Taking time off from summer firm

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Anonymous User
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Re: Taking time off from summer firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 04, 2013 11:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am the best man in a wedding coming up this summer (after my 2L SA will be over), and the bachelor party falls about 2/3 of the way into my SA. When should I tell my firm that I would like to take a Friday off during the summer for this bachelor party? I figure the sooner the better, but was wondering if I should notify them now (before starting) or wait until I start my summer?

Taking time off from a 2L SA for a bachelor party seems like an astronomically dumb idea. Maybe a wedding that you're the best man in, maybe. But definitely not a bachelor party.


I just told my childhood best friend I couldn't be her bridesmaid in four weeks after all. I based this on the fact that I once worked in an office that would get extremely upset when people took off for weddings, and often told them upfront that this was not considered a legitimate excuse for time off.


When I was an SA, at least a couple of people took a day or two off for weddings. No problems.

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Re: Taking time off from summer firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 05, 2013 12:48 am

OP here. This thread clearly shows there's a sharp divide between those who say, "don't take off at all," and those who say, "take off," with a few saying, "play it by ear."

My firm (historically) has not always given out offers to everyone. Obviously, this should be taken into consideration, even though I have no idea why those past SAs were no-offered.

I think the best course of action for me - and for anyone else in a similar situation currently or in the future - is to simply feel out the firm for the first week to see if they seem like they would be happy to give some time off. If I do decide to take time off, it won't be for the entire day. Additionally, it would be wise to avoid mentioning the phrase, "bachelor party," as most people immediately think of the Hangover after hearing those words.

I appreciate hearing both sides of the issue in this thread, as I now realize that taking off for an event that is important to me might not seem very important to others (i.e., partners), however reasonable or unreasonable you think that is. Previously, I had viewed taking this time off as not such a big deal, but I see the other perspective better now. But I still think the only correct approach is to wait to make a decision. I won't be able to make a decision until I can better decide if the firm will be ok with this. Only then can I even start to weigh the risks.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Taking time off from summer firm

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sun May 05, 2013 11:26 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. This thread clearly shows there's a sharp divide between those who say, "don't take off at all," and those who say, "take off," with a few saying, "play it by ear."

My firm (historically) has not always given out offers to everyone. Obviously, this should be taken into consideration, even though I have no idea why those past SAs were no-offered.

I think the best course of action for me - and for anyone else in a similar situation currently or in the future - is to simply feel out the firm for the first week to see if they seem like they would be happy to give some time off. If I do decide to take time off, it won't be for the entire day. Additionally, it would be wise to avoid mentioning the phrase, "bachelor party," as most people immediately think of the Hangover after hearing those words.

I appreciate hearing both sides of the issue in this thread, as I now realize that taking off for an event that is important to me might not seem very important to others (i.e., partners), however reasonable or unreasonable you think that is. Previously, I had viewed taking this time off as not such a big deal, but I see the other perspective better now. But I still think the only correct approach is to wait to make a decision. I won't be able to make a decision until I can better decide if the firm will be ok with this. Only then can I even start to weigh the risks.

Sounds like you've got a good handle on things. Good luck.

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Re: Taking time off from summer firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 05, 2013 10:09 pm

TTRansfer wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:This actually happened. No matter how good you are, if the wrong partner decides to hate you, you will not get an offer.


I actually don't believe that was the reason he was no-offered. I just don't buy it.


1) This was in 2010 (one of the worst years for SAs), so that may have contributed to his prob.

2) It really depends on the firm culture, but yes, this does happen. A hiring partner is really at the mercy of some other partners. If one partner has a bad opinion of you, it may be toast. Some circumstances where one partner can axe you include (from anecdotes of others I know who got no-offered, and from a friends on hiring committees):

1) where one partner is the head of a practice group, and you are in that group;

2) where one partner is seen as a golden boy/ all-star with the firm and has a ton of credibility with the team. Basically, if he usually says positive things about people, but doesn't like you for some reason, then you may be DOA;

3) the partner is one of the few who runs the office/ an office rainmaker/ fifedom owner within the firm;

4) the firm really didn't have much to evaluate you on (e.g., you are in corporate group and were only staffed on two diligence projects the whole summer);

5) all of the other summers did extremely well, and the bad review makes you stick out;

6) the bad review happens at a time when it is sure to make a huge impression (at the beginning, or at the end).

