Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

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Anonymous User
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Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:34 pm

2L here. My only offer this summer was from a mid-size firm with about 40-50 attorneys. I liked all the people there, liked the location, and obviously with just one offer, I accepted it.

This past weekend, I ran into somebody who got an offer there last year. She said she turned down the offer in part because only two of the three SAs receive offers. I don't know how, but this was something I didn't pick up during my callback.

Anyway, I'm just three weeks away from starting. Aside from hauling ass, what should I be doing this summer to ensure an offer? In addition, how aggressive should I be this summer in getting my resume/cover letters out to other employers?

Thanks.

andythefir
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby andythefir » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:40 pm

I'm in a similar situation and I'm moving forward assuming I won't get an offer to maximize my odds at a soft landing. I'm going to go all out, of course, but also aggressively applying to clerkships, applying other places etc. It's a 2-way choice they made, if they don't want to give 100% offer rates then they can't get offended if you look into other options.

hds2388
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby hds2388 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:43 pm

This is a classic expect the best and plan for the worst scenario.

Expect the best:
Go in assuming you have a chance at getting an offer; don't let the competitiveness or desire to one-up your fellow SA's play into your work style or product. Do your best work, socialize with partners and associates, and take respite in the fact that all other things being equal, you have a better-than-not shot of getting an offer. I had a friend who was in a firm that had a handful of summer associates, none of whom it promised to take or needed to take, and would only take a summer on after graduation if they felt like it was an added asset. She got the offer by working very hard, doing great work, and making the firm like her. This is all you can do.

Plan for the worst:
On the other hand, you partially need to act like you won't get an offer (not while you're at work, but in setting your mindset). I would fully dive into sending your resume out as if you had no job at all. Obviously don't let your summer firm know you're also applying elsewhere (unless they point blank ask, in which case you should just explain that your first and only choice is your SA firm, but you are trying not to close a back out plan if you don't get an offer to come back). If you get no-offered, you'd much rather hit the ground running having already mailed/networked for other jobs than have to deal with getting a fresh start looking in August.

rad lulz
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:46 pm

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MinEMorris
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby MinEMorris » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:41 pm

I agree with RadLulz in the sense that your time is best spent focusing on doing a great job at your summer firm. 2/3 is a lot better odds than anyone has ever had going into 3L OCI. Anything you can do to enhance your chances of an offer, be it perfecting your work or socializing with other attorneys from the firm, is well worth it.

That said, a good use of your free time this summer will be making sure that your resume, writing sample, and everything else you'll need is up-to-date and in order. As radlulz mentioned, clerkship apps would be a solid use of time. Other than these things, I would spend time reading the various resources (such as past threads on TLS) about the 3L job hunt.

Best of luck to you! As others have said, I wouldn't concentrate on competing with the other summers. Relaxed, social, confident and competent are all attractive qualities that I think you would be well-served to demonstrate. Proofread everything multiple times, always be timely, communicate well, complete your assignments thoroughly, go to social events, don't be weird, and ask questions about anything you don't understand (that you can't easily look up yourself)-- this is the classic advice that I've seen over and over from various sources regarding a successful SA experience. HTH.

Anonymous User
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:55 pm

I was in a similar situation last summer. Biglawl firm in smaller market took on way too many SAs. Im not going to lie, knowing that I had a 1/3 chance of getting no-offered really put a cloud over the summer program. Fortunately, I received an offer.

Here are some tips (some of which have already be stated, but I want to reinforce them):

- focus on doing really good work within the designated time frame. The amount of work is far less important than the quality. I did the least amount of projects out of the class by far, but I did them well.

- get to know key partners/hiring partners. They are the ones with the say when hiring comes around. I made sure to make personal connections with all the department heads and the diversity head (im 'diverse'). The best time to do that is obviously over lunch. If your firm doesnt do that, you'll have to stop by their office, or send them an email asking to grab coffee or a drink after work. I did this as well.

- be social with others in your class and with the recruiting coordinator. Yes, you are competing with other SAs, but word gets around if you are a dick - especially in a small class. As for the recruiting coordinator, they are usually in the room when decisions are made and can go to bat for a borderline candidate.

- As rad said, pray. Cause it can be incredibly stressful. Im religious and going to church/praying helped a ton.

