Loyola PLIP 2013: Brace yourselves... Forum

[Jsa725]

Creating this thread to help guide all who, including myself, want them coveted interview spots this August. I hope that you all find some of what I post useful. If you have attended PLIP before, please share your experience with us newbs. Haben Sie vielen Dank! Thank you. Gracias. Merci pour ton aide.

Registered: ~1250;
Students w/ at least ONE interview: ~650

Results from TLSers
(GPA/Rank @ time of bidding, School, UG Degree, Pre-Select, Alts., Target Market, Work Experience)

3.59/Top 10%, T10, ChemE/BioChem/Chem, 13 PS, 6 Alt, CA, WE=0, addt'l info: 2/2 preselects on resume drops at 3.71
3.12/Top 50%, T1, BSME magna cum laude, 4 PS, 1 Alt, NYC/DC
T14, EE, 26 PS, 3 Alt
Top 5%, T1, B.S. Chem, 16 PS, 5 Alt, >5 yrs WE in pharma, NYC target (got a few firmwide, a few Chicago, one Palo Alto and my alts were Chicago and Palo Alto/San Fran)
Top 25%, T95, MSEE, 14 PS, 2 Alt., 8 years WE
Top 10% at T25. ChemE., 16 PS, 3 A, 4 years WE
Top 5-10%, T20, NO TECH DEGREE, 18 PS, 6 A, 4 years WE
Median, T14, BSME, 7 PS, 7 A, NYC , 2 yrs. WE non-tech
Top 25%, T14, CS, 26 PS, 2 Alt, >5 yrs WE, targeting SF
Below Median, T140s, MechE, 2PS, 2Alt, West Coast/ NY/DC (Pros. Only), 2yr WE prestigious engineering firm
3.4/Top 50% - Top 33%, T25, Life Sciences, 5 PS, 6A, NY/DC/PA
Top 10%, T14, ECE/CS , 24 PS, 1 A, 10+ yrs. WE, NY/DC
3.78, TTTT, Physics, 5 PS, 5 Alt., Target Midwest (Chicago, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan)
2.8, T10, Bio, 6 PS, 2 A, have some comp science WE.
Top 25%, TTTT, Half of a CS degree (gpa 3.7) that I've been getting during LS, 8 PS

I was once asked: "In a patent litigation, if there is a term in dispute and the parties cannot agree on its meaning, what is the primary source to use for interpretation?" I think that question is pretty hard for a rising 2L. The answer is the specification.

Another question that can trip you up involves details about your undergraduate institution, especially relating to sports (if it had a D1 program). Just be sure that if your program had something that made the national news, you can speak intelligibly about it.

Another guy said to me, first thing when I walked in: "Listen, you're qualified for this job, but so are the last 10 people I just spoke to. So give me a good reason I should hire you."

But the worst one I ever got was, first thing sitting down with the interviewer: "So, do you have any questions for me?" THAT was tough, because it was totally unexpected. So, make sure you have intelligent questions to ask (tailored to that firm, not generic).

Tell me about yourself?
Why did you go to law school?
Why are you interested in patent law/IP?
Patent prosecution or patent litigation?
Why are you interested in our firm?
Which office are you interested in?
Where are you from?
What other firms/cities are you applying to?
Are you willing to go to this other city you have never considered before simply because we need patent people there?
What did you like about your undergraduate degree?
Tell me about your undergraduate science research?
What questions do you have for us?

One firm terrified me with these: Describe to me an engineering problem you faced in your pre-law job and how you solved it. Answer this simple engineering question.

{to a former grad student} - Why law school now? Why did you not go through the technical specialist route? Why did you not want to stay in [field]?

Why are you interested in working in [city]? (I interviewed with firms from NYC, DC, and Boston, but only the Boston firms asked me this. They seem to want people who really want to live in Boston for a particular reason or have ties to the city. I have absolutely no ties, so I had to come up with some really specific reasons for wanting to live/work there.)

