330 days after graduation..... no job

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Anonymous User
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330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:51 pm

I know there is a thread for 3Ls that are unemployed and looking for jobs, but I don't think there is a thread for those who have graduated and are almost a year out of school without a job, so here it is.

Personal Stats: Graduated May 2012, Top-10%, Top-30 school, all the usual extracurricular's associated with that rank. Worked for a small firm and in-house at a corporation for 2L and 3L (including summers). I am almost barred (awaiting final swearing in ceremony sometime in the next 2 weeks).

Anybody else out there from Class of 2012 still searching? What jobs are you looking at now? What kind of responses have you gotten from firms, government agencies, etc.?

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BarbellDreams
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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:06 pm

If you failed the bar your chances were obviously severely undercut by then. Also, what have you been doing to actually look for work? Are you actively pursuing every single opportunity or are you sitting around browsing craigslist and symplicity everyday and thats it? Honestly the amount of jobs available to you without being barred is very low to begin with so I'd make a plan of attack for when you're finally licensed as it may be a different story.

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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:15 pm

Passed the bar last July. My character and fitness app just took a lot longer to process.

I have kept the same job I had during 3L essentially working about 35 hours a week. I don't call it a "job" because it has no long-term potential. I have been networking through this job and have had a few interviews as a result. I look at symplicity and apply through jobs that way and I have also sent my resume out to pretty much all of the local firms that specialize in the practice area I am interested in. Maybe I need to expand my practice focus (currently soft-side IP).

Once I get barred I plan to join the county bar association and the IP practice area group and network through these organizations. I am working on several articles to get published in local attorney magazines, all focused on IP issues.

Is it really as simple as becoming licensed? I feel like I have made some solid contacts but I haven't had any success in turning interviews into jobs.

Agent
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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby Agent » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:27 pm

Mind shooting me a PM?

Anonymous User wrote:Passed the bar last July. My character and fitness app just took a lot longer to process.

I have kept the same job I had during 3L essentially working about 35 hours a week. I don't call it a "job" because it has no long-term potential. I have been networking through this job and have had a few interviews as a result. I look at symplicity and apply through jobs that way and I have also sent my resume out to pretty much all of the local firms that specialize in the practice area I am interested in. Maybe I need to expand my practice focus (currently soft-side IP).

Once I get barred I plan to join the county bar association and the IP practice area group and network through these organizations. I am working on several articles to get published in local attorney magazines, all focused on IP issues.

Is it really as simple as becoming licensed? I feel like I have made some solid contacts but I haven't had any success in turning interviews into jobs.

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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:44 pm

So you do have a job and also it took almost a year to pass your character and fitness?

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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So you do have a job and also it took almost a year to pass your character and fitness?


Jesus, man. Is that anywhere near normal?

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5ky
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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby 5ky » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So you do have a job and also it took almost a year to pass your character and fitness?


Jesus, man. Is that anywhere near normal?


Definitely would be normal for a state like New York. I know a few second year attorneys who still haven't been sworn in.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:55 pm

This is really strange. First, the character and fitness thing makes no sense. Second, I've heard of top 10% not employed at graduation, but a year later? OP good luck I think you will find something soon.

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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:03 pm

I didn't get my character and fitness stuff in until after I took the bar, so it's my fault that it took so long. And okay maybe saying "no job" in the title was a little extreme. Yes I am working now but it isn't exactly a job that I would characterize as a "bar passage required" job. Maybe thats because I am still considered a "law clerk/intern". The fact that it has no likelihood of turning into a permanent job makes it seem like I am in this professional purgatory.

I love what I am doing now and am trying to leverage it into a job, whether that means getting a job through a contact my boss knows or securing the company as a client when I work at another firm or start my own firm. When I said "no job" I just meant that what I have now is not the kind of permanent job that most people think would be a job in the traditional sense.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:07 pm

What is your current job and how much are you making? Sounds like you may already have a set up that many dream of anyway.

Also, its not as easy as getting licensed, but not being licensed will absolutely hold you back.

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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:17 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:What is your current job and how much are you making? Sounds like you may already have a set up that many dream of anyway.

Also, its not as easy as getting licensed, but not being licensed will absolutely hold you back.


+1

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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:17 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:What is your current job and how much are you making? Sounds like you may already have a set up that many dream of anyway.

Also, its not as easy as getting licensed, but not being licensed will absolutely hold you back.


Primarily soft IP stuff in area of trademarks, copyrights, and design patents. All of the matters I work on are transactional and include filing trademark apps, responding to office actions, drafting license agreements, counseling the general counsel on all trademark issues, writing company trademark policies, and providing opinions on infringement. I've done a couple litigation/ADR things like drafting complaints, managing disputes involving domain names, and doing initial due diligence in infringement suits.