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reasonable_man
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Re: Taking time off from summer firm

Postby reasonable_man » Tue May 07, 2013 7:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. This thread clearly shows there's a sharp divide between those who say, "don't take off at all," and those who say, "take off," with a few saying, "play it by ear."

My firm (historically) has not always given out offers to everyone. Obviously, this should be taken into consideration, even though I have no idea why those past SAs were no-offered.

I think the best course of action for me - and for anyone else in a similar situation currently or in the future - is to simply feel out the firm for the first week to see if they seem like they would be happy to give some time off. If I do decide to take time off, it won't be for the entire day. Additionally, it would be wise to avoid mentioning the phrase, "bachelor party," as most people immediately think of the Hangover after hearing those words.

I appreciate hearing both sides of the issue in this thread, as I now realize that taking off for an event that is important to me might not seem very important to others (i.e., partners), however reasonable or unreasonable you think that is. Previously, I had viewed taking this time off as not such a big deal, but I see the other perspective better now. But I still think the only correct approach is to wait to make a decision. I won't be able to make a decision until I can better decide if the firm will be ok with this. Only then can I even start to weigh the risks.


Good man.

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TTRansfer
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Re: Taking time off from summer firm

Postby TTRansfer » Wed May 08, 2013 10:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. This thread clearly shows there's a sharp divide between those who say, "don't take off at all," and those who say, "take off," with a few saying, "play it by ear."

My firm (historically) has not always given out offers to everyone. Obviously, this should be taken into consideration, even though I have no idea why those past SAs were no-offered.

I think the best course of action for me - and for anyone else in a similar situation currently or in the future - is to simply feel out the firm for the first week to see if they seem like they would be happy to give some time off. If I do decide to take time off, it won't be for the entire day. Additionally, it would be wise to avoid mentioning the phrase, "bachelor party," as most people immediately think of the Hangover after hearing those words.

I appreciate hearing both sides of the issue in this thread, as I now realize that taking off for an event that is important to me might not seem very important to others (i.e., partners), however reasonable or unreasonable you think that is. Previously, I had viewed taking this time off as not such a big deal, but I see the other perspective better now. But I still think the only correct approach is to wait to make a decision. I won't be able to make a decision until I can better decide if the firm will be ok with this. Only then can I even start to weigh the risks.


Good call, dude. Like I said -- you can just ask them at some point. Just make sure that any action you take (re: taking time off) is brought up with plenty of time to go before the date and that you get the all good signal from them. You may want to talk to some associates about it if they summered at the firm.

lawyerdown27
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Re: Taking time off from summer firm

Postby lawyerdown27 » Wed May 08, 2013 11:33 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. This thread clearly shows there's a sharp divide between those who say, "don't take off at all," and those who say, "take off," with a few saying, "play it by ear."

My firm (historically) has not always given out offers to everyone. Obviously, this should be taken into consideration, even though I have no idea why those past SAs were no-offered.

I think the best course of action for me - and for anyone else in a similar situation currently or in the future - is to simply feel out the firm for the first week to see if they seem like they would be happy to give some time off. If I do decide to take time off, it won't be for the entire day. Additionally, it would be wise to avoid mentioning the phrase, "bachelor party," as most people immediately think of the Hangover after hearing those words.

I appreciate hearing both sides of the issue in this thread, as I now realize that taking off for an event that is important to me might not seem very important to others (i.e., partners), however reasonable or unreasonable you think that is. Previously, I had viewed taking this time off as not such a big deal, but I see the other perspective better now. But I still think the only correct approach is to wait to make a decision. I won't be able to make a decision until I can better decide if the firm will be ok with this. Only then can I even start to weigh the risks.


