This Summer is Going to Suck

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bananapeanutbutter
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:46 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
bananapeanutbutter wrote:It seems obvious why you'd get no offered; same reasons you'd get fired.

Unless it's a firm that isn't planning to make 100% offers.

Idk it seems like if you take it really seriously, engage everyone you meet and put on your shit eating lips, it'd be solid at most large firms. At least from above the law articles.

Dude, you go on thinking it could never happen to you.

Nah, well i need an SA position before i can stress about it.

I'm very much stress on 1 step at a time. I can't handle stressing 3, 4 steps ahead. That'd just take away the little happiness I have in this zero-sum game.

Stuff like the economy can't be controlled. The grade job think sucks. I was seriously hoping to take it easy after 1l.

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:
bananapeanutbutter wrote:It seems obvious why you'd get no offered; same reasons you'd get fired.

Unless it's a firm that isn't planning to make 100% offers.

Idk it seems like if you take it really seriously, engage everyone you meet and put on your shit eating lips, it'd be solid at most large firms. At least from above the law articles.



FWIW that's not necessarily true. I got no offered due to a gpa drop after the firm made the SA offer. When the firm asked for transcript updates after the program was over...cold shoulder. Probably should have gone to them about the gpa on my own earlier in the summer but I got some shitty advice from cso to not tell them and "let my work product speak for itself"...yeah that worked out real well.

how big of a drop, and what firm?

i'm sure economics factored in, but why would they care so much about a grade job? aren't you just showing them baseline intelligent, and it's obvious you'll drop once you've achieved your goal being that these classes won't help you be a great lawyer anyway sans experience?

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Blessedassurance
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby Blessedassurance » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:People get no-offered at my firm simply because the hiring partner gets too many SAs who accept offers. What most people don't realize is that firms are guessing at how many people will accept their offers because most firms don't have super high yield rates. For my summer class, everyone on the hiring committee knew that one of us was not going to make it from the beginning of the summer because we had one more person above the absolute limit of how many SAs they had wanted to hire. After that, it comes down to work product quality and purely economic considerations: does the person have credentials that will add value to the firm, does the person want to be in a practice area that is booming or slow, etc. In order to be no-offered for "fit" or personality, you have to be a real mouth-breather. But, then again, judging from some of the aspies on this site, I wouldn't be surprised if there are some people who regularly post on here who got no offered because they are completely fucking annoying and most regular people wouldn't be able to stand talking to them for 10 minutes, let alone working with them for a few years.


these issues are basically what i was trying to ascertain with my question. in short, whether the no-offer (considering he had multiple offers) was basically due to pure luck (picking the wrong firm) or something else. a lot of people just insist on an ostrich-mentality and try to avoid the naked truth that this whole thing is nothing but a series of endless gambles. the fact that you can do all the right things and still get no-offered is a truth some are not willing to accept. I was just trying to find out what happened in his situation. granted, there might be issues with saying too much that might out him, but the initial responses were frankly baffling...

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:05 am

bananapeanutbutter wrote:i'm sure economics factored in, but why would they care so much about a grade job? aren't you just showing them baseline intelligent, and it's obvious you'll drop once you've achieved your goal being that these classes won't help you be a great lawyer anyway sans experience?

The point isn't whether firms should care about a grade drop, the point is that some of them do (and no, not everyone's grades drop once they get an SA) (no offense meant to the person whose grades did drop).

Anonymous User
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:16 am

bananapeanutbutter wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
bananapeanutbutter wrote:It seems obvious why you'd get no offered; same reasons you'd get fired.

Unless it's a firm that isn't planning to make 100% offers.

Idk it seems like if you take it really seriously, engage everyone you meet and put on your shit eating lips, it'd be solid at most large firms. At least from above the law articles.



FWIW that's not necessarily true. I got no offered due to a gpa drop after the firm made the SA offer. When the firm asked for transcript updates after the program was over...cold shoulder. Probably should have gone to them about the gpa on my own earlier in the summer but I got some shitty advice from cso to not tell them and "let my work product speak for itself"...yeah that worked out real well.

how big of a drop, and what firm?

i'm sure economics factored in, but why would they care so much about a grade job? aren't you just showing them baseline intelligent, and it's obvious you'll drop once you've achieved your goal being that these classes won't help you be a great lawyer anyway sans experience?


I won't say what firm but it was biglaw in a major city. The drop was fairly significant. I didn't fail any classes but I had one pretty bad round of grades - gpa dropped from + to - range. Ive kept up with one of the partners who told me flat out they were gonna be sticklers about gpa cut offs no matter what. Granted, when they made the SA offer I was definitely right on their margin. But I was still pretty damn pissed about it. They could have asked for an explanation, cso could have given better advice...but at the end of the day it was mostly my doing. Just remember, nothing's a done deal until it's done.

But it's ok, I load up on scratch offs every time I hit up the 7-11 now, I'm gonna hit it big soon.

On a serious note though, if you do get no offered, try to keep up with lawyers at the firm you had a good connection with. The partner I mentioned has given me some good advice since then and has kept his ear out for any other ways I might have back into the firm, as unlikely as that might be.

rad lulz
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby rad lulz » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:03 am

I read in "Vale" that some dood asked someone from his old firm for a good reference, dude said he'd give him one, then torpedoed him for another job.

