This Summer is Going to Suck

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
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Renne Walker
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:12 am

Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby Renne Walker » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:11 pm

Lincoln wrote:
Why are you so obsessed with this "certification"? I've literally never heard of it before. I'm sure the experience is better than not having it, but mouse is right: it's not the type of experience you will use at a firm, so I doubt it's a ticket to a firm jerb.


I have only ever been in one interview. I would have killed to have had something to say other than Times Square looked cool and I was prepared for the LS challenge. I could not even talk about grades because they had not been released. I discussed my desire to work in communications law (to a firm not handling communications law).

My point, short of throwing down a bag full of As and telling the firm they have till the end of the day to make an offer, you best have something compelling to convey. For those soon facing interviews, they would be far better off talking about their learning experiences in the courtroom then those in the classroom. And yes, what one actually learns as a Certified Legal Intern might help close the deal . . after 10 weeks in BL I can say it will not be less useful than what you learn in LS.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:23 pm

Renne Walker wrote:
Lincoln wrote:
Why are you so obsessed with this "certification"? I've literally never heard of it before. I'm sure the experience is better than not having it, but mouse is right: it's not the type of experience you will use at a firm, so I doubt it's a ticket to a firm jerb.


I have only ever been in one interview. I would have killed to have had something to say other than Times Square looked cool and I was prepared for the LS challenge. I could not even talk about grades because they had not been released. I discussed my desire to work in communications law (to a firm not handling communications law).

My point, short of throwing down a bag full of As and telling the firm they have till the end of the day to make an offer, you best have something compelling to convey. For those soon facing interviews, they would be far better off talking about their learning experiences in the courtroom then those in the classroom. And yes, what one actually learns as a Certified Legal Intern might help close the deal . . after 10 weeks in BL I can say it will not be less useful than what you learn in LS.

What you're really saying is that it helps to have experience you can talk about in interviews. Certified Legal Intern isn't really the point - there are lots and lots and lots of ways to get experience. And your experience isn't "being a certified legal intern" - your experience is working for the PD, DA, legal aid, small firm, whatever - wherever you do the internship. It just seems you're focusing on the wrong end of the stick. (Also, if grades hadn't even been released when you interviewed, you're talking about 1L - you wouldn't have been able to work as a certified legal intern yet.)

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Renne Walker
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby Renne Walker » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:31 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote: (Also, if grades hadn't even been released when you interviewed, you're talking about 1L - you wouldn't have been able to work as a certified legal intern yet.)

True. All my little tip was meant to do was assist those who did not land an SA and are looking for an avenue that might help them close the deal. Good tip or not, do not know.... I have never been an intern before. My cohorts seem to think it has advantages, That's all.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby Blessedassurance » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:37 pm

Renne Walker wrote: My point, short of throwing down a bag full of As and telling the firm they have till the end of the day to make an offer, you best have something compelling to convey. For those soon facing interviews, they would be far better off talking about their learning experiences in the courtroom then those in the classroom. And yes, what one actually learns as a Certified Legal Intern might help close the deal . . after 10 weeks in BL I can say it will not be less useful than what you learn in LS.


Maybe the fact that you only had one interview is the issue here. Biglaw doesn't care about this stuff. Hell, I doubt having paralegal experience prior to law school makes a discernible difference, but I could be wrong. Every interview I've been on didn't discuss anything related to the law except to ask what area I was interested in, or the occasional jovial question about my favorite class. Then again, mileage may vary.

Maybe this "certification" matters for shitlaw, i don't know, but I highly doubt it matters for biglaw.

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:52 am

This is a rough situation, but you have legal skills. You can write briefs, and are probably easy to get along with. Can't you do something? Even just networking with an unemployed attorney with some skills? There's got to be away you can work for clients. It's not bad but if you started now just working under a licensed attorney unemployed from last year's class you're bound to not be as incompetent as many lawyers out there.

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bk1
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby bk1 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:19 am

Are you talking about things like Illinois' 711 license? If so, I highly doubt getting one beforehand matters since it is so easy to pick up after you have the internship.

ksllaw
Posts: 312
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:17 pm

Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby ksllaw » Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:04 am

re: job interviews and "faking" a persona

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks-_Mh1QhMc

OP (and others who brought this topic up),

I'm by no means an expert on the psychology of behavior, body language, and perception (particularly in job interview situations), but I think you may find some interesting insights from this TED talk (link above) from Harvard Business School Professor, Amy Cuddy, on the topic. It's about 20 minutes long and actually has quite an emotionally stirring conclusion to it.

She gives a talk on what our body language tells others about us and also the notion of whether we can "fake it until we make it" (pretending to be a certain way that appeals to employers, despite not feeling that way inside) in business/work and social situations. There was specific mention of an experiment involving people who acted outwardly more "powerful," while feeling the opposite inwardly, in an effort to appeal to employers' notions of what was deemed desirable in employees during their interviews with them. And the research found (if I remember correctly) that that "faking it until you make it" actually worked.

But it goes further than that. It also addresses the issue of whether a person can actually maintain this "fake" identity or persona over the long run...and the results were interesting - I'll leave it at that. :D I'm not sure how I feel about the suggestions and research (I'm looking into it more myself) and do not profess to be an expert on the topic, but it may be something you finding interesting, helpful, and a place to start and also think deeper about in terms of how you may want to approach job interviewing and presenting yourself.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273138
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:53 pm

ksllaw wrote:re: job interviews and "faking" a persona

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks-_Mh1QhMc

OP (and others who brought this topic up),

I'm by no means an expert on the psychology of behavior, body language, and perception (particularly in job interview situations), but I think you may find some interesting insights from this TED talk (link above) from Harvard Business School Professor, Amy Cuddy, on the topic. It's about 20 minutes long and actually has quite an emotionally stirring conclusion to it.

She gives a talk on what our body language tells others about us and also the notion of whether we can "fake it until we make it" (pretending to be a certain way that appeals to employers, despite not feeling that way inside) in business/work and social situations. There was specific mention of an experiment involving people who acted outwardly more "powerful," while feeling the opposite inwardly, in an effort to appeal to employers' notions of what was deemed desirable in employees during their interviews with them. And the research found (if I remember correctly) that that "faking it until you make it" actually worked.

But it goes further than that. It also addresses the issue of whether a person can actually maintain this "fake" identity or persona over the long run...and the results were interesting - I'll leave it at that. :D I'm not sure how I feel about the suggestions and research (I'm looking into it more myself) and do not profess to be an expert on the topic, but it may be something you finding interesting, helpful, and a place to start and also think deeper about in terms of how you may want to approach job interviewing and presenting yourself.


OP here. This is actually a really interesting TED talk. I'm generally pretty conscious of my body language, but this really put it on top of my list of things to focus on improving. Thanks for the link.




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