- I wouldnt start looking for other firms until after your SA is over, but if there are events with other firms or thrown by the state bar,county bar, etc., no harm in making connections.

Anonymous User
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:45 pm

OP here...thanks for the advice. I guess it seems like a balancing act between gunning hard and just being a chill bro.

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thesealocust
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby thesealocust » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:31 pm

A small child and its parents enter a seafood restaurant. While waiting to place their order, the child goes up to a glass tank filled with various sea creatures, and begins pointing at them in amazement. The child names one of the lobsters Karl, because it seemed to float closer to the class when the kid put its face against it.

When it came time for dinner, one of the child's parents attempted to select Karl for their entree. But the child objected strongly, protesting that they couldn't eat Karl. So a different lobster was chosen.

Your goal is to be the named lobster.

They need to know your name so that when the time comes, they hesitate and decide to feed somebody else to their children.

You must become Karl.

rad lulz
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:33 pm

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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cinephile
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby cinephile » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:57 pm

thesealocust wrote:A small child and its parents enter a seafood restaurant. While waiting to place their order, the child goes up to a glass tank filled with various sea creatures, and begins pointing at them in amazement. The child names one of the lobsters Karl, because it seemed to float closer to the class when the kid put its face against it.

When it came time for dinner, one of the child's parents attempted to select Karl for their entree. But the child objected strongly, protesting that they couldn't eat Karl. So a different lobster was chosen.

Your goal is to be the named lobster.

They need to know your name so that when the time comes, they hesitate and decide to feed somebody else to their children.

You must become Karl.


Thank you for this, I'm actually laughing out loud in the library.

de5igual
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby de5igual » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:04 pm

one upside is that you're at least going into the summer aware of this—the other summers might not know and will go along believing the firm's "you're all going to get an offer!!" spiel.

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AVBucks4239
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby AVBucks4239 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:09 pm

thesealocust wrote:A small child and its parents enter a seafood restaurant. While waiting to place their order, the child goes up to a glass tank filled with various sea creatures, and begins pointing at them in amazement. The child names one of the lobsters Karl, because it seemed to float closer to the class when the kid put its face against it.

When it came time for dinner, one of the child's parents attempted to select Karl for their entree. But the child objected strongly, protesting that they couldn't eat Karl. So a different lobster was chosen.

Your goal is to be the named lobster.

They need to know your name so that when the time comes, they hesitate and decide to feed somebody else to their children.

You must become Karl.

OP, and fuck my anonymity, because this is brilliant.

Anonymous User
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I was in a similar situation last summer. Biglawl firm in smaller market took on way too many SAs. Im not going to lie, knowing that I had a 1/3 chance of getting no-offered really put a cloud over the summer program. Fortunately, I received an offer.

Here are some tips (some of which have already be stated, but I want to reinforce them):

- focus on doing really good work within the designated time frame. The amount of work is far less important than the quality. I did the least amount of projects out of the class by far, but I did them well.

- get to know key partners/hiring partners. They are the ones with the say when hiring comes around. I made sure to make personal connections with all the department heads and the diversity head (im 'diverse'). The best time to do that is obviously over lunch. If your firm doesnt do that, you'll have to stop by their office, or send them an email asking to grab coffee or a drink after work. I did this as well.

- be social with others in your class and with the recruiting coordinator. Yes, you are competing with other SAs, but word gets around if you are a dick - especially in a small class. As for the recruiting coordinator, they are usually in the room when decisions are made and can go to bat for a borderline candidate.

- As rad said, pray. Cause it can be incredibly stressful. Im religious and going to church/praying helped a ton.

- I wouldnt start looking for other firms until after your SA is over, but if there are events with other firms or thrown by the state bar,county bar, etc., no harm in making connections.

How did you know your firm took on too many SAs? I'm going to a firm that has had at or near 100% hiring the past few years, but I noticed they hired a few more than they wrote that they expected on their NALP form. Should I be worried?

09042014
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby 09042014 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I was in a similar situation last summer. Biglawl firm in smaller market took on way too many SAs. Im not going to lie, knowing that I had a 1/3 chance of getting no-offered really put a cloud over the summer program. Fortunately, I received an offer.

Here are some tips (some of which have already be stated, but I want to reinforce them):

- focus on doing really good work within the designated time frame. The amount of work is far less important than the quality. I did the least amount of projects out of the class by far, but I did them well.