*****If you have any link, information, or experience that you want added to the OP, then feel free to PM it to me.*****
***if I have quoted you from another thread and want it removed, PM me***


Website: http://www.luc.edu/law/career/patent_students.html
Dates: Thursday, August 1 & Friday, August 2, 2013
Location: Chicago Embassy
Participating Employers 2012

IMPORTANT DATES FOR STUDENTS
Monday, March 4 Deadline for Student Registration
Monday, April 15 Students receive Symplicity passwords/bidding instructions
Tuesday, April 16 Student Bidding Begins
Thursday, May 2 Deadline for Student Bidding
Monday, June 24 Initial interview schedules available on Symplicity
Monday, June 24 - Wednesday, June 26 Interview Cancellation Period
Friday, June 28 Final Schedules available on Symplicity
Thursday, August 1 & Friday, August 2 2013 Patent Law Interview Program

Some typical questions/experiences that we would appreciate past PLIP Allstars sharing:

1) I am planning on transferring, how does that play out during the process?
2) I have ____ degree and ____ years WE and bid _______ and did well.
3) My GPA was not stellar but I did ____________ and was able to succeed
4) I have WE in the IT field but am not patbar eligible due to my UG degree; however, I was able to get interviews by doing __________
5) My LS was a T6,T14,T20,T50 and my GPA was _____ and I was able to secure ________
6) How did you approach the bidding process? How do you recommend we bid?
7) These firms ____________ look for _______ and __________ the most so be prepared for questions about ___________
8 ) Does it matter if I make my bids on day one versus making/changing bids on the last day to make bids? will the bids placed near the closing of bidding place me at a disadvantage?
9) The attorneys at __________firm really cared about XYZ but did not care so much about DEF
10) I was able to do ______________ while at PLIP and scored ## of extra interviews

----------------------------
From what I gather, bidding appropriately can have an impact. Obviously, nothing is guaranteed; however, getting our bidding strategies planned out, resume's polished, and PLIP questions answered early, can help alleviate the stress of this process. I have read that some firms receive 1300+ bids for 20-40 interview slots we must plan accordingly.

Useful Links

Patents:
Avery Index
DC's Top IP Lawyers 2011-12
IP Today's 2012 Top Patent Firms
The Patent Scorecard 2011
Law.com's 2011 Patent Litigation Survey
Managing Intellectual Property's Patent Survey 2012
Chambers Partners - Chambers Global > USA, Intellectual Property
Chambers Partners - Chambers USA > Intellectual Property (slightly different than the above)
Chambers Associate > Intellectual Property
2013 Vault Firm Rankings Intellectual Property
2013 Vault IP Boutiques

Overall:
2013 Vault Law 100
Law.com's The Associates Survey
ATL Career Center
Judged.com (nothing on most firms, but I occasionally find something helpful here)[/quote]

Other good OCI, employment links from TLSers that are useful
A guide to OCI callbacks - a great thread about the OCI process
"network like crazy at OCI" - What does this mean? - a great thread about hustling a jerb at OCI

Past PLIP Threads
Loyola Patent Fair 2012
Loyola PLIP thread for 2011

Interview Help, Tips, and Suggestions
Last week, I spoke with a recruiter at a V25 firm (office on west coast) specifically about resumes (about IP law in general, not just PLIP resumes) and what they look for. Here is what she told me based on her own experience reviewing resumes for her firm... essentially, what people have done in the past that can make your resume land in the "NO" pile.

Note: she says that by the time its all done, 2 recruiters + another 5 attorney's will have looked at the resume and, she said "they are all trained to catch mistakes."

1) do not use color in your resume
2) do not include a picture of yourself
3) do include all contact information: name, address, phone, email (make sure the email is correct. once, she sent an email for a grade request and got a bounceback reply. she decided it was not worth it to hunt the guy down to contact him and thus placed him in the "NO" pile)
4) if you transferred, include your 1L school on the resume (they do not like playing detective, and appreciate your being strait forward)
5) make sure resume is uniform: periods at the end of sentences, correct tense, good use of white space
6) do not make typographical errors!
7) interests section at the bottom is fine
8 ) do not bury important things/ details in the middle of the page... it may not get read

Sample Bid Strategies

Priority bids IMO (not in order):

-Firms with very large IP departments
-Firms in cities you have ties to
-Firms in your law school's city/that have lots of associates from your school
-Firms that specialize in your tech background (e.g. Fitzpatrick for bio people, west coast firms for EE/CompSci)
-Firms you just happen to like, for whatever arbitrary reason
-Elite firms/boutiques like Kirkland, Covington, Finnegan/Fish/Fitzpatrick for people with very good grades
-More standard boutiques like all of the Chicago "M" firms (it's uncanny how many of their names start with that letter) for people with worse grades but strong tech backgrounds

Do your research on NALP, firm sites, and Chambers to get a flavor for what firms are all about, what type of IP they handle (both w/r/t technical discipline and which of transactional/prosecution/litigation they do) and where they have locations. That'll allow you to maximize your chances at getting (m)any interviews.

