Loyola PLIP 2013: Brace yourselves... Forum

[Jsa725]

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[Anonymous User]

Resume is two pages (wasn't a straight K-JD, experience in IP related industry). I usually keep it to one page for non-IP jobs, but do you think it's ok to keep it at two (more like 1 and a half) for this?

[Agent]

Fine to use two pages. Especially if you have prior relevant work experience.

Just be sure—really sure—that you trim as much fat as possible. (It concerns me that you're typically able to keep it at one page and now think two would be appropriate.)

Just know that PLIP interviewers will receive plenty of multi-page resumes. Feel free to PM me to discuss details.

Resume is two pages (wasn't a straight K-JD, experience in IP related industry). I usually keep it to one page for non-IP jobs, but do you think it's ok to keep it at two (more like 1 and a half) for this?

[Anonymous User]

It concerns me that you're typically able to keep it at one page and now think two would be appropriate.

To get it to one page for non-field related jobs, it was cut to the bare bones (per Career Office recommendation). They basically said I'd have two resumes - one aimed towards non-field related jobs (such as public interest) and one towards field-related jobs (such as IP) which would add back in the stuff I cut.

I could cut out the interests section, but interviewers seem to like it!

[Agent]

Gotcha. Let me know via PM if I can do more to help. Most CSOs seem clueless re: hunting for a patent law job.

It concerns me that you're typically able to keep it at one page and now think two would be appropriate.

To get it to one page for non-field related jobs, it was cut to the bare bones (per Career Office recommendation). They basically said I'd have two resumes - one aimed towards non-field related jobs (such as public interest) and one towards field-related jobs (such as IP) which would add back in the stuff I cut.

I could cut out the interests section, but interviewers seem to like it!

[Anonymous User]

Hi:

It may be just my imagination, but I’m getting the feelling that a lot of us are going to PLIP just to have some sort of chance at interviewing with firms that we wouldn’t ordinarily qualify for in our own school’s OCI. Looking at this thread, it seems obvious that a lot of goys are just squeezing whatever "science background" they can ("I'm not a scientist, but I play one on TV....can I qualify").
Not to sound self-denegrating, but I figure that most guys from the upper T14 wouldn’t bother coming since, even if they were targeting IP, they’d have little trouble getting into these firms (consisting of only 4-6 of the V25), the exception being those at the bottom of their class at those schools.
If I’m wrong, just tell me I’m crazy and why……

[chem]

Hi:

It may be just my imagination, but I’m getting the feelling that a lot of us are going to PLIP just to have some sort of chance at interviewing with firms that we wouldn’t ordinarily qualify for in our own school’s OCI. Not to sound self-denegrating, but I figure that most guys from the upper T14 wouldn’t bother coming since, even if they were targeting IP, they’d have little trouble getting into these firms (consisting of only 4-6 of the V25), the exception being those at the bottom of their class at those schools.
If I’m wrong, just tell me I’m crazy and why……

Nope! Im at Virginia, top 10%. Hitting up PLIP and SFIPLA ontop of OGI.

[Anonymous User]

Hi:

It may be just my imagination, but I’m getting the feelling that a lot of us are going to PLIP just to have some sort of chance at interviewing with firms that we wouldn’t ordinarily qualify for in our own school’s OCI. Not to sound self-denegrating, but I figure that most guys from the upper T14 wouldn’t bother coming since, even if they were targeting IP, they’d have little trouble getting into these firms (consisting of only 4-6 of the V25), the exception being those at the bottom of their class at those schools.
If I’m wrong, just tell me I’m crazy and why……

Nope! Im at Virginia, top 10%. Hitting up PLIP and SFIPLA ontop of OGI.

And you're bidding for v40-70? that's the range for us mortals...Isn't that a little below you? Any HYSCCN guys out there?

