Does a JD help in any other field than law?

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anon168
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Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby anon168 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:19 am

Redmouse wrote:We've all heard how supposedly the JD is a versatile degree. We all know it's probably bullshit but I'm totally screwed on the career front so I'm now looking to explore all possible options before hitting the eject button.

I went to a pretty good school, but middle of the road GPA + no LR basically screws me. I can't even get the time of day, let alone an offer, so I'm thinking of jumping ship.

Now before anyone says Staples or OfficeMax, I'm wondering if anyone here has been in this situation and where you found non-legal employment post-grad. I've got my license and all, I just don't think I've got much of a future in law, at least with where the market is today.


Politics - run for office

Congressional staff

Lobbyist

Legal news reporter / journalist

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Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:21 am

Borg wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
pastapplicant wrote:lol at that advice. getting a decent consulting job is harder than landing big law. Even if he was at HYS, he would not have a decent chance if he does not have prior experience.


This advice is frankly horrible (that you need a management consulting background, and that it difficult to get) and it is stupid that it is becoming conventional wisdom on TLS.

MBB (Mckinsey, Bain, BCG) hire from T6 schools with Top 5 MBA programs (Stanford, Harvard, Chicago), as well as NU (Kellogg), and Penn (Wharton). I would assume that they hire at NYU, Columbia, and Yale as well, but these schools have lower tier MBA programs, so it may be less viable for them to interview on campus.

If you interview 2L year, you are running the gauntlet, and have like a 1/50 chance of getting a job. I don't believe BCG or Bain hire 2Ls for their summer programs, McKinsey does. If you interview 3L year you have a pretty great chance at getting management consulting if you 1) have the #'s to get in the door (LSAT, ACT, SAT, GRE, etc.), and 2) spend two weeks studying case in point with your MBA buddies that are also trying to hustle management consulting positions. It is basically LSAT 2.0-- looks impossible, but just takes a lot of practice to get into the routine. Of course, most JDs just try to wing it and get slammed.


I'm a JD/MBA going into banking, but had offers from 2/3 of McKinsey, Bain, and BCG. The relative strength of the business school at an institution is not taken into account when considering a law school applicant, and all three firms recruit heavily from all of the T6 business schools, so they will be on campus. I'm not sure how you came up with your top 5, but hiring out of business school is not terribly linear based on any published rank. The rest of the analysis is pretty good. 2L summer positions can be tough to get, but if you really want it and keep at it during 3L it's possible (many b school students at top schools don't have jobs until right near the end of their program).


I meant that in my (and friends') limited experience it is easier as a JD to get an MBB interview at a school where consulting firms are already coming to interview a bunch of people. Mckinsey will be interviewing more people at Wharton, HBS, or Booth than Stern or Yale. This makes it easier to get an interview as a JD, as they will already have a program in place to interview. I'm not sure if it is as simple to get an interview at NYU for example.

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Borg
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Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby Borg » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Borg wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
pastapplicant wrote:lol at that advice. getting a decent consulting job is harder than landing big law. Even if he was at HYS, he would not have a decent chance if he does not have prior experience.


This advice is frankly horrible (that you need a management consulting background, and that it difficult to get) and it is stupid that it is becoming conventional wisdom on TLS.

MBB (Mckinsey, Bain, BCG) hire from T6 schools with Top 5 MBA programs (Stanford, Harvard, Chicago), as well as NU (Kellogg), and Penn (Wharton). I would assume that they hire at NYU, Columbia, and Yale as well, but these schools have lower tier MBA programs, so it may be less viable for them to interview on campus.

If you interview 2L year, you are running the gauntlet, and have like a 1/50 chance of getting a job. I don't believe BCG or Bain hire 2Ls for their summer programs, McKinsey does. If you interview 3L year you have a pretty great chance at getting management consulting if you 1) have the #'s to get in the door (LSAT, ACT, SAT, GRE, etc.), and 2) spend two weeks studying case in point with your MBA buddies that are also trying to hustle management consulting positions. It is basically LSAT 2.0-- looks impossible, but just takes a lot of practice to get into the routine. Of course, most JDs just try to wing it and get slammed.