- get to know key partners/hiring partners. They are the ones with the say when hiring comes around. I made sure to make personal connections with all the department heads and the diversity head (im 'diverse'). The best time to do that is obviously over lunch. If your firm doesnt do that, you'll have to stop by their office, or send them an email asking to grab coffee or a drink after work. I did this as well.

- be social with others in your class and with the recruiting coordinator. Yes, you are competing with other SAs, but word gets around if you are a dick - especially in a small class. As for the recruiting coordinator, they are usually in the room when decisions are made and can go to bat for a borderline candidate.

- As rad said, pray. Cause it can be incredibly stressful. Im religious and going to church/praying helped a ton.

- I wouldnt start looking for other firms until after your SA is over, but if there are events with other firms or thrown by the state bar,county bar, etc., no harm in making connections.

How did you know your firm took on too many SAs? I'm going to a firm that has had at or near 100% hiring the past few years, but I noticed they hired a few more than they wrote that they expected on their NALP form. Should I be worried?


Not more than normal.

rad lulz
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Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:58 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I was in a similar situation last summer. Biglawl firm in smaller market took on way too many SAs. Im not going to lie, knowing that I had a 1/3 chance of getting no-offered really put a cloud over the summer program. Fortunately, I received an offer.

Here are some tips (some of which have already be stated, but I want to reinforce them):

- focus on doing really good work within the designated time frame. The amount of work is far less important than the quality. I did the least amount of projects out of the class by far, but I did them well.

- get to know key partners/hiring partners. They are the ones with the say when hiring comes around. I made sure to make personal connections with all the department heads and the diversity head (im 'diverse'). The best time to do that is obviously over lunch. If your firm doesnt do that, you'll have to stop by their office, or send them an email asking to grab coffee or a drink after work. I did this as well.

- be social with others in your class and with the recruiting coordinator. Yes, you are competing with other SAs, but word gets around if you are a dick - especially in a small class. As for the recruiting coordinator, they are usually in the room when decisions are made and can go to bat for a borderline candidate.

- As rad said, pray. Cause it can be incredibly stressful. Im religious and going to church/praying helped a ton.

- I wouldnt start looking for other firms until after your SA is over, but if there are events with other firms or thrown by the state bar,county bar, etc., no harm in making connections.

How did you know your firm took on too many SAs? I'm going to a firm that has had at or near 100% hiring the past few years, but I noticed they hired a few more than they wrote that they expected on their NALP form. Should I be worried?


Not more than normal.

MinEMorris
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby MinEMorris » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:48 am

Is there a way to get NALP summer hiring/offer stats further back than a year? I don't see anything on NALP for it.

Anonymous User
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:04 am

Do SAs normally work with partners, if so, how often, or closely? If you are doing good work, wouldn’t this be extremely helpful?

If there are +200 attorneys and only 20 SAs, how is the work distributed (and by whom)? And will you ever see a partner?

Perhaps a tougher question to answer, if you do work with partners and you connect well with one particular partner is it possible to work with that partner more often (without offending other partners). For those who do not work directly with partners, whom do you work for (or report to)?

Anonymous User
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:32 am

Let’s say it is nearing the end of the SA period. Let’s say the firm hasn’t announced any offers. What should I do in regards with the upcoming OCI? Or, let’s say I feel like I probably will get an offer but I am really not thrilled with the firm, how do I proceed with OCI without endangering my possible offer --- as I understand it. 3L job hunting is a nightmare.

rad lulz
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby rad lulz » Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:Let’s say it is nearing the end of the SA period. Let’s say the firm hasn’t announced any offers. What should I do in regards with the upcoming OCI? Or, let’s say I feel like I probably will get an offer but I am really not thrilled with the firm, how do I proceed with OCI without endangering my possible offer --- as I understand it. 3L job hunting is a nightmare.

Register and do 3L OCI. People from your firm shouldn't know or care if offers haven't gone out.

Your 3L OCI will probably be a joke though and barely anyone will get offers from it. My UCLA/USC/Vandy/Tex level school had like 8 employers. You tend to do better if you already have a 3L offer

3L job search possibilities look like this

1) 3L OCI - HAHAURFUCKED

2) Mass mail - low return for even the minimal amount of time it takes to research/mail merge due to the fact that the firms you mail must want to hire and want to hire AT THE TIME you mail and often they are looking to fill a specific practice need

3) Networking - hope you got on that sometime over the past few years

4) Symplicity - low response rate but better than mass mailing because those firms are ACTUALLY hiring when you submit your resume.