[kyle010723]

Hi:

It may be just my imagination, but I’m getting the feelling that a lot of us are going to PLIP just to have some sort of chance at interviewing with firms that we wouldn’t ordinarily qualify for in our own school’s OCI. Looking at this thread, it seems obvious that a lot of goys are just squeezing whatever "science background" they can ("I'm not a scientist, but I play one on TV....can I qualify").
Not to sound self-denegrating, but I figure that most guys from the upper T14 wouldn’t bother coming since, even if they were targeting IP, they’d have little trouble getting into these firms (consisting of only 4-6 of the V25), the exception being those at the bottom of their class at those schools.
If I’m wrong, just tell me I’m crazy and why……

I dont know about the T14 part, but I think the majority of people that goes to PLIP has a hard science background. Most non-science people dont even know what PLIP stands for.

Let me put it this way, out of 261 bidding options at PLIP, only 102 bidding options do not require patent bar eligibility, and I suspect most of them do not specifically require it because they are also hiring litigators.

[Anonymous User]

Hi:

It may be just my imagination, but I’m getting the feelling that a lot of us are going to PLIP just to have some sort of chance at interviewing with firms that we wouldn’t ordinarily qualify for in our own school’s OCI. Looking at this thread, it seems obvious that a lot of goys are just squeezing whatever "science background" they can ("I'm not a scientist, but I play one on TV....can I qualify").
Not to sound self-denegrating, but I figure that most guys from the upper T14 wouldn’t bother coming since, even if they were targeting IP, they’d have little trouble getting into these firms (consisting of only 4-6 of the V25), the exception being those at the bottom of their class at those schools.
If I’m wrong, just tell me I’m crazy and why……

There's probably some truth to this, but who cares? In a difficult job market, you should take all the chances that you have. I know people who have attended "minority" job fairs even though they weren't "minorities" in any sense of the word. Maybe they were also doing it to get a shot at firms that they normally wouldn't have a shot at their own schools OCI.

Even if you are one of the "guys from the upper T14", there's absolutely no guarantees in this market. There is so much arbitrariness to the law firm hiring system that I wouldn't put too much faith into the fact that someone picked your resume out of a very large pile. There are just too many cases of people who are alternates or second choices that end up getting the callbacks. That's probably because there's a difference of opinion between (1) the recruiter who sifted through the resumes and (2) the attorney who picks who gets the callbacks. It's such a crapshoot that you might as well increase your odds as much as possible.

[09042014]

Hi:

It may be just my imagination, but I’m getting the feelling that a lot of us are going to PLIP just to have some sort of chance at interviewing with firms that we wouldn’t ordinarily qualify for in our own school’s OCI. Looking at this thread, it seems obvious that a lot of goys are just squeezing whatever "science background" they can ("I'm not a scientist, but I play one on TV....can I qualify").
Not to sound self-denegrating, but I figure that most guys from the upper T14 wouldn’t bother coming since, even if they were targeting IP, they’d have little trouble getting into these firms (consisting of only 4-6 of the V25), the exception being those at the bottom of their class at those schools.
If I’m wrong, just tell me I’m crazy and why……

Damn near every IP eligible person from my t14 went to Loyola including a guy with a 3.9. The person I can think of who didn't just really didn't wanna do IP.

Vault general practice firms don't send their IP guys to OCI. You should get the interview at Loyola. A couple firms asked why I didn't bid them at Loyola when I got an interview at OCI (including two firms who dinged me at Loyola).\

While T14 is pretty good even people in the top 20% range don't get a fuckton of callbacks at OCI.

[09042014]

Hi:

It may be just my imagination, but I’m getting the feelling that a lot of us are going to PLIP just to have some sort of chance at interviewing with firms that we wouldn’t ordinarily qualify for in our own school’s OCI. Looking at this thread, it seems obvious that a lot of goys are just squeezing whatever "science background" they can ("I'm not a scientist, but I play one on TV....can I qualify").
Not to sound self-denegrating, but I figure that most guys from the upper T14 wouldn’t bother coming since, even if they were targeting IP, they’d have little trouble getting into these firms (consisting of only 4-6 of the V25), the exception being those at the bottom of their class at those schools.
If I’m wrong, just tell me I’m crazy and why……

There's probably some truth to this, but who cares? In a difficult job market, you should take all the chances that you have. I know people who have attended "minority" job fairs even though they weren't "minorities" in any sense of the word. Maybe they were also doing it to get a shot at firms that they normally wouldn't have a shot at their own schools OCI.