I make $20/hr.

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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:What is your current job and how much are you making? Sounds like you may already have a set up that many dream of anyway.

Also, its not as easy as getting licensed, but not being licensed will absolutely hold you back.


Primarily soft IP stuff in area of trademarks, copyrights, and design patents. All of the matters I work on are transactional and include filing trademark apps, responding to office actions, drafting license agreements, counseling the general counsel on all trademark issues, writing company trademark policies, and providing opinions on infringement. I've done a couple litigation/ADR things like drafting complaints, managing disputes involving domain names, and doing initial due diligence in infringement suits.

I make $20/hr.[/quote

From the OP I assumed your situation was much worse. This is admittedly not a great outcome (again I think you will find something else). But it sounds like you are making 40-50k in a jd required job).

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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:15 am

It's tough to complain that you don't have a bar-passage-required job when you haven't been sworn in yet, though, don't you think?

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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:31 am

Anonymous User wrote:It's tough to complain that you don't have a bar-passage-required job when you haven't been sworn in yet, though, don't you think?


Touché I guess. I just find it puzzling that some of my classmates secured employment between the time they took the bar and the time they received their results. I understand the logic of why you have to be barred before getting a job offer but I just don't understand why it doesn't always play out that way in real life.

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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:35 am

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:What is your current job and how much are you making? Sounds like you may already have a set up that many dream of anyway.

Also, its not as easy as getting licensed, but not being licensed will absolutely hold you back.


Primarily soft IP stuff in area of trademarks, copyrights, and design patents. All of the matters I work on are transactional and include filing trademark apps, responding to office actions, drafting license agreements, counseling the general counsel on all trademark issues, writing company trademark policies, and providing opinions on infringement. I've done a couple litigation/ADR things like drafting complaints, managing disputes involving domain names, and doing initial due diligence in infringement suits.

I make $20/hr.[/quote

From the OP I assumed your situation was much worse. This is admittedly not a great outcome (again I think you will find something else). But it sounds like you are making 40-50k in a jd required job).



Just out of curiosity, how do you repay your loans on that? I maybe facing a similar situation a few months from now.

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TTH
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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby TTH » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:59 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:What is your current job and how much are you making? Sounds like you may already have a set up that many dream of anyway.

Also, its not as easy as getting licensed, but not being licensed will absolutely hold you back.


Primarily soft IP stuff in area of trademarks, copyrights, and design patents. All of the matters I work on are transactional and include filing trademark apps, responding to office actions, drafting license agreements, counseling the general counsel on all trademark issues, writing company trademark policies, and providing opinions on infringement. I've done a couple litigation/ADR things like drafting complaints, managing disputes involving domain names, and doing initial due diligence in infringement suits.

I make $20/hr.[/quote

From the OP I assumed your situation was much worse. This is admittedly not a great outcome (again I think you will find something else). But it sounds like you are making 40-50k in a jd required job).



Just out of curiosity, how do you repay your loans on that? I maybe facing a similar situation a few months from now.


IBR, although calling that "repaying" loans is a bit of an overstatement.

Sorry for your troubles, OP. I worry I'll be joining you shortly.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Passed the bar last July. My character and fitness app just took a lot longer to process.

I have kept the same job I had during 3L essentially working about 35 hours a week. I don't call it a "job" because it has no long-term potential. I have been networking through this job and have had a few interviews as a result. I look at symplicity and apply through jobs that way and I have also sent my resume out to pretty much all of the local firms that specialize in the practice area I am interested in. Maybe I need to expand my practice focus (currently soft-side IP).

Once I get barred I plan to join the county bar association and the IP practice area group and network through these organizations. I am working on several articles to get published in local attorney magazines, all focused on IP issues.

Is it really as simple as becoming licensed? I feel like I have made some solid contacts but I haven't had any success in turning interviews into jobs.


It sounds like you're in some kind of staff attorney/law clerkish type position and that your boss doesn't want to keep you around in the long-term as an associate even after you get your bar number, is that right?

I assume you eventually want to litigate soft IP cases, correct? Trying to break into a soft IP practice (where you're actually handling big-ticket cases in this area) is going to be impossible without getting experience as a bona fide associate at a firm that handles plenty of soft IP work. These firms are extremely rare. I know at my biglaw firm we handle quite a bit of patent work, but the copyright/trademark/trade secret cases are few and far between (although there are more cases which tangentially touch on issues arising under these areas of law). You should probably expand your practice area focus.