So there's that

Srsly just read those threads I mentioned

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RELIC
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby RELIC » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:31 am

I underperformed at OCI as well. Things worked out fine but I don't think people on TLS realize how much interview skills can dictate your OCI outcome. It won't make up for bad grades but it can certainly ruin your chances even with awesome grades.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:34 am

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Last edited by Myself on Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby rad lulz » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:35 am

Also OP does have a job with a small firm

Myself
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Postby Myself » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:07 pm

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Last edited by Myself on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby bk1 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:13 pm

ajax adonis wrote:
bananapeanutbutter wrote:Aren't the call backs you're in if you don't mess up?


If this was ever true, it's not anymore.

Both these blanket statements are wrong. Look at what people said above. It is really firm dependent. S&C might give offers to almost every CB. Other firms might give 1 offer for every 20 CBs.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:47 pm

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Last edited by Myself on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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thesealocust
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby thesealocust » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:08 pm

Just pull up the NALP data. IIRC, the average giant NYC firms gives 60% or so offers to people it calls back, but the average for all bigish firms is under 50% by a good margin.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:16 pm

thesealocust wrote:Just pull up the NALP data. IIRC, the average giant NYC firms gives 60% or so offers to people it calls back, but the average for all bigish firms is under 50% by a good margin.


Link to CB data on NALP? 50% seems a bit high ITE.

Anonymous User
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:21 pm

I'm a 2L. Top 20 law school. Right at median. Secondary journal board position. Working at a school clinic that does what I want to ultimately do. Haven't been able to even get an interview for anything since striking out at OCI. Still have nothing for the summer. Feels bad...

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a 2L. Top 20 law school. Right at median. Secondary journal board position. Working at a school clinic that does what I want to ultimately do. Haven't been able to even get an interview for anything since striking out at OCI. Still have nothing for the summer. Feels bad...


Sorry about your situation. Hopefully you aren't taking on a lot of debt? What area of law are you interested it?

Anonymous User
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a 2L. Top 20 law school. Right at median. Secondary journal board position. Working at a school clinic that does what I want to ultimately do. Haven't been able to even get an interview for anything since striking out at OCI. Still have nothing for the summer. Feels bad...


Same position... --ImageRemoved--

Anonymous User
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:29 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm a 2L. Top 20 law school. Right at median. Secondary journal board position. Working at a school clinic that does what I want to ultimately do. Haven't been able to even get an interview for anything since striking out at OCI. Still have nothing for the summer. Feels bad...


Sorry about your situation. Hopefully you aren't taking on a lot of debt? What area of law are you interested it?

Interested in transactional work. My debt will be under 80k.

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h_jane_w
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby h_jane_w » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Top 10% at a top 20 law school? Check. Law review? Check. Moot court team? Check. Win multiple moot court competitions? Check. Make the highest grade in multiple law school classes? Check. Get elected to the law review’s executive board? Check. Tutor 1L students? Check. Intern for some of the most prestigious federal and state judges in the state? Check.

Find gainful (and decent) employment? . . .

Not trying to boast too much, but I've absolutely killed it in law school. I just got a rejection letter from my last shot at a decent firm job this summer. I'll be working for < $1000 per week for half the summer and taking classes the second half unless some miracle happens. I was recently elected to one of the top four position on my school's law review. Needless to say, I'm surrounded by people who have amazing summers lined up.

Anyone else kill it and strike out miserably? I've been told I interview well, so I don't really know why the more than 30 screeners and callbacks I've had resulted in absolutely nil, but it sucks and now I'm whining.

It's probably time for me to get back to the outlining, but fuck me if I can find some motivation.


this blows. time for wine. life is unfair.

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thesealocust
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby thesealocust » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:38 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Just pull up the NALP data. IIRC, the average giant NYC firms gives 60% or so offers to people it calls back, but the average for all bigish firms is under 50% by a good margin.


Link to CB data on NALP? 50% seems a bit high ITE.


I think you may have misread what I wrote -

thesealocust wrote:under 50% by a good margin.


Anyway, the data is scattered throughout this doc: http://www.nalp.org/uploads/Perspective ... uiting.pdf

Their overall number is 44.2% of callbacks turning into offers (page 18)

Another
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Postby Another » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:10 pm

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Last edited by Another on Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:19 pm

2L. T20 school. Top 10%. Champ of 2 skills competitions, sit on 2 skills boards. Prior work experience.

It's April and I have had maybe 3 interviews out of over a thousand apps sent since I failed to even get a screener at OCI. No offers.

I don't understand.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND. :evil:

Anonymous User
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:22 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Just pull up the NALP data. IIRC, the average giant NYC firms gives 60% or so offers to people it calls back, but the average for all bigish firms is under 50% by a good margin.


Link to CB data on NALP? 50% seems a bit high ITE.


I think you may have misread what I wrote -

thesealocust wrote:under 50% by a good margin.


Anyway, the data is scattered throughout this doc: http://www.nalp.org/uploads/Perspective ... uiting.pdf

Their overall number is 44.2% of callbacks turning into offers (page 18)


I will vouch for this.. I accepted 10 or 11 callbacks. Results were 4 offers, 4 rejections and accepted an offer before hearing from the remainder.

redsox550
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby redsox550 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:2L. T20 school. Top 10%. Champ of 2 skills competitions, sit on 2 skills boards. Prior work experience.

It's April and I have had maybe 3 interviews out of over a thousand apps sent since I failed to even get a screener at OCI. No offers.

I don't understand.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND. :evil:


holy crap dude. I feel bad and am pretty nervous now. Before I started law shcool I thought top 10%at t50's was a lock for OCI, luckily Ive been doing well so far, but that is scarrrry!

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thesealocust
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Re: This Summer is Going to Suck

Postby thesealocust » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:59 pm

redsox550 wrote:Before I started law shcool I thought top 10%at t50's was a lock for OCI


:shock:




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