hours. Plus, I bet most law libraries will have it.

http://www.amazon.com/Curmudgeons-Guide-Practicing-Law/dp/1590316762


it's a funny book and a quick-read, which is awesome, but the latter half is dedicated to litigation as distinguished from corporate.

overall, pretty good advice.

also, lol at non-everyday-business-casual-suffocating-in-a-tie-new york-biglaw havers. just lol.


NYC isn't business casual?

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thesealocust
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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby thesealocust » Thu May 16, 2013 8:17 am

Desert Fox wrote:
NYC isn't business casual?


Most are. Quin is tanktops & shorts, Cravath is business formal, but business casual is definitely the standard.

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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Thu May 16, 2013 8:33 am

How does this work for 1Ls? I have a 1/2 summer big law SA this summer. Is there a good chance I will be offered a chance to come back 2L summer if I do well? The weird thing about that is I'm almost positive my SA will be done before spring grades come out.

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Re: S.S. Avoiding The Inevitable "No Offer"

Postby thesealocust » Thu May 16, 2013 8:37 am

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:How does this work for 1Ls? I have a 1/2 summer big law SA this summer. Is there a good chance I will be offered a chance to come back 2L summer if I do well? The weird thing about that is I'm almost positive my SA will be done before spring grades come out.


Why would you firm care about your spring grades when they have had time to get to know you and evaluate your work product?

Some might, to some degree, but your on the ground performance is going to dwarf grades in importance, if they care about grades any more at all. Grades are just better than nothing when it comes to hiring sight unseen.

To your original question, 1L SAs most frequently result in offers to return (for a portion of?) 2L summer, rarely a full time offer.




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