This Summer is Going to Suck

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
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Anonymous User
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Top 1/3 OP at T-14. Got no firms... though I guess people in my place are more common.
I still think OP might be a flame however because a lot of the details provided will not really matter for the firm search. Law review executive board + moot court are usually Spring things, and by that time the big firm boat has left.


OP here. Not flaming. A biglaw firm recently opened an office in my city and came to our spring OCI. Struck out with them and the remaining midlaw firms that came.

Maybe the above poster is right in saying that I'm not actually interviewing well. I don't know what else to pin it on. But, I'm definitely not someone that you would likely view as "aspie." I'm generally pretty outgoing and a strong public speaker.

Anyway. I'm now massmailing local plaintiffs firms with good reputations to try and snag something for the second half of the summer that won't be a major blemish on my resume.


I'm in a somewhat similar boat. I don't have as stellar credentials but still T20 school, journal, pretty good grades etc --- OCI Bust. Best of luck amigo. Hope things turn out well.

rad lulz
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:37 pm

bananapeanutbutter wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
bananapeanutbutter wrote: This is something I don't get. If all firms pay the same why would it ever be worth it to throw but a few bids at top firms? Why not "settle" for firms ranked 50-60, any firm paying 160k? It's not like anybody cares IRL what firm you work at. Nobody knows.


Exit options.

It's still pretty hefty on the risk-reward assessment. I normally just assume I'm terrible at everything that can't be statistically measured to play it safe. i'd think if anyone has a shot at a firm job without a 2l SA it's op. i'd imagine u can just be honest about bidding wrong, etc.?

Think about it like this:

There are quite a bit of firms that will hire people from top schools with blah to moderately good grades

However, there are a TON of people at top schools with those grades, which makes for stiff competition

Furthermore, when you have top 10% grades and try to bid for those firms, they (rightly) assume that you will take a "better" offer if you get one

So while those firms are less grade-conscious, they are not "safeties"

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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:39 pm

OP if it makes you feel any better I also have solid biglaw credentials (top 20% at T10) and struck out of my first 40 screeners / callbacks. Ended up with one offer on a mass mailing whim, so I can't complain about outcome. I think my main issues were bidding (wrong markets) and probably interviewing, although I never really figured out what I was doing wrong with interviewing.

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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:41 pm

below median at a TT. got a sweet gig lined up through NETWORKING. Did you not Network at all? URe creds. are stellar bro, but that doesn't mean shit if you don't know people, or don't know how to talk to them.

Truly best of luck but grades are only half the game and you are not entitled to anything, even if you did Moot and LR and blah blah blah. Tap your contacts, or make some and network like a mf-er. People like to work with people they can relate to, know, or can get along with. Make that shit happen.

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:41 pm

rad lulz wrote:
bananapeanutbutter wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
bananapeanutbutter wrote: This is something I don't get. If all firms pay the same why would it ever be worth it to throw but a few bids at top firms? Why not "settle" for firms ranked 50-60, any firm paying 160k? It's not like anybody cares IRL what firm you work at. Nobody knows.


Exit options.

It's still pretty hefty on the risk-reward assessment. I normally just assume I'm terrible at everything that can't be statistically measured to play it safe. i'd think if anyone has a shot at a firm job without a 2l SA it's op. i'd imagine u can just be honest about bidding wrong, etc.?

Think about it like this:

There are quite a bit of firms that will hire people from top schools with blah to moderately good grades

However, there are a TON of people at top schools with those grades, which makes for stiff competition

Furthermore, when you have top 10% grades and try to bid for those firms, they (rightly) assume that you will take a "better" offer if you get one

So while those firms are less grade-conscious, they are not "safeties"

so what you're saying is if you have top grades you get the opportunity to work for the top firms where there's less candidates, but you're not a "shoe in" as much as one can be at much lower ranked firms that are happy just to get median students?

rad lulz
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP if it makes you feel any better I also have solid biglaw credentials (top 20% at T10) and struck out of my first 40 screeners / callbacks. Ended up with one offer on a mass mailing whim, so I can't complain about outcome. I think my main issues were bidding (wrong markets) and probably interviewing, although I never really figured out what I was doing wrong with interviewing.

I'm not sure that's gonna make OP feel better

There is a world of difference between 0 and 1

All you need is 1

rad lulz
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:43 pm

bananapeanutbutter wrote:so what you're saying is if you have top grades you get the opportunity to work for the top firms where there's less candidates, but you're not a "shoe in" as much as one can be at much lower ranked firms that are happy just to get median students?

Basically

Still a much better place to be that medianbros though obviously

Anonymous User
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP if it makes you feel any better I have also easy biglaw credentials (top 20% at T10) and struck out of my first 40 screeners / callbacks. Ended up with one offer on a mass mailing whim, so I can't complain about outcome. I think my main issues were bidding (wrong markets) and probably interviewing, although I never really figured out what I was doing wrong with interviewing.


I've worried my problem could be interviewing as well. I generally see myself as a pretty likable guy but who the hell knows.

Has anyone availed themselves of mock interviews through CSO? I know ours will do a few practice runs to help you "mold" some answers to tricky questions like "why do you suck so bad no one would hire you before this? And, while we're on the topic of sucking, exactly how bad do you want this job?..."

CSO pro tip: no teeth, finish like a champ

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TTH
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby TTH » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:below median at a TT. got a sweet gig lined up through NETWORKING. Did you not Network at all? URe creds. are stellar bro, but that doesn't mean shit if you don't know people, or don't know how to talk to them.