I'm a JD/MBA going into banking, but had offers from 2/3 of McKinsey, Bain, and BCG. The relative strength of the business school at an institution is not taken into account when considering a law school applicant, and all three firms recruit heavily from all of the T6 business schools, so they will be on campus. I'm not sure how you came up with your top 5, but hiring out of business school is not terribly linear based on any published rank. The rest of the analysis is pretty good. 2L summer positions can be tough to get, but if you really want it and keep at it during 3L it's possible (many b school students at top schools don't have jobs until right near the end of their program).


I meant that in my (and friends') limited experience it is easier as a JD to get an MBB interview at a school where consulting firms are already coming to interview a bunch of people. Mckinsey will be interviewing more people at Wharton, HBS, or Booth than Stern or Yale. This makes it easier to get an interview as a JD, as they will already have a program in place to interview. I'm not sure if it is as simple to get an interview at NYU for example.


Right, but what I'm saying is that Stern and Yale are both represented quite well at all three, so I doubt that they have fewer interview slots for those students. Shouldn't be a concern for people at those schools. The ones where it will be tough are those that don't have a recruiting presence at all and need to go through some significant legwork just to make contact.

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Mick Haller
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Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby Mick Haller » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:44 am

sfhaze wrote:
eav1277 wrote:Anyone have info on transitioning from law to real estate? Whether it be residential or commercial? Or lower level banking & CFP route? Just curious.

Ken DeLeon.


He won't help. I've messaged him in the past with questions, got no response.

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Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:
pastapplicant wrote:lol at that advice. getting a decent consulting job is harder than landing big law. Even if he was at HYS, he would not have a decent chance if he does not have prior experience.


This advice is frankly horrible (that you need a management consulting background, and that it difficult to get) and it is stupid that it is becoming conventional wisdom on TLS.

MBB (Mckinsey, Bain, BCG) hire from T6 schools with Top 5 MBA programs (Stanford, Harvard, Chicago), as well as NU (Kellogg), and Penn (Wharton). I would assume that they hire at NYU, Columbia, and Yale as well, but these schools have lower tier MBA programs, so it may be less viable for them to interview on campus.

If you interview 2L year, you are running the gauntlet, and have like a 1/50 chance of getting a job. I don't believe BCG or Bain hire 2Ls for their summer programs, McKinsey does. If you interview 3L year you have a pretty great chance at getting management consulting if you 1) have the #'s to get in the door (LSAT, ACT, SAT, GRE, etc.), and 2) spend two weeks studying case in point with your MBA buddies that are also trying to hustle management consulting positions. It is basically LSAT 2.0-- looks impossible, but just takes a lot of practice to get into the routine. Of course, most JDs just try to wing it and get slammed.


I would like to add that if someone has high math aptitude, studying for the cases should not be hard at all. They tend to be repetitive, they tend to provide you with certain clues; overall, I think they are easier than let's say an issue spotter. I do think however that MBB cares a lot more than BigLaw about who you are outside of academics. They want generally well-accomplished people with leadership experience; which is natural since in BigLaw it is the partner who communicates with the client, whereas in consulting, since you work on the client's site, you have to be able to talk to the client and give them advice about how they should run their own business. That requires stress management/ people management/ leadership skills that junior associates do not need. Being liked in biglaw is about partners liking you, whereas being liked in consulting is about whether the client will like you and be convinced by you.
The point of all this: for MBB the harder part is not the cases, but convincing them that you can handle a client.

sfhaze
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Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby sfhaze » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:08 am

Mick Haller wrote:
sfhaze wrote:
eav1277 wrote:Anyone have info on transitioning from law to real estate? Whether it be residential or commercial? Or lower level banking & CFP route? Just curious.

Ken DeLeon.

He won't help. I've messaged him in the past with questions, got no response.

That's actually very disappointing to hear, Mick. Guess he's real busy peddling that Silicon Valley real estate, which in fact sells itself. Would be nice to know how he cracked the gravy train though... Oh well. My guess is you gotta be both lucky and smart, mostly lucky though (right time/place). Bubble real estate econ doesn't hurt either... To his credit though, Ken definitely does seem to maximize potential. He's like one of the top agents in the region/country according to his site and there's a ton of competition.

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Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby choculamaviva » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
pastapplicant wrote:lol at that advice. getting a decent consulting job is harder than landing big law. Even if he was at HYS, he would not have a decent chance if he does not have prior experience.


This advice is frankly horrible (that you need a management consulting background, and that it difficult to get) and it is stupid that it is becoming conventional wisdom on TLS.

