OCI coming up in the fall, considering NYC

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OCI coming up in the fall, considering NYC

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:19 pm

Hi everyone,

I'm currently finishing up 1L year at a T14 and making plans for 2L OCI. I'm split between working in my home market (my law school is in the same state, as was my undergrad) and NYC. I've amazingly never actually been to NYC, and I know long time ties aren't really required to work there, but an associate at a firm there suggested I should at least be able to say I've visited the city in interviews.

Can anyone comment on whether or not this is true? Considering planning a trip after exams with a few friends as an end of 1L year celebration anyway.

09042014
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Re: OCI coming up in the fall, considering NYC

Postby 09042014 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:57 pm

Why do you want to work in NYC if you've never even been there?

Yes, you need to able to say you've been there (but the only saying goes, if you aren't lying at OCI you don't want it bad enough). But don't volunteer the information unless they ask directly. "Why NYC?" "Because I visted Time Square" is a shitty answer. But one NYC interview's first thing when I sat down was "Have you every even been to NYC?"

Firms were suspicious as hell about my midwestern ass wanting NYC.

When in doubt create a fake fiance.

rad lulz
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Re: OCI coming up in the fall, considering NYC

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:01 pm

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: OCI coming up in the fall, considering NYC

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:03 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Firms were suspicious as hell about my midwestern ass wanting NYC.

As a Southerner, same experience


As a Bostonian my entire life, same.

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Re: OCI coming up in the fall, considering NYC

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:10 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Why do you want to work in NYC if you've never even been there?

Yes, you need to able to say you've been there (but the only saying goes, if you aren't lying at OCI you don't want it bad enough). But don't volunteer the information unless they ask directly. "Why NYC?" "Because I visted Time Square" is a shitty answer. But one NYC interview's first thing when I sat down was "Have you every even been to NYC?"

Firms were suspicious as hell about my midwestern ass wanting NYC.

When in doubt create a fake fiance.


Realistically, I'd target NYC because it would be a horrible idea to only target my tiny, exclusive home market, where I could easily strike out, but of course that's not what they want to hear.

Would "I want to work in X area/practice of law" be a good enough answer? I know it probably wouldn't fly in most secondary markets. Or are NYC firms looking more for the fiance/family ties type thing?

Edit: surprised at all the suspicion from NYC firms everyone got, thought NYC was the one place where ties weren't really a prerequisite to working there (and DC to a lesser extent)
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: OCI coming up in the fall, considering NYC

Postby 09042014 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Why do you want to work in NYC if you've never even been there?

Yes, you need to able to say you've been there (but the only saying goes, if you aren't lying at OCI you don't want it bad enough). But don't volunteer the information unless they ask directly. "Why NYC?" "Because I visted Time Square" is a shitty answer. But one NYC interview's first thing when I sat down was "Have you every even been to NYC?"

Firms were suspicious as hell about my midwestern ass wanting NYC.

When in doubt create a fake fiance.


Realistically, I'd target NYC because it would be a horrible idea to only target my tiny, exclusive home market, where I could easily strike out, but of course that's not what they want to hear.

Would "I want to work in X area/practice of law" be a good enough answer? I know it probably wouldn't fly in most secondary markets. Or are NYC firms looking more for the fiance/family ties type thing?


I dunno what really works because I mostly struck out in NYC.

I think if you want transactional work, that probably helps. Because you can't really do that work in pundunk cities.

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Re: OCI coming up in the fall, considering NYC

Postby thesealocust » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:13 pm

I'd literally spend 24-48 hours tops in NYC before interviewing there and ran into no pushback. You have to think through your answers though - if you can convince them you're interested in corporate law, it's probably also going to be an easy sell that you're interested in NYC, which dominates the transactional market in a way that doesn't have a parallel in litigation.

NYC is unique in that there are really obvious reasons to want to be there that don't require visiting. But if you lack even those really obvious reasons, or come across as insincere, or don't have good enough credentials to make the firms interested in the first place, you won't get far.

NYC firms absolutely aren't looking for things like fiance/family ties. I'm not saying it won't be easier with clear & convincing ties, but if you actually want to work in new york, having a new york background is absolutely not necessary.

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Re: OCI coming up in the fall, considering NYC

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:14 pm

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: OCI coming up in the fall, considering NYC

Postby IAFG » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:16 pm

It's not too late to start an LDR with a NYC based TLSer!

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Re: OCI coming up in the fall, considering NYC

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:17 pm

Hi! I do some recruiting work with my large NYC firm.

Each individual interviewer may have different prejudices, but there is 0 weight given systematically to a candidates ties/desire to be in the area/flight risk. It's not part of the evaluation in any way. Every year we get many applicants and make many offers to people with little to no geographic background in New York.

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Re: OCI coming up in the fall, considering NYC

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:24 pm

Yeah, I'd really like to do finance/M&A/securities, which is another reason I'm interested in NYC work. I guess I need to have a more definitive answer as to why I'm interested, especially since I don't have any experience in the area.

Thanks for the replies btw- this is really helpful.

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Re: OCI coming up in the fall, considering NYC

Postby NYstate » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi! I do some recruiting work with my large NYC firm.

Each individual interviewer may have different prejudices, but there is 0 weight given systematically to a candidates ties/desire to be in the area/flight risk. It's not part of the evaluation in any way. Every year we get many applicants and make many offers to people with little to no geographic background in New York.


I agree with this but I don't know if I would go as far as zero. If you are going to be unhappy in NYC and leave, the firm has wasted a spot. New Yorkers understand why people want to be here, but you should be able to articulate reasons. I agree that you don't have to have been here before or be going to school here either.

