V100 firm vs. NLJ 250 firm for 1L SA

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Anonymous User
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V100 firm vs. NLJ 250 firm for 1L SA

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:49 am

Hey guys. I am fortunate enough to pick between a 1L SA position at a major-market satellite office for a V100 firm (~1500 attorneys) and the home office of a smaller firm with about 250 attorneys. They are both in the same city. I am a 1L.

The NLJ250 firm has a very specialized transactional practice area that I am super interested in. The firm is world-recognized for that practice. The firm also has other transactional practices, as well as a litigation practice, but they are not anything special. They seem to want me to narrow-in on an area when I come back for 2L. They allow split summers for 2L.

The V100 firm is global and does everything. I would be working at a major-market satellite office of about 150 attorneys. It has big clients and a diverse practice area. They encourage trying out all practice areas as a 1L and 2L. I don't know if they allow split summers for 2L. (This is a separate question -- is this appropriate to ask?)

I really enjoy the culture at both places. Pay is slightly higher at the V100 firm than the NLJ250 firm, but not enough to be a swaying factor.

I can't decide because I am really into the specialty practice area, but I don't want to pigeon-hole myself. My parents are really pushing (not that it matters) to go to the "bigger firm" because "you can always go from big to small; not the other way around." My only fear is that I will miss the one opportunity to work for this special area that really aligns with my interests. But what the hell do I know what I'm interested in? I am a freaking 1L.

Any input would be appreciated.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: V100 firm vs. NLJ 250 firm for 1L SA

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hey guys. I am fortunate enough to pick between a 1L SA position at a major-market satellite office for a V100 firm (~1500 attorneys) and the home office of a smaller firm with about 250 attorneys. They are both in the same city. I am a 1L.

The NLJ250 firm has a very specialized transactional practice area that I am super interested in. The firm is world-recognized for that practice. The firm also has other transactional practices, as well as a litigation practice, but they are not anything special. They seem to want me to narrow-in on an area when I come back for 2L. They allow split summers for 2L.

The V100 firm is global and does everything. I would be working at a major-market satellite office of about 150 attorneys. It has big clients and a diverse practice area. They encourage trying out all practice areas as a 1L and 2L. I don't know if they allow split summers for 2L. (This is a separate question -- is this appropriate to ask?)

I really enjoy the culture at both places. Pay is slightly higher at the V100 firm than the NLJ250 firm, but not enough to be a swaying factor.

I can't decide because I am really into the specialty practice area, but I don't want to pigeon-hole myself. My parents are really pushing (not that it matters) to go to the "bigger firm" because "you can always go from big to small; not the other way around." My only fear is that I will miss the one opportunity to work for this special area that really aligns with my interests. But what the hell do I know what I'm interested in? I am a freaking 1L.

Any input would be appreciated.


out of curiosity, what is your school and class rank?

I read this through, why wouldn't you just accept both and split the summer? that seems like the best option to me

great job. it sounds like you're in the ideal spot

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Re: V100 firm vs. NLJ 250 firm for 1L SA

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:13 pm

I'm a diversity at a T2, top 5% w/ WE.

The firms have not told me I can split 1L summer. They have both offered 10-week programs :\

bdubs
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Re: V100 firm vs. NLJ 250 firm for 1L SA

Postby bdubs » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:09 pm

The T2 may kill you for 2L OCI if you don't stay in the top 5%. I would choose as though you are picking a full time employer. Look at their past offer rates and career outlooks. The bigger name and more diverse practice set may be worth sacrificing something you're interested in.

keg411
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Re: V100 firm vs. NLJ 250 firm for 1L SA

Postby keg411 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a diversity at a T2, top 5% w/ WE.

The firms have not told me I can split 1L summer. They have both offered 10-week programs :\


Check the offer rates, but based on this, I think you should take the v100 and not look back. If you had top grades at a T14, I would probably say go the other way (and even if you want to transfer, I still say take the V100).

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Re: V100 firm vs. NLJ 250 firm for 1L SA

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:53 pm

keg411 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm a diversity at a T2, top 5% w/ WE.

The firms have not told me I can split 1L summer. They have both offered 10-week programs :\


Check the offer rates, but based on this, I think you should take the v100 and not look back. If you had top grades at a T14, I would probably say go the other way (and even if you want to transfer, I still say take the V100).


OP here. Thank you for your inputs. The offer rates are 100% for both firms according to recent NALP data.

After talking to my parents and soul-searching, I am leaning on taking the V100. The "niche" field at the N250 firm is REALLY niche... so it's probably not worth it in case I ever wanted to switch.