Don't throw a hail mary at somewhere like WilmerHale or Kirkland if you're median at a T2, don't bid on a firm whose website suggests that they do nothing but bio if you're a mechanical/civil engineer, don't bid on a firm in say Seattle or Charlotte (for example) if you've never set foot in the city and have sub-top10% grades with nothing on your resume to suggest a connection to the city and/or region. Common sense will take you a long way in bidding successfully.

Competition's fierce, and research online/info from your CSO re: who has gotten offers and interviews in the past are going to be more valuable for an individual than any advice anyone can here give. Don't skimp on the research.

Advice

Another piece of advice from personal experience:
You should still apply directly to the firms that reject you at PLIP within a couple weeks of the program. It is important to remember that these firms need to select from hundreds, if not thousands, of resumes for what may be less than 50 interview slots. People will slip through the cracks, get overlooked, or get passed over simply because it isn't possible to interview anyone else. Although resume credentials are a good first indicator of employability, they are far from the end-all be-all. Firms may only come away from PLIP with a small handful of candidates worthy of a CB. If you didn't make the "first cut", you're not dead in the water.

I was not preselected or given an alternate slot for a V100 at PLIP. I applied independently via Email to the firm's recruiter and I got a very personal reply back, telling me: They were sorry they didn't get a chance to interview with me at PLIP, but they would be very interested in interviewing me. I set up a phone interview with them later that week.

This might be a dumb question, but when looking for firms with an office in the area that I want, I can search by State, but then also there are "firmwide" ones-- do I then have to research the firms to determine where these firmwide locations are?

Yep. Here are two easy ways to to that.

1) Their website will have a list of their offices, and you can then go through that office to see who is in the IP group. Alternatively, look at the IP group on their practice group page - most firms will list attorneys alphabetically rather than by location, but the page will usually also state which office they work in.

2) Search the firm on NALP. This will give you office locations (though not always all of them, so be careful) and also tell you how many associates/partners do IP in that office (this is sometimes inaccurate due to discrepancies in how firms classify people).

I will continue to make updates as I find more useful information.

[whatsthat]

Ah crap, I completely forgot about this. Says registration is closed and no late registrations, guess I am sol?

Did it close at the end of work day or something? I'm too used to ending dates meaning midnight.

[laxbrah420]

my first question is why can't a prestigious fair do their interviews on the weekend so people don't have to miss work? and my second question is what's better to do 1L summer: unpaid gov IP work or small firm paid non-ip work?

[Jsa725]

.

[Anonymous User]

#1 advice: I don't care who you are, if you registered then buy airline tickets now and pay the extra $15 for cancellation rights. You will save $200. In the off-chance that you don't get interviews, you lose $15.
#2 advice: whatever hotel "discount" they offer you isn't that great of a deal. Book a nearby room in advance.
#2 advice: do your research. Some firms hire for prosecution only. Some firms hire for litigation only. Find out which one, and when they interview you, say "I ONLY want to do (what this firm does) and I'm not really interested in (the other one)."

From Loyola 2012:
I have BS EE degree and 1 years WE
My LS was a T20 and my GPA was around 50% and I was able to secure 10 interviews and 2 callbacks.

[09042014]

#1 advice: I don't care who you are, if you registered then buy airline tickets now and pay the extra $15 for cancellation rights. You will save $200. In the off-chance that you don't get interviews, you lose $15.
#2 advice: whatever hotel "discount" they offer you isn't that great of a deal. Book a nearby room in advance.
#2 advice: do your research. Some firms hire for prosecution only. Some firms hire for litigation only. Find out which one, and when they interview you, say "I ONLY want to do (what this firm does) and I'm not really interested in (the other one)."

From Loyola 2012:
I have BS EE degree and 1 years WE
My LS was a T20 and my GPA was around 50% and I was able to secure 10 interviews and 2 callbacks.

Also do research about what types of patent work the firm does at that office. After I bid on a firm I realized they had literally zero EE/CS doods at that office. No surprised when I didn't get a preselect.

[Agent]

OP, height? I occasionally update that set of links: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2#p5427472

[englawyer]

#1 advice: I don't care who you are, if you registered then buy airline tickets now and pay the extra $15 for cancellation rights. You will save $200. In the off-chance that you don't get interviews, you lose $15.
#2 advice: whatever hotel "discount" they offer you isn't that great of a deal. Book a nearby room in advance.
#2 advice: do your research. Some firms hire for prosecution only. Some firms hire for litigation only. Find out which one, and when they interview you, say "I ONLY want to do (what this firm does) and I'm not really interested in (the other one)."