Just be careful if/when you "spin" the "bachelor party" thing. If you say something like "wedding-related event," that could get you into "well, what kind of..." Basically, try not to put yourself in a position where you would be compelled to lie. I'm sure you already knew that, but hey jussayin'...

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TTRansfer
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Re: Taking time off from summer firm

Postby TTRansfer » Wed May 08, 2013 11:46 am

lawyerdown27 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here. This thread clearly shows there's a sharp divide between those who say, "don't take off at all," and those who say, "take off," with a few saying, "play it by ear."

My firm (historically) has not always given out offers to everyone. Obviously, this should be taken into consideration, even though I have no idea why those past SAs were no-offered.

I think the best course of action for me - and for anyone else in a similar situation currently or in the future - is to simply feel out the firm for the first week to see if they seem like they would be happy to give some time off. If I do decide to take time off, it won't be for the entire day. Additionally, it would be wise to avoid mentioning the phrase, "bachelor party," as most people immediately think of the Hangover after hearing those words.

I appreciate hearing both sides of the issue in this thread, as I now realize that taking off for an event that is important to me might not seem very important to others (i.e., partners), however reasonable or unreasonable you think that is. Previously, I had viewed taking this time off as not such a big deal, but I see the other perspective better now. But I still think the only correct approach is to wait to make a decision. I won't be able to make a decision until I can better decide if the firm will be ok with this. Only then can I even start to weigh the risks.


Just be careful if/when you "spin" the "bachelor party" thing. If you say something like "wedding-related event," that could get you into "well, what kind of..." Basically, try not to put yourself in a position where you would be compelled to lie. I'm sure you already knew that, but hey jussayin'...


Just say it's a wedding or a family event. I wouldn't go any further in depth than that. They won't ask you for any more information than they need.

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Re: Taking time off from summer firm

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 08, 2013 11:54 am

TTRansfer wrote:
lawyerdown27 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here. This thread clearly shows there's a sharp divide between those who say, "don't take off at all," and those who say, "take off," with a few saying, "play it by ear."

My firm (historically) has not always given out offers to everyone. Obviously, this should be taken into consideration, even though I have no idea why those past SAs were no-offered.

I think the best course of action for me - and for anyone else in a similar situation currently or in the future - is to simply feel out the firm for the first week to see if they seem like they would be happy to give some time off. If I do decide to take time off, it won't be for the entire day. Additionally, it would be wise to avoid mentioning the phrase, "bachelor party," as most people immediately think of the Hangover after hearing those words.

I appreciate hearing both sides of the issue in this thread, as I now realize that taking off for an event that is important to me might not seem very important to others (i.e., partners), however reasonable or unreasonable you think that is. Previously, I had viewed taking this time off as not such a big deal, but I see the other perspective better now. But I still think the only correct approach is to wait to make a decision. I won't be able to make a decision until I can better decide if the firm will be ok with this. Only then can I even start to weigh the risks.


Just be careful if/when you "spin" the "bachelor party" thing. If you say something like "wedding-related event," that could get you into "well, what kind of..." Basically, try not to put yourself in a position where you would be compelled to lie. I'm sure you already knew that, but hey jussayin'...


Just say it's a wedding or a family event. I wouldn't go any further in depth than that. They won't ask you for any more information than they need.

Thanks guys (OP here). Definitely valid points!

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TTRansfer
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Re: Taking time off from summer firm

Postby TTRansfer » Wed May 08, 2013 11:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks guys (OP here). Definitely valid points!


I think you'll be fine. You seem like a smart enough guy since you actually can take advice, hah. A rare attribute not normally seen in stubborn ass law students.

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Re: Taking time off from summer firm

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 09, 2013 10:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:
TTRansfer wrote:
lawyerdown27 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here. This thread clearly shows there's a sharp divide between those who say, "don't take off at all," and those who say, "take off," with a few saying, "play it by ear."

My firm (historically) has not always given out offers to everyone. Obviously, this should be taken into consideration, even though I have no idea why those past SAs were no-offered.