MBB (Mckinsey, Bain, BCG) hire from T6 schools with Top 5 MBA programs (Stanford, Harvard, Chicago), as well as NU (Kellogg), and Penn (Wharton). I would assume that they hire at NYU, Columbia, and Yale as well, but these schools have lower tier MBA programs, so it may be less viable for them to interview on campus.

If you interview 2L year, you are running the gauntlet, and have like a 1/50 chance of getting a job. I don't believe BCG or Bain hire 2Ls for their summer programs, McKinsey does. If you interview 3L year you have a pretty great chance at getting management consulting if you 1) have the #'s to get in the door (LSAT, ACT, SAT, GRE, etc.), and 2) spend two weeks studying case in point with your MBA buddies that are also trying to hustle management consulting positions. It is basically LSAT 2.0-- looks impossible, but just takes a lot of practice to get into the routine. Of course, most JDs just try to wing it and get slammed.


While I agree with this statement in part -- that JD consulting applicants need to prepare for these interviews -- I would still say they are statistically unlikely, i.e. they ARE hard to get and you DON'T have a pretty great chance. Even if you prep and have the numbers to get in the door, you still face long odds.
I'm going to one of MBB next year. They did not hire many JDs this year and the offer rate to JD applicants from top 6 schools was 5%ish. The stress/fit questions, plus the case prep, plus some facility with numbers requirements = very few JDs being up to snuff. I had 21 callbacks from OCI but felt extremely lucky to snag a single spot at one of MBB.

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Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:05 am

what about compliance, like... AML compliance?

juzam_djinn
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Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby juzam_djinn » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:16 pm

pastapplicant wrote:lol at that advice. getting a decent consulting job is harder than landing big law. Even if he was at HYS, he would not have a decent chance if he does not have prior experience.


stupid stupid stupid

idiot people on this forum selling biglaw short b/c they resent their choices? any consulting job, including mbb, is within your grasp if you went to a prestigious UG

how the hell does that make it "harder than landing big law"? plenty of people went to top 5 UG's and then went onto law school, foregoing consulting

it's all about your choices and what you wanted, and that does NOT make it 'harder'

Obviously, if you went to a mediocre UG and then a mediocre law school, you'd probably have a comparatively better chance at a big law job since consulting mostly recruits out of UG and B-schools...but this does not make it harder

get your facts straight

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Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby pastapplicant » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:32 pm

did you not see above that the offer rate is around 5%? go look at your school's data if you attend a HYSCCN and see how few JDs are successful. what does resentment have to do with anything? i am confused on this point. what does UG have to do with anything if someone is not at a law school where MBB actively recruits? if you seriously think getting a biglaw offer is harder than a MBB offer you are either delusional or have not ever done an interview with a law firm where all it takes is a mediocre personality and median grades for most at HYSCCN. i don't know why you are so mad but you need to calm down dude. plus, this thread is suppose to be relevant to the OP who clearly does not attend a "prestigious" school.

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Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby Pokemon » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:37 pm

juzam_djinn wrote:
pastapplicant wrote:lol at that advice. getting a decent consulting job is harder than landing big law. Even if he was at HYS, he would not have a decent chance if he does not have prior experience.


stupid stupid stupid

idiot people on this forum selling biglaw short b/c they resent their choices? any consulting job, including mbb, is within your grasp if you went to a prestigious UG

how the hell does that make it "harder than landing big law"? plenty of people went to top 5 UG's and then went onto law school, foregoing consulting

it's all about your choices and what you wanted, and that does NOT make it 'harder'

Obviously, if you went to a mediocre UG and then a mediocre law school, you'd probably have a comparatively better chance at a big law job since consulting mostly recruits out of UG and B-schools...but this does not make it harder

get your facts straight


Out of UG consulting firms hire analysts or a similar position. We are not talking about that, we are talking about Associates.
Associate positions are open only to MBA, PhD, MD, JD & PostDoc students. It does not even include most master programs. Those associate are harder to get for JD students than BigLaw is.

And ps, stop calling others stupid, and talking with so much certainty... particularly about things you do not seem to know too well.

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Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Borg wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
pastapplicant wrote:lol at that advice. getting a decent consulting job is harder than landing big law. Even if he was at HYS, he would not have a decent chance if he does not have prior experience.


This advice is frankly horrible (that you need a management consulting background, and that it difficult to get) and it is stupid that it is becoming conventional wisdom on TLS.