From Loyola 2012:
I have BS EE degree and 1 years WE
My LS was a T20 and my GPA was around 50% and I was able to secure 10 interviews and 2 callbacks.

+1 on avoiding hotel. If you are out of town go for airbnb.com , there are decent options right by the train in Chicago.

[09042014]

I wouldn't bother getting a hotel in advance. You can usually do "Name your own price" for cheap.

[bree]

A few pieces of advice:

1) If you have back to back interviews, you won't have time to prepare in between. You'll just be walking from one hotel room to another hotel room. You may even be late to the second interview. If you're really worried about being late to a later interview, tell the earlier interview that you need to be out by a certain time.

2) Use all of your bids. You'll have more bids than you need. No point in holding back. Bid more liberally than you'd otherwise think is in your expected range. For whatever reason, I got interviews at firms at PLIP that I could not get at my school's OCI. If you don't get an interview at PLIP, bid again at OCI.

3) Try to figure out what your interviewer is interested in. Attorneys like to talk about themselves and about their work. If you can thread a question into the interview about the Attorney, it usually works very well. (e.g., "I noticed you did X, can you tell me what that was like ...")

4) If you're eligible, be knowledgeable about the Patent Bar, even if you haven't taken it. That is, tell people I'm planning to take it OR that the new AIA is integrated, etc etc

5) Know a thing or two about recent Patent Law Cases. You do not need to be an expert. You just need to show that you keep up with the news (e.g., smartphone wars like Apple v. Samsung, patent trolls/NPEs, AIA, Pharma Patents going offline) and that you're thinking about some of the big picture things around patents. I always liked to ask attorneys (especially if they worked on related cases) "when do you think the smartphone wars will shake out and how?"

6) Bid on firms/offices that do work in your science/engineering background. For example, if it's a san diego office, there's a good chance there's a biotech component.

7) For lP Litigation, ask about District Court Litigation vs. ITC. The ITC can be a very difficult forum in which to practice because it's so fast-moving. It's important to think about this NOW rather than LATER because it will greatly affect your life if you do work in patent litigation.

If you're not 100% sold on IP, pick a firm that will allow you to work in non-IP areas. I know it's a tough job market and IP is an area in demand, but honestly you never know what you'll eventually want to do. If you go to Fish/Finnegan/Kenyon/Knobbe, you're committing yourself to IP, for better or for worse. It's not always easy to know beforehand what you're getting yourself into. That being said, if you are 100% IP, then go all out. It's a wonderful time to be interested in IP.

9) Don't worry too much about technical know-how - at least for the interviews. I don't think I was asked a single technical issue. I'm an EE person, so maybe it's different for BIO/CHEM?

10) If you're trying to get extra interviews, take advantage of the networking night the day before and visit hospitality suites. It never hurts to try to get more interviews and you never know.

[Anonymous User]

if I am at HS and have straight Ps, should I worry about getting interviews? obviously I am trying harder this time around (in the fall I really slacked off and spent a lot of time socializing/drinking). i went to an ivy for undergrad and have a masters. will that make up for Ps?

also-i'm more interested in a diverse firm, not one that only does IP.

[09042014]

if I am at HS and have straight Ps, should I worry about getting interviews? obviously I am trying harder this time around (in the fall I really slacked off and spent a lot of time socializing/drinking). i went to an ivy for undergrad and have a masters. will that make up for Ps?

also-i'm more interested in a diverse firm, not one that only does IP.

What is your degree in? If it's desirable you'll do fine. Even if it isn't you'll probably be okay.

A patent prosecution heavy firm the P's won't hurt at all.

Why do you want a diverse firm? You really only get to work in one specialty for the most part.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a 1L registered for the 2013 PILP. I would much appreciate any advice from past PLIPers.

My bkgnd: minimal work exp in engineering/research, summer externship at the PTO, top 50% at T14, master's in EE from a respectable program, a bs in a hard science from an ivy

I figure I have a decent shot at a boutique, and maybe even big law litigation, but I want to do whatever will help me get the most exposure to all aspects of the field, rather than getting pigeonholed at age 26 when im not sure about pros vs lit. I think I'm up for the lit lifestyle (don't mind working long hours) but I'm more interested in what will be personally fulfilling and more interesting. I will add preemptively here that, yes, i should probably enter another field if I'm looking for something personally fulfilling; let's pretend for now that those are the only two options. Any recommended firms or bidding strategies I should go for? Fwiw, my oci is in the northeast but I want to be in SF or SV ideally.