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guano
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Re: V100 firm vs. NLJ 250 firm for 1L SA

Postby guano » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:30 pm

If one position is a regular SA and the other is diversity, choose the regular SA. Diversity positions have no guarantee, and often no expectation, of future employment.

mr.hands
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Re: V100 firm vs. NLJ 250 firm for 1L SA

Postby mr.hands » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:38 pm

guano wrote:If one position is a regular SA and the other is diversity, choose the regular SA. Diversity positions have no guarantee, and often no expectation, of future employment.


Yeah this is my understanding of diversity hires too.

Can someone else confirm this?

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Re: V100 firm vs. NLJ 250 firm for 1L SA

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:45 pm

mr.hands wrote:
guano wrote:If one position is a regular SA and the other is diversity, choose the regular SA. Diversity positions have no guarantee, and often no expectation, of future employment.


Yeah this is my understanding of diversity hires too.

Can someone else confirm this?


I can't confirm for certain but from what I've seen anecdotally those who had 1L diversity positions at my school (T-25) often didn't get brought back for 2L employment, much less permanent post-grad offers

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Re: V100 firm vs. NLJ 250 firm for 1L SA

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
mr.hands wrote:
guano wrote:If one position is a regular SA and the other is diversity, choose the regular SA. Diversity positions have no guarantee, and often no expectation, of future employment.


Yeah this is my understanding of diversity hires too.

Can someone else confirm this?


I can't confirm for certain but from what I've seen anecdotally those who had 1L diversity positions at my school (T-25) often didn't get brought back for 2L employment, much less permanent post-grad offers


I'm a law school graduate, and my experience confirmed this.

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Re: V100 firm vs. NLJ 250 firm for 1L SA

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:55 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
mr.hands wrote:
guano wrote:If one position is a regular SA and the other is diversity, choose the regular SA. Diversity positions have no guarantee, and often no expectation, of future employment.


Yeah this is my understanding of diversity hires too.

Can someone else confirm this?


I can't confirm for certain but from what I've seen anecdotally those who had 1L diversity positions at my school (T-25) often didn't get brought back for 2L employment, much less permanent post-grad offers


I'm a law school graduate, and my experience confirmed this.


This may be true. But for the purposes of this discussion, both firms told me their expectation is to bring the 1L hires back for 2L and permanent offer. Their past diversity candidates confirmed this (I interviewed with one, and a few others are alums of my T2).

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thelawyler
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Re: V100 firm vs. NLJ 250 firm for 1L SA

Postby thelawyler » Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:35 pm

From my experience with small market diversity programs, they do offer their SAs and diversity candidates in the same manner. In fact, some even hold the "scholarship" bonus that is released for the 2L year on the condition that you go back 2L year.

I think diversity hires for major markets like NYC and smaller markets are probably done a bit differently with different expectations. But I may be completely wrong.
Last edited by thelawyler on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: V100 firm vs. NLJ 250 firm for 1L SA

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:39 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
mr.hands wrote:
guano wrote:If one position is a regular SA and the other is diversity, choose the regular SA. Diversity positions have no guarantee, and often no expectation, of future employment.


Yeah this is my understanding of diversity hires too.

Can someone else confirm this?


I can't confirm for certain but from what I've seen anecdotally those who had 1L diversity positions at my school (T-25) often didn't get brought back for 2L employment, much less permanent post-grad offers


I'm a law school graduate, and my experience confirmed this.

This is not always the case. My firm hired diversity 1Ls and treated them the same as the rest of us. I'm not sure which is the norm but I know for sure that at least some firms don't differentiate.

005618502
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Re: V100 firm vs. NLJ 250 firm for 1L SA

Postby 005618502 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
I can't confirm for certain but from what I've seen anecdotally those who had 1L diversity positions at my school (T-25) often didn't get brought back for 2L employment, much less permanent post-grad offers


I'm a law school graduate, and my experience confirmed this.

This is not always the case. My firm hired diversity 1Ls and treated them the same as the rest of us. I'm not sure which is the norm but I know for sure that at least some firms don't differentiate.


what I have heard is that firms will bring on a diversity candidate who may not have the numbers or school to be there and give them a chance to prove themselves. It can be an uphill battle because you are often being compared to people with better grades from better schools. I would agree with taking one if it is not a "diversity" position and it is based only on your merit (are non-URM students with similar numbers also getting the offers?)

If both are diversity go with which ever place you liked better and connected with more. I would go with the V-100. What your parents told you sounds about right (good for them, usually parents who are not in the profession dont know what they are talking about). Good luck, wherever you go, just plan on working hard to turn in good work!

Also, that 100% offer rate does not mean anything for 1L positions, those numbers are for their 2Ls that they offered permanent positions to (please, someone correct me if I am wrong here)




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