MBB (Mckinsey, Bain, BCG) hire from T6 schools with Top 5 MBA programs (Stanford, Harvard, Chicago), as well as NU (Kellogg), and Penn (Wharton). I would assume that they hire at NYU, Columbia, and Yale as well, but these schools have lower tier MBA programs, so it may be less viable for them to interview on campus.

If you interview 2L year, you are running the gauntlet, and have like a 1/50 chance of getting a job. I don't believe BCG or Bain hire 2Ls for their summer programs, McKinsey does. If you interview 3L year you have a pretty great chance at getting management consulting if you 1) have the #'s to get in the door (LSAT, ACT, SAT, GRE, etc.), and 2) spend two weeks studying case in point with your MBA buddies that are also trying to hustle management consulting positions. It is basically LSAT 2.0-- looks impossible, but just takes a lot of practice to get into the routine. Of course, most JDs just try to wing it and get slammed.


I'm a JD/MBA going into banking, but had offers from 2/3 of McKinsey, Bain, and BCG. The relative strength of the business school at an institution is not taken into account when considering a law school applicant, and all three firms recruit heavily from all of the T6 business schools, so they will be on campus. I'm not sure how you came up with your top 5, but hiring out of business school is not terribly linear based on any published rank. The rest of the analysis is pretty good. 2L summer positions can be tough to get, but if you really want it and keep at it during 3L it's possible (many b school students at top schools don't have jobs until right near the end of their program).


I meant that in my (and friends') limited experience it is easier as a JD to get an MBB interview at a school where consulting firms are already coming to interview a bunch of people. Mckinsey will be interviewing more people at Wharton, HBS, or Booth than Stern or Yale. This makes it easier to get an interview as a JD, as they will already have a program in place to interview. I'm not sure if it is as simple to get an interview at NYU for example.


Do you have any more info on MBB recruitment for 3Ls? I go to one of the target schools-- aside from just applying and praying, what else do I have to do to get an interview? Thanks!

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Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby juzam_djinn » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:08 pm

Pokemon wrote:
juzam_djinn wrote:
pastapplicant wrote:lol at that advice. getting a decent consulting job is harder than landing big law. Even if he was at HYS, he would not have a decent chance if he does not have prior experience.


stupid stupid stupid

idiot people on this forum selling biglaw short b/c they resent their choices? any consulting job, including mbb, is within your grasp if you went to a prestigious UG

how the hell does that make it "harder than landing big law"? plenty of people went to top 5 UG's and then went onto law school, foregoing consulting

it's all about your choices and what you wanted, and that does NOT make it 'harder'

Obviously, if you went to a mediocre UG and then a mediocre law school, you'd probably have a comparatively better chance at a big law job since consulting mostly recruits out of UG and B-schools...but this does not make it harder

get your facts straight


Out of UG consulting firms hire analysts or a similar position. We are not talking about that, we are talking about Associates.
Associate positions are open only to MBA, PhD, MD, JD & PostDoc students. It does not even include most master programs. Those associate are harder to get for JD students than BigLaw is.

And ps, stop calling others stupid, and talking with so much certainty... particularly about things you do not seem to know too well.


no, nobody is talking about 'associates' v. analysts, it was very clear that the general consensus that is being thrown around these boards is that consulting is more difficult to get than biglaw, which it is not

nobody qualified their statements or added in specifics, so please don't try to add them in after the fact. you will get caught

it's also very very very strange that you and pastapplicant are trying to point out an 'apples to oranges' mistake on my part when you're the ones failing to note that you're comparing success rate for top consulting firms for success rate for ALL biglaw

5% success rate for MBB? Ok, let's compare that to success rate for Wachtell, W&C, and MTO

add into that the fact that people going to law school RARELY go there w/ the purpose of going into consulting afterwards, and it explains why the rate is low (people go in w/ credentials for other things, and typically lack work the WE/UG majors that top consulting firms look for)

look, it's just NOT true that they are 'harder' to get...the phrases 'harder' and 'more difficult' just paint a totally wrong picture. I understand initially you were responding to someone who made it sound as if it was a simple matter of studying for case interviews, and it certainly requires far more than that. but no need to carry it further and pretend as if it's objectively a more difficult task than a top big law firm

also, apologies for using the word 'stupid'; i actually am just using this as an opportunity to try and clear the air about this insane general sentiment that consulting is some impossibly difficult field to break into...not anything personal and apologies for making it into a personal attack