I think the best course of action for me - and for anyone else in a similar situation currently or in the future - is to simply feel out the firm for the first week to see if they seem like they would be happy to give some time off. If I do decide to take time off, it won't be for the entire day. Additionally, it would be wise to avoid mentioning the phrase, "bachelor party," as most people immediately think of the Hangover after hearing those words.

I appreciate hearing both sides of the issue in this thread, as I now realize that taking off for an event that is important to me might not seem very important to others (i.e., partners), however reasonable or unreasonable you think that is. Previously, I had viewed taking this time off as not such a big deal, but I see the other perspective better now. But I still think the only correct approach is to wait to make a decision. I won't be able to make a decision until I can better decide if the firm will be ok with this. Only then can I even start to weigh the risks.


Just be careful if/when you "spin" the "bachelor party" thing. If you say something like "wedding-related event," that could get you into "well, what kind of..." Basically, try not to put yourself in a position where you would be compelled to lie. I'm sure you already knew that, but hey jussayin'...


Just say it's a wedding or a family event. I wouldn't go any further in depth than that. They won't ask you for any more information than they need.

Thanks guys (OP here). Definitely valid points!


BTW, I'm the dude who told the cryptic stories above. There was also a guy when I was an SA who was upfront about having to fly out of state for a Friday wedding and activities. The attorneys thought it was fine and he got an offer.

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Re: Taking time off from summer firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 12, 2013 11:42 am

Don't how helpful this is OP, since this represents only one firm's policy, but here's something concrete and current from my firm's (V10, if that matters) memo to incoming summers:

"Personal Days
Our previous request for start and end dates has prompted questions about our policy regarding days off. The Firm allows summer associates to take up to three unpaid personal days during the summer to accommodate various personal or law school related obligations. These days are not meant as a substitute for vacation; vacations should be planned before or after your scheduled dates of employment at Simpson. Absences during the work day, including late arrivals or early departures from the office for personal reasons, need to have the approval of the teams with which you will work; the Recruiting Department should also be informed of any absence of a day or more, so that the appropriate payroll forms can be processed. Please note we do not allow any days off during your first week at the Firm."


At the very least, this confirms that multiple people have asked the same question you're contemplating asking.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Taking time off from summer firm

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sun May 12, 2013 6:26 pm

FYI the name of your firm is in the quote, in case you care (since you were vague about it in your post).

sparty99
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Re: Taking time off from summer firm

Postby sparty99 » Sun May 12, 2013 6:48 pm

Geez. It's one freaking day. Tell them you have a wedding/family event to go to and you would like that day off. It is a Friday in the summer. They are professionals. They will understand. However, under no circumstances mention that it is a bachelor party. Under. No. Circumstances.

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TTRansfer
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Re: Taking time off from summer firm

Postby TTRansfer » Sun May 12, 2013 10:54 pm

sparty99 wrote:Geez. It's one freaking day. Tell them you have a wedding/family event to go to and you would like that day off. It is a Friday in the summer. They are professionals. They will understand. However, under no circumstances mention that it is a bachelor party. Under. No. Circumstances.


Don't even say wedding. Just say family event.

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Re: Taking time off from summer firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 12, 2013 11:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Don't how helpful this is OP, since this represents only one firm's policy, but here's something concrete and current from my firm's (V10, if that matters) memo to incoming summers:

"Personal Days
Our previous request for start and end dates has prompted questions about our policy regarding days off. The Firm allows summer associates to take up to three unpaid personal days during the summer to accommodate various personal or law school related obligations. These days are not meant as a substitute for vacation; vacations should be planned before or after your scheduled dates of employment at Simpson. Absences during the work day, including late arrivals or early departures from the office for personal reasons, need to have the approval of the teams with which you will work; the Recruiting Department should also be informed of any absence of a day or more, so that the appropriate payroll forms can be processed. Please note we do not allow any days off during your first week at the Firm."


At the very least, this confirms that multiple people have asked the same question you're contemplating asking.


About 3x more generous than my firm's explicit one personal day during your 10-12 week summer policy (also V10 if that matters).




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