2L Summer Firm - Can it Hurt Your Resume?

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Re: 2L Summer Firm - Can it Hurt Your Resume?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:28 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Sheffield wrote:
thesealocust wrote:There are - and I'm quoting this from actual stats, not making shit up - approximately 98.4% fewer 3L big firm job openings than there were 2L big firm job openings.

Those stats are puzzling. If the top 100 BL firms each average hiring 20 2L SAs, that would total 2,000. It would mean that there are only 32 3L SAs — that averages out to 0 3Ls at 68 BL firms. Does that not seem way too low?


There are roughly 5,000 big law 2L SAs / entry level big law positions per year, and last year there were 80 total biglaw offers made to 3Ls.


What's your source? I can think of 10 3Ls off the top of my head who got offers...so you're saying I personally know 10% of all the 3Ls in entire nation who got offers? Doubtful.

I don't doubt that the ratio of 3L to 2L offers is much less than favorable but I feel like it can't be nearly so astronomical as you say.

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thesealocust
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Re: 2L Summer Firm - Can it Hurt Your Resume?

Postby thesealocust » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:30 pm

http://www.nalp.org/uploads/Perspective ... uiting.pdf

NALP wrote:In total fewer than 100 offers were made to 3Ls nationwide by respondents to NALP's survey


NALP wrote:Because a number of the offices which did interview 3Ls ultimately made no offers, the 280 accepted call-back invitations resulted in only 82 offers

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Re: 2L Summer Firm - Can it Hurt Your Resume?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:45 pm

thesealocust wrote:http://www.nalp.org/uploads/PerspectivesonFall2012LawStudentRecruiting.pdf

NALP wrote:In total fewer than 100 offers were made to 3Ls nationwide by respondents to NALP's survey


NALP wrote:Because a number of the offices which did interview 3Ls ultimately made no offers, the 280 accepted call-back invitations resulted in only 82 offers


Image

Sounds like I've gotta pray to God, Shiva, Bill Murray and L. Ron Hubbard to either get really lucky or to land a fed clerkship...

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thesealocust
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Re: 2L Summer Firm - Can it Hurt Your Resume?

Postby thesealocust » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:47 pm

Like I said, It's the fall that's gonna kill ya.

: )

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Re: 2L Summer Firm - Can it Hurt Your Resume?

Postby rad lulz » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
What's your source? I can think of 10 3Ls off the top of my head who got offers...so you're saying I personally know 10% of all the 3Ls in entire nation who got offers? Doubtful.

I don't doubt that the ratio of 3L to 2L offers is much less than favorable but I feel like it can't be nearly so astronomical as you say.

Maybe some people got offers from non-NALP firms (like boutiques or whatever), or got offers with firms who didn't send in the NALP forms, or got job offers in the spring, but I doubt in changes the calculus that much

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Re: 2L Summer Firm - Can it Hurt Your Resume?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:05 pm

OK - depressing realities aside. Assuming I somehow got some Big Law (ok Mid-Law too...sigh) interviews as a 3L, my question remains. Has anyone heard of a firm looking negatively upon previous employment? In this case, insurance defense/some plaintiff work/some commercial lit. Not ambulance chasing though.

Can someone please answer without a lecture. Looking for a simple yes or no and maybe some specifics.

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thesealocust
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Re: 2L Summer Firm - Can it Hurt Your Resume?

Postby thesealocust » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:06 pm

No. It won't be seen as a negative factor.

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Re: 2L Summer Firm - Can it Hurt Your Resume?

Postby rad lulz » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:15 pm

I'd rather work at a firm just so you could say you enjoy working at law firms and are committed to private law firms or some shit.

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Re: 2L Summer Firm - Can it Hurt Your Resume?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:19 pm

thesealocust wrote:No. It won't be seen as a negative factor.


Thank you. I realize my question may seem arrogant, after all I am in a tight spot and beggars can't be choosers but I'm just trying to 1) get as much info on my options as possible and 2) trying to remain optimistic - can't hurt.

Do you mind if I ask what your perspective is? Student? Practitioner? Random guy on the internet who likes to trol law school internet forums?

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Re: 2L Summer Firm - Can it Hurt Your Resume?