Truly best of luck but grades are only half the game and you are not entitled to anything, even if you did Moot and LR and blah blah blah. Tap your contacts, or make some and network like a mf-er. People like to work with people they can relate to, know, or can get along with. Make that shit happen.


Sup Gatriel?

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:45 pm

rad lulz wrote:
bananapeanutbutter wrote:so what you're saying is if you have top grades you get the opportunity to work for the top firms where there's less candidates, but you're not a "shoe in" as much as one can be at much lower ranked firms that are happy just to get median students?

Basically

Still a much better place to be that medianbros though obviously

what do you talk about interviews? i've noticed when i speak about law or what i feel like i'm supposed to talk about i get a lot of looking at watches, and when i just talk about something unrelated i get them talking and animated and then am much more likely to get offered....... but i've had 0 big law interviews. these are small firm, ra, etc. i am great at killing time..... not great at interesting on topic convo unless that topic is about food, sports, music or any other useless material.

Anonymous User
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:46 pm

TTH wrote:Sup Gatriel?
Nope, but glad there is another one of me out there. Below Median at a TT is a depressing place to be without a job.

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thesealocust
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby thesealocust » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:47 pm

It sounds like you got obsessed with the trees and never found your way through the forest. Based on the way you write here, I wouldn't be surprised if the semi-entitled, I've jumped-through-your-hoops-now-render-unto-original-poster-that-which-is-original-poster's attitude carried over to interviews. Even in a subtle way, it could poison the well.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:48 pm

OP, what are you doing the first half of the summer, and how did you get that gig?

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Nelson
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby Nelson » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:49 pm

Knowing what market(s) OP bid on would be helpful.

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:49 pm

thesealocust wrote:It sounds like you got obsessed with the trees and never found your way through the forest. Based on the way you write here, I wouldn't be surprised if the semi-entitled, I've jumped-through-your-hoops-now-render-unto-original-poster-that-which-is-original-poster's attitude carried over to interviews. Even in a subtle way, it could poison the well.

so are you saying being overconfident at these things is bad?

what is the ideal? are you trying to come off as a really smart and professional bro, or supremely confident aggressive?

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Shammis
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby Shammis » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:50 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:OP, what are you doing the first half of the summer, and how did you get that gig?

TCQ

rad lulz
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:51 pm

bananapeanutbutter wrote:what do you talk about interviews?

Depends on what the position is

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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:52 pm

rad lulz wrote:
bananapeanutbutter wrote:what do you talk about interviews?

Depends on what the position is

160k. standard.

rad lulz
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:52 pm

bananapeanutbutter wrote:what is the ideal? are you trying to come off as a really smart and professional bro, or supremely confident aggressive?

Try to act like a normal human and stop stressing over Qs like these

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Shammis
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby Shammis » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:53 pm

bananapeanutbutter wrote:supremely confident aggressive?


lol despite your stellar stats...you have nothing to be supremely confident and agressive about. Being that way will def. get you no-offered.

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:54 pm

rad lulz wrote:
bananapeanutbutter wrote:what is the ideal? are you trying to come off as a really smart and professional bro, or supremely confident aggressive?

Try to act like a normal human and stop stressing over Qs like these

does anyone have like a shot if they get nervous? alcohol shot.
Last edited by bananapeanutbutter on Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:55 pm

Shammis wrote:
bananapeanutbutter wrote:supremely confident aggressive?


lol despite your stellar stats...you have nothing to be supremely confident and agressive about. Being that way will def. get you no-offered.

not stellar. i'd fake the confidence, and let myself be aggressive - whatever they want, i will be it.

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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:55 pm

thesealocust wrote:It sounds like you got obsessed with the trees and never found your way through the forest. Based on the way you write here, I wouldn't be surprised if the semi-entitled, I've jumped-through-your-hoops-now-render-unto-original-poster-that-which-is-original-poster's attitude carried over to interviews. Even in a subtle way, it could poison the well.


That may be the case. I hope that I don't come off as entitled, because, at this point, I definitely don't feel entitled. As far as networking goes, I am putting most my eggs in the clerkship basket right now. I am lucky to have a couple of professors and practitioners and the judges that I interned for willing to vouch for me, we'll see how all goes.

Honestly, I think the problem in interviews is that I appear too nice to be interested in litigation. I'm generally a pretty laid back guy and never express aggression against someone who is not an opponent in a competition. What I need to work in is conveying that I am capable of turning on the brutally calculating litigator mindset when in an adversarial position but prefer not to in normal interactions. Also, I look really young when I'm shaven, although I'm in my near-late 20s.

rad lulz
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:56 pm

bananapeanutbutter wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
bananapeanutbutter wrote:what do you talk about interviews?

Depends on what the position is

160k. standard.

Shoot the shit. Talk about what you want to do. Talk about stuff you like at their firm. Ask them some decent questions. Be a normal human. It isn't rocket science.

Firm interviews are easy

Shit I've had more challenging interviews for unpaid internships.

rad lulz
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:56 pm

bananapeanutbutter wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
bananapeanutbutter wrote:what is the ideal? are you trying to come off as a really smart and professional bro, or supremely confident aggressive?

Try to act like a normal human and stop stressing over Qs like these

does anyone have like a shot if they get nervous? alcohol shot.

I know you're probably trolling but I've known people to do this before phone interviews




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