Even if you are one of the "guys from the upper T14", there's absolutely no guarantees in this market. There is so much arbitrariness to the law firm hiring system that I wouldn't put too much faith into the fact that someone picked your resume out of a very large pile. There are just too many cases of people who are alternates or second choices that end up getting the callbacks. That's probably because there's a difference of opinion between (1) the recruiter who sifted through the resumes and (2) the attorney who picks who gets the callbacks. It's such a crapshoot that you might as well increase your odds as much as possible.

Yep. I got an offer at a firm that didn't even alt me at Loyola.

[Jsa725]

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[Anonymous User]

This is a joke - in past years, transcripts were not required so if you didn't put your Law GPA on your resume, you might get pre-screened if your resume was impressive enough. This year, 95% of the employers were given the option and chose to view transcripts together with the resumes. That means if you bombed first semester 1L, no matter which school you are at, your chances of getting an interview are slim to none.

Am I missing something or everyone else has great GPAs and doesn't care?

I know that with a bad transcript one might not get a CB anyway but at least you have the ability to make a good impression on an interview.

[Jsa725]

.

[09042014]

Yep. I got an offer at a firm that didn't even alt me at Loyola.

How did you accomplish this?

I bid them at my OCI. Recruiting is weird.

[Jsa725]

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[soccerfreak]

Yep. I got an offer at a firm that didn't even alt me at Loyola.

How did you accomplish this?

I bid them at my OCI. Recruiting is weird.

Firm I'm working at didn't even give me a screener at either of their two offices interviewing at my school's OCI. Got the job after reapplying directly.

Recruiting is weird.

[09042014]

Yep. I got an offer at a firm that didn't even alt me at Loyola.

How did you accomplish this?

I bid them at my OCI. Recruiting is weird.

thats crazy! haha...are you/will you be in a major market? pros or lit?

I didn't take the offer, but I'll being lit in a major market.

[Anonymous User]

This is a joke - in past years, transcripts were not required so if you didn't put your Law GPA on your resume, you might get pre-screened if your resume was impressive enough. This year, 95% of the employers were given the option and chose to view transcripts together with the resumes. That means if you bombed first semester 1L, no matter which school you are at, your chances of getting an interview are slim to none.

Am I missing something or everyone else has great GPAs and doesn't care?

I know that with a bad transcript one might not get a CB anyway but at least you have the ability to make a good impression on an interview.

what are your grades/rank and school?

T14 almost 3.0 but not quite. Dismal semester no doubt - I am just shocked to learn that in previous years I would have been able to avoid putting on any GPA and deal with it on the actual interviews. If I was in the firm's position, I wouldn't pre-select me either...

[Jsa725]

.

[Anonymous User]

This is a joke - in past years, transcripts were not required so if you didn't put your Law GPA on your resume, you might get pre-screened if your resume was impressive enough. This year, 95% of the employers were given the option and chose to view transcripts together with the resumes. That means if you bombed first semester 1L, no matter which school you are at, your chances of getting an interview are slim to none.

Am I missing something or everyone else has great GPAs and doesn't care?

I know that with a bad transcript one might not get a CB anyway but at least you have the ability to make a good impression on an interview.

what are your grades/rank and school?

T14 almost 3.0 but not quite. Dismal semester no doubt - I am just shocked to learn that in previous years I would have been able to avoid putting on any GPA and deal with it on the actual interviews. If I was in the firm's position, I wouldn't pre-select me either...

Do you have pre-LS WE & are you patent bar eligible?

WE - yes but non-science related; I am PB eligible.

[sfhaze]

This is a joke - in past years, transcripts were not required so if you didn't put your Law GPA on your resume, you might get pre-screened if your resume was impressive enough. This year, 95% of the employers were given the option and chose to view transcripts together with the resumes. That means if you bombed first semester 1L, no matter which school you are at, your chances of getting an interview are slim to none.

Am I missing something or everyone else has great GPAs and doesn't care?

I know that with a bad transcript one might not get a CB anyway but at least you have the ability to make a good impression on an interview.

what are your grades/rank and school?