Postby thesealocust » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
thesealocust wrote:No. It won't be seen as a negative factor.


Thank you. I realize my question may seem arrogant, after all I am in a tight spot and beggars can't be choosers but I'm just trying to 1) get as much info on my options as possible and 2) trying to remain optimistic - can't hurt.

Do you mind if I ask what your perspective is? Student? Practitioner? Random guy on the internet who likes to trol law school internet forums?


I am or have been all three.

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Re: 2L Summer Firm - Can it Hurt Your Resume?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:23 pm

rad lulz wrote:I'd rather work at a firm just so you could say you enjoy working at law firms and are committed to private law firms or some shit.


I've thought about that. I imagine I would be asked about the firm in future interviews - would it come off as arrogant/too self-defeating to explain that I had a 1L grade slump, worked hard to get my GPA up, succeeded at that then took the best job I could find for 2L summer but that it was certainly not what I want to be doing? Obviously I'd work on the wording but you get the gist.

sparty99
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Re: 2L Summer Firm - Can it Hurt Your Resume?

Postby sparty99 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:28 pm

What makes you think you can get big law when you didn't even get big law this 2L summer? Stop being a prestige whore and focus on doing a good job at a paid internship with the small firm.

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Re: 2L Summer Firm - Can it Hurt Your Resume?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:31 pm

sparty99 wrote:What makes you think you can get big law when you didn't even get big law this 2L summer? Stop being a prestige whore and focus on doing a good job at a paid internship with the small firm.


Read the rest of the posts, we've already gone through that... What's wrong with trying to learn a little bit first?

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Re: 2L Summer Firm - Can it Hurt Your Resume?

Postby rad lulz » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
rad lulz wrote:I'd rather work at a firm just so you could say you enjoy working at law firms and are committed to private law firms or some shit.


I've thought about that. I imagine I would be asked about the firm in future interviews - would it come off as arrogant/too self-defeating to explain that I had a 1L grade slump, worked hard to get my GPA up, succeeded at that then took the best job I could find for 2L summer but that it was certainly not what I want to be doing? Obviously I'd work on the wording but you get the gist.

Don't talk about grades

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Re: 2L Summer Firm - Can it Hurt Your Resume?

Postby los blancos » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:26 am

thesealocust wrote:
Sheffield wrote:
thesealocust wrote:There are - and I'm quoting this from actual stats, not making shit up - approximately 98.4% fewer 3L big firm job openings than there were 2L big firm job openings.

Those stats are puzzling. If the top 100 BL firms each average hiring 20 2L SAs, that would total 2,000. It would mean that there are only 32 3L SAs — that averages out to 0 3Ls at 68 BL firms. Does that not seem way too low?


There are roughly 5,000 big law 2L SAs / entry level big law positions per year, and last year there were 80 total biglaw offers made to 3Ls.


What's the definition of "big law" you're using? (just out of curiosity) V100?

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thesealocust
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Re: 2L Summer Firm - Can it Hurt Your Resume?

Postby thesealocust » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:30 am

I crunched the numbers long ago based on the data we got from NALP, the NLJ 250 hiring lists, and Vault. If I recall correctly, it was more like a low of 4,000 and a high of 6,000. Roughly speaking it should include almost all firms that hire through established summer programs with more than 1 or 2 summers. Shouldn't pick up any midlaw and will definitely miss some boutiques.

shock259
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Re: 2L Summer Firm - Can it Hurt Your Resume?

Postby shock259 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:52 am

thesealocust wrote:There are roughly 5,000 big law 2L SAs / entry level big law positions per year, and last year there were 80 total biglaw offers made to 3Ls.


And this number includes former SAs, right? For instance, SAs that switched firms post-summer? If so, I'd guess that a LOT of that 80 previously had SAs, making the potential pool even smaller for non-SA people.

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Re: 2L Summer Firm - Can it Hurt Your Resume?

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:11 pm

shock259 wrote:
thesealocust wrote:There are roughly 5,000 big law 2L SAs / entry level big law positions per year, and last year there were 80 total biglaw offers made to 3Ls.


And this number includes former SAs, right? For instance, SAs that switched firms post-summer? If so, I'd guess that a LOT of that 80 previously had SAs, making the potential pool even smaller for non-SA people.

yes




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