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Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby Pokemon » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:29 pm

juzam_djinn wrote:
Pokemon wrote:
juzam_djinn wrote:
pastapplicant wrote:lol at that advice. getting a decent consulting job is harder than landing big law. Even if he was at HYS, he would not have a decent chance if he does not have prior experience.


stupid stupid stupid

idiot people on this forum selling biglaw short b/c they resent their choices? any consulting job, including mbb, is within your grasp if you went to a prestigious UG

how the hell does that make it "harder than landing big law"? plenty of people went to top 5 UG's and then went onto law school, foregoing consulting

it's all about your choices and what you wanted, and that does NOT make it 'harder'

Obviously, if you went to a mediocre UG and then a mediocre law school, you'd probably have a comparatively better chance at a big law job since consulting mostly recruits out of UG and B-schools...but this does not make it harder

get your facts straight


Out of UG consulting firms hire analysts or a similar position. We are not talking about that, we are talking about Associates.
Associate positions are open only to MBA, PhD, MD, JD & PostDoc students. It does not even include most master programs. Those associate are harder to get for JD students than BigLaw is.

And ps, stop calling others stupid, and talking with so much certainty... particularly about things you do not seem to know too well.


no, nobody is talking about 'associates' v. analysts, it was very clear that the general consensus that is being thrown around these boards is that consulting is more difficult to get than biglaw, which it is not

nobody qualified their statements or added in specifics, so please don't try to add them in after the fact. you will get caught

it's also very very very strange that you and pastapplicant are trying to point out an 'apples to oranges' mistake on my part when you're the ones failing to note that you're comparing success rate for top consulting firms for success rate for ALL biglaw

5% success rate for MBB? Ok, let's compare that to success rate for Wachtell, W&C, and MTO

add into that the fact that people going to law school RARELY go there w/ the purpose of going into consulting afterwards, and it explains why the rate is low (people go in w/ credentials for other things, and typically lack work the WE/UG majors that top consulting firms look for)

look, it's just NOT true that they are 'harder' to get...the phrases 'harder' and 'more difficult' just paint a totally wrong picture. I understand initially you were responding to someone who made it sound as if it was a simple matter of studying for case interviews, and it certainly requires far more than that. but no need to carry it further and pretend as if it's objectively a more difficult task than a top big law firm

also, apologies for using the word 'stupid'; i actually am just using this as an opportunity to try and clear the air about this insane general sentiment that consulting is some impossibly difficult field to break into...not anything personal and apologies for making it into a personal attack


The associates versus analysts distinction is huge. It is, or should be implied, in everything said in this thread. When people go to consulting after JD they go for associate positions which pay as well as BigLaw, not for analyst positions that pay around 70k. Most consulting firms will not even look at advanced degrees for analyst positions.

Also, you compare MBB to biglaw because with the exception of the big 4 accounting, no other consulting firms hire JDs. The big 4 hires JDs primarily because of tax.

As to MBB being more difficult. The thing is that median at a T-14 can get BigLaw. That same median student (consulting does not care about law school grades, but cares a ton about your LSAT score) to make it to consulting needs math aptitude that most JD students do not have. Additionally, consulting interviews tend to be far more difficult. For biglaw, being liked is enough. For consulting you have to solve cases (not that difficult imo), do mental math quickly, and they have higher threshold on personal leadership/achievement.

PS: for anyone asking advice about consulting, search for Voyager... he went to consulting and he has a great thread about how to make it.
PS 2: McK invites a ton of advanced degrees and they have three rounds of interviews. Generally, 1 in 50 makes it all the way to the offer. Those are pretty long odds.
Final addition: think about who you are competing for jobs at MBB. MBAs who have better work experience than JDs, and then mostly PhD in science, physics etc. Well, those PhDs probably can at least beat the average JD when it comes to the mental math element...