If you want to do transactional work, you'll have to expand beyond soft IP transactional work if you ever want to make more than 75k or so. There's just not enough licensing work for you to make more than this if you don't handle patent licenses.

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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:18 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
It sounds like you're in some kind of staff attorney/law clerkish type position and that your boss doesn't want to keep you around in the long-term as an associate even after you get your bar number, is that right?

Trying to break into a soft IP practice (where you're actually handling big-ticket cases in this area) is going to be impossible without getting experience as a bona fide associate at a firm that handles plenty of soft IP work. These firms are extremely rare. I know at my biglaw firm we handle quite a bit of patent work, but the copyright/trademark/trade secret cases are few and far between (although there are more cases which tangentially touch on issues arising under these areas of law). You should probably expand your practice area focus.


Thanks for the advice. As to your question about my status, yes that essentially sums up my situation.

I will broaden my practice area focus. I took mostly IP classes in school but I am open to practicing in any area of law as long as it gives me a job. My IP focus in law school and clerking positions won't be a weakness in my contact with firms about positions that are not related to IP, will it? The reason I ask is because most attorney's I talk to say they are only interested in hiring new associates that have 1-2 years (or whatever amount) in X area of law. I feel like I could pick up just about any area of law, I just need to weave a narrative that makes the experience I have gained in matters I have worked on at my current job transferable to these other areas of law.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
It sounds like you're in some kind of staff attorney/law clerkish type position and that your boss doesn't want to keep you around in the long-term as an associate even after you get your bar number, is that right?

Trying to break into a soft IP practice (where you're actually handling big-ticket cases in this area) is going to be impossible without getting experience as a bona fide associate at a firm that handles plenty of soft IP work. These firms are extremely rare. I know at my biglaw firm we handle quite a bit of patent work, but the copyright/trademark/trade secret cases are few and far between (although there are more cases which tangentially touch on issues arising under these areas of law). You should probably expand your practice area focus.


Thanks for the advice. As to your question about my status, yes that essentially sums up my situation.

I will broaden my practice area focus. I took mostly IP classes in school but I am open to practicing in any area of law as long as it gives me a job. My IP focus in law school and clerking positions won't be a weakness in my contact with firms about positions that are not related to IP, will it? The reason I ask is because most attorney's I talk to say they are only interested in hiring new associates that have 1-2 years (or whatever amount) in X area of law. I feel like I could pick up just about any area of law, I just need to weave a narrative that makes the experience I have gained in matters I have worked on at my current job transferable to these other areas of law.


If you can pick up a bit of work on patent licenses, I think it would make you a much better candidate for transactional jobs. Any chance you could do this? If so, I would put it front and center on your resumes/cover letters. There's a lot more demand for saavy patent licensing attorneys than there is for other kinds of IP. You don't need to be a patent attorney or agent to do this kind of work, but it certainly wouldn't hurt. I assume you don't have the requisite technical background to become a patent attorney, right?

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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Correct, no technical background. That's a great idea. I could ask my current boss for some of this work. How extendable is my existing experience into other areas of law? Obviously, I have very little litigation experience. I think I am more interested in transactional law anyways. I have some public law experience because I clerked for a city's attorney's office during a semester in school. However, it isn't an area I have an extensive background in.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Correct, no technical background. That's a great idea. I could ask my current boss for some of this work. How extendable is my existing experience into other areas of law? Obviously, I have very little litigation experience. I think I am more interested in transactional law anyways. I have some public law experience because I clerked for a city's attorney's office during a semester in school. However, it isn't an area I have an extensive background in.


It's not very extensible at all given that you have no technical background, no litigation experience, and no M&A experience. Overall, I'd say just try to get staffed on the biggest variety of assignments you can find: litigation, transactional, etc. Then play up the experience on your resume. Couple that with top 10% grades, and you should find an associate position at a decent firm after you get your bar number.

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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:27 pm

I have some contract drafting experience as well. I have drafted sales agreements, website terms of use, and confidentiality/non-disclosure agreements. When I get barred I also have a friend who I will be setting up a non-profit for. Even if this work is not in an official capacity (might be pro bono), is that something that I can hold out on my resume?

BeenDidThat
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Re: 330 days after graduation..... no job

Postby BeenDidThat » Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I have some contract drafting experience as well. I have drafted sales agreements, website terms of use, and confidentiality/non-disclosure agreements. When I get barred I also have a friend who I will be setting up a non-profit for. Even if this work is not in an official capacity (might be pro bono), is that something that I can hold out on my resume?


Hell yes. Sell the shit out of yourself. Every angle you can. You had great grades in school, and you'll have some experience. Let every damn employer in a 50-mile radius know these things.




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