I had one person from South Dakota tell me that he spent his whole life working to get out of such a small place (but in a positive way and not putting down the place he grew up) and to live in a big city/cultural capital - specifically New York- as well as being interested in transactional practice. I asked him what advantages he got from living in South Dakota and he explained that he developed a number of hobbies. He didn't have the option of walking down the street to the museum, or to a great restaurant, he had to learn to entertain himself. He had to create his own opportunities. Then he went on to explain specifically how he could pursue some of those hobbies in NYC. But he was very careful about emphasizing his interest in the work as well, so he didn't come across as just wanting to be in NYC as summer play time.

I was a little concerned that a small town kid would ultimately be unhappy with city life, it isn't for everyone. But this was convincing to me. I thought this was a good interview. This is the only example I can think of.

(Of course, this person was also very smart and had great grades. But to me he needed to address this question of how he would adjust to NYC, what he wanted from NYC, while at the same time being committed to the work.)

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Re: OCI coming up in the fall, considering NYC

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Yeah, I'd really like to do finance/M&A/securities, which is another reason I'm interested in NYC work. I guess I need to have a more definitive answer as to why I'm interested, especially since I don't have any experience in the area.

Thanks for the replies btw- this is really helpful.

I was in a similar situation. My approach to this question (which over the course of like 8 callbacks was asked probably 30 times) was something like this:
"For professional reasons, I'm drawn to New York for reasons 1 & 2 (practice area strengths, corporate hub, strength and size of firms, etc). Additionally, for personal reasons, I'm drawn to New York for reasons 3 & 4 (energy of the city, culture, etc)." x 30.
Whether the interviewer was skeptical of my interest or just curious, everyone seemed satisfied by this answer.

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Re: OCI coming up in the fall, considering NYC

Postby r6_philly » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:53 am

Deals, clients, cases.

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Re: OCI coming up in the fall, considering NYC

Postby Antrim » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:00 am

rad lulz wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Firms were suspicious as hell about my midwestern ass wanting NYC.

As a Southerner, same experience


I had been to NYC for two days total pre-oci, so my go-to for NYC was "cause it's Florida. I'm not going back to that strange place."

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Re: OCI coming up in the fall, considering NYC

Postby AllDangle » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:07 am

tag

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Re: OCI coming up in the fall, considering NYC

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:33 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
When in doubt create a fake fiance.



HAHAHA. nice touch.

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Re: OCI coming up in the fall, considering NYC

Postby texanwahoo » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:00 pm

My advice as a former New Yorker who moved there twice (once right after finishing UVa undergrad):

1. ABSOLUTELY spend some time there -- as much as possible, really -- before making the decision to move. I didn't do so after undergrad and DEEPLY regretted it. Know going in that many things you take for granted wherever you live now, particularly in regards to finding housing, are exponentially more difficult there (and even more so if you want to live in a prime area of Manhattan). As has been noted probably thousands of times on here, you can live like a king on $160K in, say, Dallas or Atlanta; in NYC (or at least Manhattan) that salary is "slightly above average" and will be considered a joke to any Wall Street douche.

2. Speaking of things you take for granted ... accept that you will have no need for a car there, and even if you did, you'd be looking at shelling out $500/month or more just to park it (in a private garage). Free street parking is not only nearly impossible to find, but also requires you to move your car 4x a week for street cleaning; typically they clean one side on Mon & Wed and the other side Tue and Fri. Yes, this applies to EVERY street in Manhattan and most in the outer boroughs. (Oh, and if you did move your car there: unless you live someplace like California with astronomical insurance rates, expect your auto insurance premiums to double overnight.)

3. As for housing, get it into your head that $2500/month for a 400 sq ft Manhattan studio is considered "affordable housing," and at that price level you won't have, say, air-conditioning (unless you buy a window unit) or a dishwasher. You will almost certainly not be able to afford an apartment with a washer/dryer in your unit, or even on your floor. (That said, laundry delivery services will pick up and drop off all of your stuff, including wash-and-fold and dry cleaning.) Also get it into your head that you will most likely end up using the services of an apartment broker to find you a place, since a first-year associate will have NO spare time to look on their own. The standard broker fee is one-and-a-half month's rent. Oh, and you will have to provide THREE months' rent (first, last and security deposit) in advance, on top of the broker fee. You may also have to get your parents to co-sign or guarantee your lease if you're coming straight out of undergrad and have no credit line to speak of; NYC landlords are *very* strict about running financials and background checks.

4. Renting a sublet for a few weeks is an *excellent* way to get a feel for the city. Sublets can be had year-round but are particularly prevalent in the summer when a lot of people leave the city entirely. Craigslist is by far the easiest means of finding one that's both affordable and doesn't have any "deal-killers."

5. If you need a b.s. excuse to give to recruiters, I wouldn't go with a "fake fiancee"; tell them your favorite aunt lived there and you used to visit every summer as a child (and if you're going to stretch this tale out, be careful to do some research on which area of the city your "aunt" lived in). Also, if you're going the fabrication route, be sure to note certain "New York-isms." Houston St. is pronounced HOW-ston, for instance, and nobody refers to Avenue of the Americas by that name; it's Sixth Avenue, period.

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Re: OCI coming up in the fall, considering NYC

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:06 pm

I'm a native southerner going to LS in DC and my 1st NYC OCI interview was my 1st time setting foot in NYC. I told my interviewer that. When asked whether I wanted to live/work in NYC, I said I don't know, what I've seen so far I like, and it seems exciting. When they asked what are you looking for DC, NC, northeast... I said, "I'm looking for a career." All 100% true.

Top 1/3 at GW, got that V25 offer and accepted. DC market is horrible and I have no desire to move back to Bumfucktown, Red State.




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