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Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby juzam_djinn » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:40 pm

yes, they look at completely different things, but that does not mean they are harder

truth is, even if most JD students are terribad at math, that doesn't mean all of us are (and frankly, I'm personally insulted when someone thinks i am)

second, the interview for biglaw is comparatively pathetic compared to interviewing for consulting...but just b/c the interview portions are harder doesn't mean the overall package is more difficult. you have people who did pretty well in UG that get into consulting as analysts and work their way to associate that would have BOMBED law school...can't just disregard the difficulty of getting good LS grades b/c consulting firms don't care about them

I'll stop now though, the point is there is simply no basis for thinking one is objectively harder than the other...if you want to tell some lower T1 student that consulting is foreclosed to them, be my guest b/c you are completely right. However, the reason it is foreclosed isn't b/c it's more difficult to be a consultant

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Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby Pokemon » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:47 pm

juzam_djinn wrote:yes, they look at completely different things, but that does not mean they are harder

truth is, even if most JD students are terribad at math, that doesn't mean all of us are (and frankly, I'm personally insulted when someone thinks i am)

second, the interview for biglaw is comparatively pathetic compared to interviewing for consulting...but just b/c the interview portions are harder doesn't mean the overall package is more difficult. you have people who did pretty well in UG that get into consulting as analysts and work their way to associate that would have BOMBED law school...can't just disregard the difficulty of getting good LS grades b/c consulting firms don't care about them

I'll stop now though, the point is there is simply no basis for thinking one is objectively harder than the other...if you want to tell some lower T1 student that consulting is foreclosed to them, be my guest b/c you are completely right. However, the reason it is foreclosed isn't b/c it's more difficult to be a consultant


I am also stopping. I agree that objectively consulting is not harder than law. Tons of people who make it far in PhD programs also for example would be terrible law students.
Having said that though, I still maintain that for the average t-14 law student out there, with an equal desire for consulting and biglaw, s/he will have a better chance at becoming a biglaw associate than a consulting associate. That is my whole point.

marcfj
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Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby marcfj » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:53 pm

The best practical answer to the original question is D&O underwriting or insurance claims.
The big carriers hire lawyers right out of schools for these positions and if you do well, you can have a highly successful, albeit non-legal career.

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Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby guano » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:22 pm

eav1277 wrote:Anyone have info on transitioning from law to real estate? Whether it be residential or commercial? Or lower level banking & CFP route? Just curious.

If by CFP you mean certified financial planner, I can help, but I doubt you'll like the answer. Ask away

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Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:04 pm

juzam_djinn wrote:yes, they look at completely different things, but that does not mean they are harder

truth is, even if most JD students are terribad at math, that doesn't mean all of us are (and frankly, I'm personally insulted when someone thinks i am)

second, the interview for biglaw is comparatively pathetic compared to interviewing for consulting...but just b/c the interview portions are harder doesn't mean the overall package is more difficult. you have people who did pretty well in UG that get into consulting as analysts and work their way to associate that would have BOMBED law school...can't just disregard the difficulty of getting good LS grades b/c consulting firms don't care about them

I'll stop now though, the point is there is simply no basis for thinking one is objectively harder than the other...if you want to tell some lower T1 student that consulting is foreclosed to them, be my guest b/c you are completely right. However, the reason it is foreclosed isn't b/c it's more difficult to be a consultant


For most of the people on this forum, "harder" = likely. I'm not diminishing the effort someone went through to get into law school or to do well at law school. But if you are attending a CCN, your chance of landing a job at MBB is way lower than BigLaw. That is how I would define hard. This really isn't apples to oranges because most of the lower-tier consulting firms don't even hire JDs. I will agree it's not as hard as Wachtell. Lots of the people that apply to MBB, understandably, do so after striking out at OCI. Everyone I know who has a JOB at MBB did well at OCI. I'm sure there is someone out there with a high LSAT, poor grades, and decent quant skills who landed a job at MBB after striking out at OCI. But even with most of those people, I would just suggest the odds only get closer to comparable. To put it a different way, a big firm in NYC hires 50-100 summers/year. A big office of MBB hires 2ish.