T14 almost 3.0 but not quite. Dismal semester no doubt - I am just shocked to learn that in previous years I would have been able to avoid putting on any GPA and deal with it on the actual interviews. If I was in the firm's position, I wouldn't pre-select me either...

FYI, as far as I know in at least the past few years the conventional advice given re: GPA inclusion on resume was to put limited law GPA on resume lest HR personnel at firms assume it's horrible and not pre-select (though admittedly this wouldn't be wise re: candidates applying from solid schools). Put UG GPA on there too, plus UG transcripts if transcripts are requested, not law transcripts typically. So I don't think it's changed. As a side note, I might forgo including GPA if it's really so bad and from a top school. Let the school, etc., speak for itself, not the single semester of grades, damn conventional advice. I'd probably do this myself, but it's a bit of a risk, though likely no bigger than eliciting an irrational visceral reaction for having a 'too low' law GPA on there.

And I second DF in that some serious IP folk come to this thing from many top schools, even schools like Berkeley where most IP firms arguably worth considering come in the fall regardless. Others just don't bother. Also, for anyone thinking about traveling from afar to the SFIPLA fair, realize it's a relatively small event. I personally would not attend it unless coming from CA or determined to land in SF bay area, the chances of which SFIPLA might raise a bit, but who knows. Regardless, all these events are cool to visit the cities.

[Anonymous User]

This is a joke - in past years, transcripts were not required so if you didn't put your Law GPA on your resume, you might get pre-screened if your resume was impressive enough. This year, 95% of the employers were given the option and chose to view transcripts together with the resumes. That means if you bombed first semester 1L, no matter which school you are at, your chances of getting an interview are slim to none.

Am I missing something or everyone else has great GPAs and doesn't care?

I know that with a bad transcript one might not get a CB anyway but at least you have the ability to make a good impression on an interview.

what are your grades/rank and school?

T14 almost 3.0 but not quite. Dismal semester no doubt - I am just shocked to learn that in previous years I would have been able to avoid putting on any GPA and deal with it on the actual interviews. If I was in the firm's position, I wouldn't pre-select me either...

FYI, as far as I know in at least the past few years the conventional advice given re: GPA inclusion on resume was to put limited law GPA on resume lest HR personnel at firms assume it's horrible and not pre-select (though admittedly this wouldn't be wise re: candidates applying from solid schools). Put UG GPA on there too, plus UG transcripts if transcripts are requested, not law transcripts typically. So I don't think it's changed. As a side note, I might forgo including GPA if it's really so bad and from a top school. Let the school, etc., speak for itself, not the single semester of grades, damn conventional advice. I'd probably do this myself, but it's a bit of a risk, though likely no bigger than eliciting an irrational visceral reaction for having a 'too low' law GPA on there.

And I second DF in that some serious IP folk come to this thing from many top schools, even schools like Berkeley where most IP firms arguably worth considering come in the fall regardless. Others just don't bother. Also, for anyone thinking about traveling from afar to the SFIPLA fair, realize it's a relatively small event. I personally would not attend it unless coming from CA or determined to land in SF bay area, the chances of which SFIPLA might raise a bit, but who knows. Regardless, all these events are cool to visit the cities.

My CSO advised either putting all GPAs or none (meaning UG and Law or none at all) - I was going to let the school speak for itself. The problem is that this year almost all the firms require transcripts so they don't need to guess - they have the numbers anyway!

[Anonymous User]

When I did plip as a 2L (3 yrs ago), I did not put law GPA on resume (around 2.5, T25), but I put undergrad GPA on resume (3.9, hard science). I believe I received 10 preselects. I got 2 call backs with the firms from my city. I ended up getting one offer from a firm from OCI.

When I did plip as a 3L (2 yrs ago), I put both law and undergrad GPAs on because I was able to get my law GPA up to a 3.0. I think I received 7 preselects, got 4 call backs in major markets, and received/accepted offer from plip.

When I went through plip both times, I do not think they requested transcripts. But I want to provide some anecdotal evidence for you guys. If you are just finishing up your first year with a horrible law GPA, there is still hope. Get your grades up your 2L year, and go through PLIP again.