5) Whatever your CSO can scrounge up for you - probably nothing

6) Small firm or govt you clerk/intern for during the year - decent option if you can do this; those places may want to hire you or know people who will

If you hate your 2L summer firm you may have to end up taking that offer if you can't get a job before November. Which is a real possibility because there is no 3L hiring "season"

Anonymous User
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:55 am

Aren't you assuming a lot from the fact that one summer didn't get an offer? Maybe usually everyone does, unless they're bonafide retards. You're drawing way too much info from one person not getting a job

rad lulz
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby rad lulz » Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:Aren't you assuming a lot from the fact that one summer didn't get an offer? Maybe usually everyone does, unless they're bonafide retards. You're drawing way too much info from one person not getting a job

If you see a firm that consistently does near 100% offers every year for 10-15 people, they seem to care about offer rates and are probably hiring a few bona fide retards, so if you get an offer from one of those firms at 2L OCI, I'd go with that

Especially considering economic factors ie boutiques tend to not have the ability to forecast business as well and even if they can, they don't have the money to hire one just to preserve high offer rates

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5ky
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby 5ky » Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:55 am

rad lulz wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I was in a similar situation last summer. Biglawl firm in smaller market took on way too many SAs. Im not going to lie, knowing that I had a 1/3 chance of getting no-offered really put a cloud over the summer program. Fortunately, I received an offer.

Here are some tips (some of which have already be stated, but I want to reinforce them):

- focus on doing really good work within the designated time frame. The amount of work is far less important than the quality. I did the least amount of projects out of the class by far, but I did them well.

- get to know key partners/hiring partners. They are the ones with the say when hiring comes around. I made sure to make personal connections with all the department heads and the diversity head (im 'diverse'). The best time to do that is obviously over lunch. If your firm doesnt do that, you'll have to stop by their office, or send them an email asking to grab coffee or a drink after work. I did this as well.

- be social with others in your class and with the recruiting coordinator. Yes, you are competing with other SAs, but word gets around if you are a dick - especially in a small class. As for the recruiting coordinator, they are usually in the room when decisions are made and can go to bat for a borderline candidate.

- As rad said, pray. Cause it can be incredibly stressful. Im religious and going to church/praying helped a ton.

- I wouldnt start looking for other firms until after your SA is over, but if there are events with other firms or thrown by the state bar,county bar, etc., no harm in making connections.

How did you know your firm took on too many SAs? I'm going to a firm that has had at or near 100% hiring the past few years, but I noticed they hired a few more than they wrote that they expected on their NALP form. Should I be worried?


Not more than normal.


If major market especially, yeah, no real need to be worried. Is your firm NYC? I know a few that took on more than projected/past years.

MinEMorris
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby MinEMorris » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:30 am

sorry, not to be annoying and repeat my question, but I'm worried it's unlikely to be read considering its position in the thread now: is there a way to get historical offer rate information for a firm/office beyond the previous year (which is all I can see that NALP offers)?

Anonymous User
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:56 am

Reposting this question. Would love an answer.

Let’s say it is nearing the end of the SA period. Let’s say the firm hasn’t announced any offers. What should I do in regards with the upcoming OCI? Or, let’s say I feel like I probably will get an offer but I am really not thrilled with the firm, how do I proceed with OCI without endangering my possible offer --- as I understand it. 3L job hunting is a nightmare.

de5igual
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Re: Just Learned SA Firm Only Offers 2/3 Summers

Postby de5igual » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:31 am

Anonymous User wrote:Reposting this question. Would love an answer.

Let’s say it is nearing the end of the SA period. Let’s say the firm hasn’t announced any offers. What should I do in regards with the upcoming OCI? Or, let’s say I feel like I probably will get an offer but I am really not thrilled with the firm, how do I proceed with OCI without endangering my possible offer --- as I understand it. 3L job hunting is a nightmare.


rad lulz wrote:Register and do 3L OCI. People from your firm shouldn't know or care if offers haven't gone out.

Your 3L OCI will probably be a joke though and barely anyone will get offers from it.


question asked. question answered.




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