Pokemon
Posts: 1861
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Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby Pokemon » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
juzam_djinn wrote:yes, they look at completely different things, but that does not mean they are harder

truth is, even if most JD students are terribad at math, that doesn't mean all of us are (and frankly, I'm personally insulted when someone thinks i am)

second, the interview for biglaw is comparatively pathetic compared to interviewing for consulting...but just b/c the interview portions are harder doesn't mean the overall package is more difficult. you have people who did pretty well in UG that get into consulting as analysts and work their way to associate that would have BOMBED law school...can't just disregard the difficulty of getting good LS grades b/c consulting firms don't care about them

I'll stop now though, the point is there is simply no basis for thinking one is objectively harder than the other...if you want to tell some lower T1 student that consulting is foreclosed to them, be my guest b/c you are completely right. However, the reason it is foreclosed isn't b/c it's more difficult to be a consultant


For most of the people on this forum, "harder" = likely. I'm not diminishing the effort someone went through to get into law school or to do well at law school. But if you are attending a CCN, your chance of landing a job at MBB is way lower than BigLaw. That is how I would define hard. This really isn't apples to oranges because most of the lower-tier consulting firms don't even hire JDs. I will agree it's not as hard as Wachtell. Lots of the people that apply to MBB, understandably, do so after striking out at OCI. Everyone I know who has a JOB at MBB did well at OCI. I'm sure there is someone out there with a high LSAT, poor grades, and decent quant skills who landed a job at MBB after striking out at OCI. But even with most of those people, I would just suggest the odds only get closer to comparable. To put it a different way, a big firm in NYC hires 50-100 summers/year. A big office of MBB hires 2ish.


I agree with most. The only thing worth pointing out here is that MBB offices do not have numbers, we need 2 JDs or something along those lines. They simply have we have a need for associates, and anyone with a PhD, JD or MD can apply. Those three degrees are interchangeable for them; if ten 10 JDs and 3 PhDs make it, good enough, if 3 JDs and 10PhDs make it, equally good.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273385
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:00 pm

Pokemon wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
juzam_djinn wrote:yes, they look at completely different things, but that does not mean they are harder

truth is, even if most JD students are terribad at math, that doesn't mean all of us are (and frankly, I'm personally insulted when someone thinks i am)

second, the interview for biglaw is comparatively pathetic compared to interviewing for consulting...but just b/c the interview portions are harder doesn't mean the overall package is more difficult. you have people who did pretty well in UG that get into consulting as analysts and work their way to associate that would have BOMBED law school...can't just disregard the difficulty of getting good LS grades b/c consulting firms don't care about them

I'll stop now though, the point is there is simply no basis for thinking one is objectively harder than the other...if you want to tell some lower T1 student that consulting is foreclosed to them, be my guest b/c you are completely right. However, the reason it is foreclosed isn't b/c it's more difficult to be a consultant


For most of the people on this forum, "harder" = likely. I'm not diminishing the effort someone went through to get into law school or to do well at law school. But if you are attending a CCN, your chance of landing a job at MBB is way lower than BigLaw. That is how I would define hard. This really isn't apples to oranges because most of the lower-tier consulting firms don't even hire JDs. I will agree it's not as hard as Wachtell. Lots of the people that apply to MBB, understandably, do so after striking out at OCI. Everyone I know who has a JOB at MBB did well at OCI. I'm sure there is someone out there with a high LSAT, poor grades, and decent quant skills who landed a job at MBB after striking out at OCI. But even with most of those people, I would just suggest the odds only get closer to comparable. To put it a different way, a big firm in NYC hires 50-100 summers/year. A big office of MBB hires 2ish.


I agree with most. The only thing worth pointing out here is that MBB offices do not have numbers, we need 2 JDs or something along those lines. They simply have we have a need for associates, and anyone with a PhD, JD or MD can apply. Those three degrees are interchangeable for them; if ten 10 JDs and 3 PhDs make it, good enough, if 3 JDs and 10PhDs make it, equally good.

Well, they lump them in together, but I've never seen a situation where the majority were JDs, at least in my experience. In my large MBB office, they typically hire 20% Phd/JD/MDs. It is typically mostly Phds for a number of reasons, but I suspect at least one reason is because Phds are still a very diverse group. I can't envision a scenario in which they would hire the majority JDs, but maybe it's happened at other firms/offices.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273385
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:55 pm

So... compliance?

User avatar
Hattori Hanzo
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:17 am

Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby Hattori Hanzo » Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:So... compliance?


PM me.

User avatar
Danger Zone
Posts: 7310
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:36 am

Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby Danger Zone » Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:20 am

Anonymous User wrote:So... compliance?

Where's Mtal when ya need him?

User avatar
stillwater
Posts: 3811
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:59 pm

Re: Does a JD help in any other field than law?

Postby stillwater » Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:27 am

i was talking to this dude who is the assistant to the deli meat slicer/cutter at the local Arby's and he said his TTT law degree got a leg up on the competition. HTH.




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