[09042014]

I'm a 1L registered for the 2013 PILP. I would much appreciate any advice from past PLIPers.

My bkgnd: minimal work exp in engineering/research, summer externship at the PTO, top 50% at T14, master's in EE from a respectable program, a bs in a hard science from an ivy

I figure I have a decent shot at a boutique, and maybe even big law litigation, but I want to do whatever will help me get the most exposure to all aspects of the field, rather than getting pigeonholed at age 26 when im not sure about pros vs lit. I think I'm up for the lit lifestyle (don't mind working long hours) but I'm more interested in what will be personally fulfilling and more interesting. I will add preemptively here that, yes, i should probably enter another field if I'm looking for something personally fulfilling; let's pretend for now that those are the only two options. Any recommended firms or bidding strategies I should go for? Fwiw, my oci is in the northeast but I want to be in SF or SV ideally.

Bid on every sf/sv firm. Get tons of interviews and offers. You'll do great.

[englawyer]

I'm a 1L registered for the 2013 PILP. I would much appreciate any advice from past PLIPers.

My bkgnd: minimal work exp in engineering/research, summer externship at the PTO, top 50% at T14, master's in EE from a respectable program, a bs in a hard science from an ivy

I figure I have a decent shot at a boutique, and maybe even big law litigation, but I want to do whatever will help me get the most exposure to all aspects of the field, rather than getting pigeonholed at age 26 when im not sure about pros vs lit. I think I'm up for the lit lifestyle (don't mind working long hours) but I'm more interested in what will be personally fulfilling and more interesting. I will add preemptively here that, yes, i should probably enter another field if I'm looking for something personally fulfilling; let's pretend for now that those are the only two options. Any recommended firms or bidding strategies I should go for? Fwiw, my oci is in the northeast but I want to be in SF or SV ideally.

pm me re: SF/SV !

[Anonymous User]

If I'm patent bar eligible but just via a microbiology UG and have a bad UG GPA, should I just focus on bidding general lit firms?

[09042014]

If I'm patent bar eligible but just via a microbiology UG and have a bad UG GPA, should I just focus on bidding general lit firms?

I would. How bad is bad?

[Anonymous User]

2.7 overall with like 2.5 major GPA?

[09042014]

2.7 overall with like 2.5 major GPA?

What range of L school and what grades did you get first semester?

[Anonymous User]

T25, 42%

[09042014]

T25, 42%

Yea I'd probably try for GP lit firms. But if you have extra bids, I'd try some of the patent heavy firms.

[Anonymous User]

T25, 42%

Yea I'd probably try for GP lit firms. But if you have extra bids, I'd try some of the patent heavy firms.

I was in a similar situation as the anon quoted after my first semester 1L year: only a B.S. in bio with a major gpa ~2.9 (but I double majored so overall gpa was much higher) and T25, 40%. I actually had better luck with the patent heavy firms than the GP firms, especially with the bigger IP boutiques that do a lot of pharma litigation.

[Phife Dawg]

T25, 42%

Yea I'd probably try for GP lit firms. But if you have extra bids, I'd try some of the patent heavy firms.

I was in a similar situation as the anon quoted after my first semester 1L year: only a B.S. in bio with a major gpa ~2.9 (but I double majored so overall gpa was much higher) and T25, 40%. I actually had better luck with the patent heavy firms than the GP firms, especially with the bigger IP boutiques that do a lot of pharma litigation.

Any shot you could PM me to talk more about this?

[Anonymous User]

if I am at HS and have straight Ps, should I worry about getting interviews? obviously I am trying harder this time around (in the fall I really slacked off and spent a lot of time socializing/drinking). i went to an ivy for undergrad and have a masters. will that make up for Ps?

also-i'm more interested in a diverse firm, not one that only does IP.

What is your degree in? If it's desirable you'll do fine. Even if it isn't you'll probably be okay.

A patent prosecution heavy firm the P's won't hurt at all.

Why do you want a diverse firm? You really only get to work in one specialty for the most part.

it is an engineering degree but not EE or computer related so i guess not as desirable?

i am not 100% set on patent law. don't think i'd wanna do prosecution. but i really have no idea and i don't wanna be stuck in something before trying it out.

[togepi]

tag